We'd love to discover new bands.

We're going to discover, but we're also going to educate today.

And educate means Barry, Lord Taco, and Brian are going to be educated about EDM music.

Something we know a little about, but not a lot.

Here we go.

Hey everybody.

Welcome back to the what podcast.

We love to explore.

We love to experiment.

We love to try new things.

We like to admit we don't know everything.

And today is all about education, exploration, and discovery.

And we have a special guest.

As I've alluded to in the past, we want to learn about EDM music.

And we're going to do a couple of episodes.

And this is just one.

I'm Barry.

That's Brian.

That's Lord Taco with us today is a special guest, Daniel.

You might've heard Lord Taco reach out.

Kind of challenging.

If, if, am I right?

Am I, am I let you introduce?

It was a little on purpose because, you know, we've been saying that we don't know anything

about EDM for years.

And Daniel's been saying, have me on the show, have me on the show.

So we, we called him out and here he is.

So thanks for coming.

By God, you're on the show.

By God, you're on the show.

So what we're going to talk about, and like I said, we're going to do a couple of episodes

on EDM because it's such a huge part of Bonnaroo and it's such a huge part of the music festival

world.

Yeah.

I recently talked to a local guy here in Chattanooga.

His name's Justin Casey does stage production.

Barry, you know him and not, not just for here in town, but he does it for Snoop Dogg is

his biggest client.

So that's about all you need to bring up.

But EDM is something they've done more and more and more.

And we briefly spoke about it last year and they just, they, meaning his, him and his

team love that, that, that production angle.

Like, I mean, I, he didn't quite say this, but basically a rock show bores him.

You know, when they have an EDM show, they have anything in that, in that realm, they

just, the creativity is endless.

So we'll bring him on eventually to talk about that from a production standpoint.

I'm not even talking about how the music is created.

So that's going to be fun to go down that road too, but just what in the world is this

stuff and it's like, it's not new.

It's been around for a while.

It's been around for decades and yeah, just interested to talk about it.

Daniel, thank you.

First of all, we're going to thank you guys for having me on long time.

Yeah.

What year are you repping on the roo shirt there?

This is the 2022 year.

Oh, okay.

All right.

Nice.

So we're going to, we're going to dive deep.

And like I said, I want to do, we had several people reach out and want to be guests and

trust me, we plan to have you, we're waiting for a, we're in the woods lineup and we're

going to have a whole nother panel to talk specifically about probably acts on the Bonnaroo

lineup.

But like I said, Daniel, you, you've been, you know, poking taco for a while on Reddit.

And so we wanted to do this.

So all right.

So we're going to begin.

First of all, this is not my genre.

I don't think it's Brian's.

I don't think it's Russ's.

We're going to admit that we're trying very hard not to be the old man, get off my lawn

type.

Yeah, too late.

I also don't think we're as far removed from this music as we might think.

So all right, Daniel, EDM is a, is an umbrella, right?

I mean, it's electronic dance music is what it stands for.

But as we've learned over the years, it now encompasses so many different genres.

It's not one type.

Correct.

So I'll, I'll let you go ahead and correct.

And I'll also add that within the United States, the two biggest genres of EDM are house music

and the larger range of bass music.

There's some genres that are bigger in other countries.

But when we talk about the main artists that come to US festivals, the vast majority of

them either fall under the house umbrella or.

How do you define it?

I would say that as a, as a whole and in totality, a lot of electronic dance music, that's what

EDM stands for is a genre that really follows the falls under songs that have a higher BPM

or beats for minutes with a lot of electronic elements.

Also other elements can be added in various forms like house music or drum and bass music

or liquid drum and bass music can all have a steady beat that's kind of consistent throughout.

But we also have some other genres that have a wide range of beats within them as.

I don't know how far Daniel, you go back with this, with this stuff, as far as from like

a historian kind of aspect.

I'm not expecting you to be that, but I remember, you know, from the nineties, it was rave.

I'll just call it rave culture was starting to build in the United States and it started

in the eighties, probably maybe even in the seventies in the UK and certain areas in Europe.

And like my life with the thrill kill cult, uh, lords of acid that were just all of a

sudden, that's what youth wanted to be involved in.

And it had a lot to do with recreational drug use.

Let's just be honest.

We'll get back to that another time.

That's not the point here.

And I was sucked into it for a few minutes and I don't even, it was such a flash in the

pan of a phase of mine.

How much has music from those like those two stick out to me is almost legendary names,

thrill kill cult and lords of acid.

Where are we now?

24 plus 25 years later from that timeframe, as far as how the music has evolved, is it

roughly the same?

Is it, is it, is it a completely different sound?

I mean, that's a pretty wide open question.

I know.

And I, let me jump in real quick cause I'm older than all of you.

I think it goes even back for it's rap.

I mean, it's that's, this is what rap was.

It was DJs.

It was two turntables and a microphone.

I mean, it was two guys with a turntable hip hop.

Yeah.

Taking a beats, you know, from a, from a platter and mixing them together.

I mean, when I hear EDM, that's what I hear is an artist and I'll go ahead and call him

an artist, you know, whatever hearing something else, something that someone else did and

putting two things together or three things together.

So go ahead.

I jumped into your question, but I mean, to me, that's what, that's what I hear.

I agree with that completely, but just those two specific bands in particular, because

to me, they were the biggest of that timeframe.

What, what, where, where is it now to then?

I would say that we're kind of seeing both ends of the spectrum now because of the improvements

of technology.

It has become easier where people aren't having to do as much on their own in terms of individual

sound bits and putting it together in the orchestrating of all of it with modern technology

and the things that, that DJs are using these days.

It's become easier to make the same things.

So within that we're all, we're seeing some stuff that's simpler and just getting like,

there's a method to the madness in terms of making a hip hop song or making a hip rap

song and a lot of it follows a kind of similar pattern.

And we do see that in EDM some, but we also see some artists that with the expansion of

this technology are able, are able to take it to new levels in places we hadn't seen

in the past as well.

Daniel, go ahead.

Let's jump it.

Cause I can already hear people listening like, who is this guy?

Tell us a little bit about you.

What is your interest in this music?

Do you DJ?

Do you create your own?

I've always been interested, but I had in terms of musical talent, I wasn't blessed

as much in that field as, as some others.

So I mean, it's always been something that intrigued me because of how much passion I

had about the genre and music in general, but it's not necessarily been something that

with, with limited attempts that I've had any success with personally.

Gotcha.

I can't play the radio.

I mean, I'll go ahead and say it.

So how long has this been a genre of music you've been narrowed in on?

That's been something that you've been passionate about a few years, 10 years, 20 years.

So I'm 31 years old and I lived in Switzerland in 2006 and 2005 through 2007.

Then, when music was coming out through Limewire and all other, the platform, so we got music

on back then a lot.

I was really introduced to electronic music then.

And so one of the first songs I heard was by Alice DJ.

So I guess that would make.

How many, how many Bonnaroo's have you been to?

This year will be my fifth.

So when Bonnaroo, that's about the time that they switched, right?

That's about the time the other became dedicated.

I was thinking about that last night and forgot to Google it when the other stage became an

official official thing from the other tent.

Was it 18?

Taka, was it your first year?

18 was my first year.

Was it that year?

But I think, well, because before that they still had the other stage, right?

But yeah, okay.

Calliope was still a big part of it too, right?

Yeah, it was after.

17 was my first year and the other was there that year.

So it was okay.

Okay.

So for people who were just jumping in and we have to remind ourselves that, you know,

half of the Bonnaroo crowd is new every year.

The other stage used to be just another tent.

It was this, that and the other.

And then 19 or so it became completely dedicated to EDM music all day, all night.

And I remember it was kind of a big deal, Brian, right?

I mean, us old farts were like, what the hell?

Yeah.

Well, you took away one of our stages, first of all.

And so, yeah, I mean, I've seen many, many shows on the other tent far of corner up towards

when you head out towards the damn clock tower, the mirror ball tower.

Yeah, for sure.

And when they made that move, a lot of us were like, well, okay, that's cool.

I mean, said it very sarcastically.

And it wasn't a surprise at that time necessarily because the EDM music was starting to get

in more and more.

Like the first time I saw Pretty Lights, which I'd like to talk about what we were expecting

from that show this year before we get out here today.

But first time I saw him, I believe was 2011, 2012.

Was it that far ago?

And it was just like in the middle of just center.

I don't might have been on an actual stage proper, but I was immediately not, I'm not

going to say hook because that's totally wrong word, but I was, I was drawn in because I

recognized what I was hearing kind of, you know, kind of.

And is Pretty Lights a representative of this whole genre, Daniel, or is that just the one

we all know the name of?

So I would say that Pretty Lights is kind of going an entirely different route altogether

in the modern version of the band.

I would say that Pretty Lights is the closest thing to a modern jam band as one can see.

That makes sense.

Yeah.

Cause I was, I was watching while I was just taking some notes last night, I was watching

a YouTube show.

I don't know where it was from, but it was professionally a professional video.

And I got that feel.

I got that little bit of a jam band feel.

And I want to come back to that jam band thing.

Just not, not quite yet.

But what do we, is Pretty Lights, is this, is he as big as I think he is as far, or in

the crowd or in the, in the scene, is it kind of like, ah, that's yesterday's news?

Because of the tour that he had in 2023 and the reception of that tour, he is definitely

him and the larger band as a whole, the print with the Pretty Lights band.

They're definitely with, at least within the United States, a top five name for, for electronic

acts that people are talking about.

Yeah.

All right.

So, so a little bit evolution because just because we brought it up or I brought it up.

So you know, it went from Bass Nectar, you know, whatever.

Skrillex.

Skrillex, you know, Bass Nectar, I'm a huge fan.

Cause of Frenzy is one of my favorite, you know, despite everything he's done and, and

he should be, you know, whatever.

That's a whole different topic.

But I loved that song.

To Google that.

I know.

Yeah, whatever.

But I mean, so it went from an act, a couple of acts on the lineup, like you said, 2011,

2012, Pretty Lights.

And most people thought of it as bass, you know, the, and then the oomps, oomps, oomps,

as we joked about last week.

But you created a couple of playlists for us, which we'll reference and link here.

The music has evolved greatly, correct?

So there are many sub genres within EDM, enough so that they put, they've created their own

stage.

So that's why we're talking about it.

A lot of it, I mean, it had a specific thing for, for some of us old farts, it's that bass

thing.

It's that bass drop or the oomps, oomps, oomps.

That's what we think about, but it's a whole lot more, right?

So in the early 2010s, we had Big Room and, and a lot and Dubstep and some newer things

that are kind of coming onto the scene this year.

Drum and bass is getting more and more popular in the US again, and within the last couple

of years, it's really, really popular in the UK in that area.

But drum and bass has made a big comeback.

And within the last year or two, bass house has become really, really big with the combination

of bass music and house music where we're having that steady house beat, but it's more

in your face and added a bass element to it as well.

And two artists from the lineup this year that kind of have some of that bass house

element or iso, exo and knock too.

Yeah.

I remember I've told this story many times.

Early on, probably 2010, whatever, I think it was Bass Nectar, whatever year he was there,

he did like a 2am set and my God, Brian, you were probably there.

I mean, my heart stopped.

Whatever, whatever bass note they hit.

Oh my goodness.

I don't remember that necessarily.

If it was at 2am, there's a reason for not remembering that.

But Bass Nectar's played here locally and I was within a mile, like almost literally

within like a very short, but still far enough distance from where it was happening here

locally and it was just, it was, it was bone rattling.

Yeah.

Some of that, some of that, the interest was because it was almost like technology was

like, cause you could, you know, that was the interest.

It was like, Oh my God, they can drop a note that will literally make my heart stop.

And then you had people like girl talk who would come in and, you know, mix, put things

together that were familiar.

And part of the fun was, I know that song.

I know that beat.

I know that's what got me into Pretty Lights at first was that I got, I think there was

a Nirvana sample and I was like, huh, hell's that, you know, which I'm sorry.

I didn't mean to, if you're going somewhere with that bear.

No, no.

I was just listening to Daniel's playlist and Gaudier is one of the, the songs that

is now being mixed.

And I'm like, Oh my, that's, that's, we've come that far.

I mean, that's what a five year old song, six year old song.

And all of a sudden that's been redone.

I think that song is a decade old.

Yeah.

So I'm old.

Forgive me.

Time flies.

Forgive me.

Well, so to that, to that point, Daniel, what, how much of this from an industry standpoint,

how much of this is sampling versus create complete, um, original creation and compositions?

Does that even exist or is this just a sampled world?

Like like most times, when you think of an artist like dead mouse, uh, a lot of the stuff

that he's doing is on programs like Ableton where he's, but he didn't have a musical background.

So he drew in every single note.

So he would, he didn't, he wasn't able like artists can use a keyboard to play it as if

it was a piano or as if it was another instrument.

And when they have a musical background, it's a lot easier for them to just play the keys

as if their notes and plug that in and use their own samples with the notes that they're

playing from their musical background.

But dead mouse actually had to draw every single bar of his songs because of his musical

background not being what others are.

So he's an example of someone that's making everything and drawing everything and doing

everything himself.

Whereas art, an artist like pretty lights or a lot of the artists in, um, the file those

records take over that will have linked that playlist.

They use a lot of samples from, from past songs and past artists, but with their own

spin in terms of changing the samples, altering the samples, making them just, it's gotten

to the point where samples are a half of a second just in, in people are sampling a half

of a second, um, in order to take things, um, in, uh, in an, in a song that Diplo used,

they, uh, that they used, they used a Justin Bieber sample that was one second long and

used it throughout the song.

Um, just as, just as one part of that, but sampling has come to the point where they're

using more and more samples to create more and more unique sounds that have never heard.

This is a hundred percent old man question. Um, how much of that do you know when you,

when you hear stuff like that, are you like Brian and I, and I assume Russ where you're,

you're listening and you're picking out, Oh, I know where that's from. Or do you care?

Uh,

Great question.

So when it's, uh, music that I've heard before or music that's been made within my lifetime,

a lot of the times I have an ear for it and can hear it. I would say it an act that uses

a lot of older samples that I in turn look up because I want to know about the artists

they're sampling and want to know kind of the history behind it. But they use a lot

of samples from the fifties and sixties and seventies from old bits of, of songs from

everywhere in the world. So from, from countries and music that I've, that I've never actively

listened to and they'll pick, they'll pick samples from anywhere and ever.

I remember interviewing George Clinton from P-Funk, uh, who was at one time was the most

sampled artist of all time. And I was like, are you, does it piss you off that these people

are sampling you? And he said, no, as long as I get paid, which was a funny answer.

That sounds like a George Clinton answer.

But I don't know. Part of me, and again, it's an old man thing. Part of me is like, if I

like that sound like Gautier, 10 years or going back to the seventies with the, you

know, blues or R&B, part of me is like, why don't I just go back and listen to the original?

Um, but then part of me is like, okay, so some, somebody in a room by himself with a

laptop put this together. Um, and then part of me today is that's pretty clever. I get

what you did there. You know what I mean? Um, five, 10 years ago when the other became

the EDM, it was, it was, everything sounded very similar to me, to my ears. I can say

the same thing.

I don't, I don't, I didn't hear that. The playlist that you put together, Daniel, I

don't hear that. I hear, I mean, I, I hear, I recognize Gautier and I recognize a lot

of the songs, but the, the sounds are a whole lot different. It's pretty creative is what

I'm hearing. Right? I mean,

And there are some genres that are very, very similar. Some people really like a sub genre

called rhythm, but it has a similar beat. And to me, all the songs kind of sound the

same and it's not something that necessarily I enjoy, but I do know people that do enjoy

it. And one of the artists on the lineup that kind of falls within that is Sudden Death.

And there's a lot of people that really, really like a familiar head banging pattern and really,

really are into that music and can go to a stage and listen to that all day every day.

But just for me, uh, with an EDM, I do like you're talking about, like things that have

more samples, um, more tracks from, uh, more uniqueness, uh, instrumentation even in it,

but that's really the, that's really what, uh, I enjoy them. So I'm on, I'm on a similar.

All right. Let's, let's do this. Let's take a, take a breath. I kind of feel like, uh,

we jumped in and it was like, Hey Daniel, here's a hundred questions. You, you had to

have been thinking about this. What, what message or what story or what, when you knew

you were going to do this, what were you hoping to be able to share and, and, and say, cause

I know Brian and I've had a bunch of questions right away. And, and I mean, I think it's

all legitimate, but, uh, I took some notes on the last three years just on bass versus

house and total electronic artists in general, and kind of did some research there just to

see where we're at.

Yeah. Yeah. What'd you run? What'd you find? What'd you run into?

Um, I went back to 2022 because we obviously didn't have 2021 or 2020 and 2019 is a long

time. So I really looked at the last three years in 2022, there were 12 bait. So what

I used for, to determine, uh, big acts because house music is bigger than base music. I used

2 million listeners on Spotify for house acts and 1 million for bass acts is usually if,

because the genre is, is smaller as a whole artists that get less listens are still as

well known. It's just houses more internationally known, more people listen to house music.

So there's a higher threshold for what a well known house artist, but in 2022 there were

12 base acts, uh, 13 house acts and, uh, seven other acts that, that were, that don't necessarily

fall distinctly in one of those two areas. Um, and then in 2023 there were 13 base acts,

eight house acts and eight other acts. The big difference being in 2022, there were nine

big house acts and two big base acts. And then in 2023 there were six big, which was

last year, there were six big base acts and five big house acts. So even though we, so

last year there were more big base acts and, and base acts in general. And then the year

before there was a little bit more balanced with the lineup, but a lot of the big names

were house artists. And this year, sorry, go ahead, Daniel. This year we've kind of

seen a drop off altogether where there's only four base acts. So a lot of people that really

like base music are, are not as happy with this year's lineup because it's kind of dropped,

it's kind of dropped off entirely to where there's only four names. There are a lot of

house acts this year. There's 12 and seven other acts. And in totality before we're wearing

the woods, there's only 23 EDM acts this year when we saw 30 and 29. So there has been a

big drop off in EDM from the last two years.

All right. So base acts, we know everybody can figure out what that is. That's the, the

base drops and your heart stops and yeah, you feel it in your chest. House acts, how

do you define?

So house acts have a similar beat to them. And a lot of the time, the easy way to oversimplify

it is that they have a boots and cat beat to them. So that's the, yeah. Yeah. And that's

a lot of samples, right? There's going to be a lot of, a lot of clips and samples that

you're going to recognize from other songs and there are within house music. Tech houses

become very popular, which is what Fisher follows up under. And we have some other,

and Oliver Heldens is been on the scene for 10 years and falls under a wide range of house

acts. And then I talk.

So sorry, sorry. So is pretty lights a house act?

I would say that pretty lights at this point doesn't necessarily fall underneath.

So an other, so an other then. Okay.

They've gotten to the point where they're playing so many instruments live and they're

using so much sampling that it's different that it can't really fall underneath either

of those umbrellas.

Well, that goes to explain why I'm, I like pretty lights is because it's got so many

different elements of things that I actually recognize and like that I'm used to as opposed

to when you said dead mouse, well, I think it was what you said. Dead mouse doesn't have

a musical background and learn to play music on a keyboard. To me, that's learning guitar

hero to play guitar. Like what do you, what do you,

I was going to ask about the space bar artists. Like what are you doing? That's the critic.

The criticism is he hits a space bar or whoever the artist is.

And it's unfair criticism to be sure, to be sure. But it's not, it's not inaccurate criticism.

It might be unfair to a degree, but it's not inaccurate. Learn. You want to learn to play

a keyboard, learn to play the damn keyboard. Right. So I'm not, I'm not trying to be critical.

I didn't know that about dead mouse and that's a name I knew because they collaborated with

food fighters in 2011, the wasted light album that long ago, you know, so like it's clear

that this has a place. It has a, a massive footprint. And I'm not trying to be a hater.

I just had, when you said that, that, that kind of threw me off. It makes me think about

the jam band thing that started this whole festival, which, which, which really fascinates

me because I went through a, and it wasn't just a phase. It was half my life, 20 years

of jam band fandom. And it really, it wasn't created by Bonnaroo, but it was fueled by

it. Fuel, fuel, fuel fire, just roaring hotter every year. Right. This has got the same kind

of feel is, am I being unfair there? The criticism there is it's noodling, you know, I mean,

and everything sounds the same. Everything sounds the same. Every band never stops playing

the same song over and over again. When does the song begin? When does it end? Where's

the middle? All this unfair criticism. You only do it when you're on drugs. It's not

any good unless you're high, which there's truth to some of that. But I mean, it's, it

feels kind of the same. And that what makes me not want to dismiss it because if somebody

said people did say, I'm with you, I'm, I'm, I'm not dismissing it. And it's, it's also

listening again, Daniel, to your playlist. Thank you. I mean, it's, it's video game.

It's, it's the, it's what we hear, right? I mean, it's maybe not my generation because

I, you know, I'm grew up with Motown. I grew up in the seventies with the arena rock. So,

I mean, I, I hear all of that in these, in this music and remember when it was new and

original. Um, and so, I mean, I, I get it. Right. Um, and the, I would say the one record

label within EDM right now that's doing the most of those classic samples and bringing

in those elements is, is Phylos records. And it's why I would love wearing the woods tab

of Phylos records. Take it. Yeah. We were talking about that on our text.

So I did a quick Google search on Phylos. Right. So it's just a record company, right?

Like they're, they're just, they're a probably operate a little differently than we're used

to as far as record company goes, but they're just a record company. And when you say, um,

a takeover, you mean their artists take over wild in the woods or restraint, whatever the

hell it's called that you're, that's what you were referring to the debt beats takeover

last year where is that Zed's dad had all artists. That's right. Record label play up

until they played late at night. And one thing that's becoming popular within the EDM scene

is that people are getting really attached to record labels and the sound within those

record labels and kind of making all the artists within that record label and in some fast

and other events are now just booking by label. And then they're able to, to grab, it's easier

to grab a set group of artists because they're all within this, the same label. They're all

talking to the same people, but then people are also excited that it's a similar sound

as well. So some, so something that they did a good job of it last year and something that

we're in the woods could continue to benefit from is having various, uh, takeovers because

now what day passes there, there'll be people that will come to Bonnaroo for a day just

to go to the wear in the woods for that particular record label. All right. That makes sense.

This has got that hip hop kind of thing you're talking about. It's Def Jam, Def Road, Def

Row, yeah. And Def Jam. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this isn't, again, it's not new. Arista,

you know, going back to the Almond Brothers and everybody that was on that label and interesting.

What's old is new. Old is new. And what's new is old. Um, the, yeah, I'm glad you brought

up the one day and the two day. Um, how does, how does this line up? And you said there

are fewer, um, how does this lineup look to an EDM fan, uh, like yourself? And, and again,

I, we want to have more people on for a whole nother show, maybe even two other shows when

that wear in the woods lineup drops. Uh, and several of you have reached out and said,

I want to be on and talk about EDM and we're going to do that. Uh, this just came up, um,

because Daniel was willing to come on and we wanted to do it. So, uh, how, how does

this lineup stack up? So obviously we talked about the fact that there's less artists.

Um, in addition to that, I would say that at least for me and for a lot of people, Bonnarooy

successfully got, I would say at least within the U S two of the five biggest EDM acts on

the scene right now with, with, uh, with Pretty Lights and Fred again. So a lot of people are

happy at the top with the artists that they were able to pull. It is his only for Fred

again, it's his only festival in the U S this year. So it's a very, it's a very unique name,

uh, in that regard and at the top end, it's very, very good. But in terms of the number

of artists and particularly people for people that specifically like bass music, um, for

some that the total number and the number of bass artists is lacking compared to the

last. So there you go, Russ. I mean, it's, it's, that's backwards from everything else,

right? Most of us are happy with the undercard and not the headline, but that seems to be

the prevailing opinion on, on most of the threads are that the, the undercard is strong

and the top is not so much again, you know, just depends on, on, on who you ask. Um, so

Daniel, you can speak to you specifically, but I'm asking you to make an unfair wide

generalization of the fan base of, of, we'll just call EDM. I know there's so many sub,

you know, I know it goes so much. This is like, you want someone coming to me like,

what about all that grunge music you listen to? All right, come on now. You know, like

I get it, but do are these it clearly, there must be a little bit of a, of a understanding

of music to be able to appreciate all this sampling. Do they have a bigger and have a

stat here that makes me want to ask this question. Um, the general listener of EDM, other music

tastes wide ranging or is it really so hot that that's really where they focus all their

time and energy from going to festivals, listening to it on the weekends out and having a party

in the woods, whatever it might be at the house party. Do you, do you see their genre

of music that they enjoyed being bigger or smaller or can you even answer it?

Can I, can I jump on, I'm going to jump on that question too. Cause I was thinking this

similar. Do you, will you just go to one stage? I do know. Yeah. I mean, and, and do you think

the, the general, I think it's similar to Brian's question, the general EDM fan, are

you just going to the other for five straight days or where in the woods or is it all over

the place? I would kind of, you can kind of category

overly simplify and categorize it into a couple of categories. People that within EDM that

only listen to house music often listen to a lot of rap music and pop music as well because

on a whole, they listen to a lot of music that mainstream and popular. So those kinds

of things go together, um, with more of the sampling in terms of phylos and some of the

even experimental bass music, the weirder side of bass music, a lot of that mesh, um,

mesh as well. And a lot of those people that like experimental bass music and a lot of

sampling also like jam music as well. So kind of, there's kind of like the two sides where

it's like the, the more musical side and technical side and less popular side, and then kind

of the more mainstream side. And that's an over generalization. Everyone has different

tastes in music, but I mean, sure. Did he answer your question, Brian? I didn't

mean to step on your question. No, no, mostly. And, and that's the way you just quickly said,

you don't, you don't stick around at one full show. Like you're not there to see a full

set necessarily. Cause that makes sense to me. The music designed to not be necessarily

consumed that way, but from event bright, the, uh, one of the mid level ticket, uh,

distribution companies, uh, discovered that 78% of fans say that they're more likely to

of EDM fans are more likely to attend an event if their peers do 78% compared to 43%. So

basically we're talking about friend recommendations. Like if I say, Hey Barry, I'm going to go

see a rock show. You want to go 43% say, eh, my friend says it's cool. Maybe I will 78%

of EDM say you're going, I'm going. That's a brand loyalty that I don't see anywhere

else.

I think on that as well. Um, I like a wide range of music, but I have noticed that I've

gone to an event with friends with a friend and met 10 new friends to the point where

now if there's an EDM event, Hampton Coliseum, we'll all meet up and work from anywhere from

Maine all the way down to Florida and from all over in the U S and we'll go to one area

for one big event and all see each other. And that might be the only time we see each

other the entire year. And I've only really felt that within somewhat the jam community

and, but, and even more so the ED.

Yeah. That's it. So that's jam all day long. I mean, I still have people if I, I don't

really go to widespread panic shows anymore, but that would be a good example of a comparative

a top of the mountain type artist that when I show up, no matter where it is, Oh, there's

that guy from, uh, from Hickory, North Carolina, that guy from Asheville. And, uh, you don't

find that anywhere else. And I thought that was, or you don't find that certainly very

often anywhere else. And, and I thought that that percentage of, of just recommendations

was, was huge to what the jam band community used to respond to all the time. I'm gonna

ask you the same thing about EDM, that the recreational drug use culture that comes along

with both of these, um, these genres, do you, do you, do you have disdain for that thought

for does that ups does that, is that an irritation to you? Do you do, do people amongst your,

your peer group just get beyond disgusted hearing that as far as linking recreational

drug use and festivals and that music, because the same thing happened to jam people and

it used to irritate me. But nowadays I kind of like, you know, kind of goes together really.

Like is that something that you're or you just embrace it or how does that go? How do

you guys think about that?

As a primary thing, I think it's very important to point out how prevalent and it all has

become within the community. And while we talked about the nineties and people going

to raves and being able to do whatever and not worry about it as much, we're not really

in an era where, where that can be the case.

Sure. But I mean, that doesn't mean that young, I mean, you're, you're now on your way to

not so young anymore, but you know, this is very popular with your age, with 10 years

younger than you. They don't give two bleeps what any of us say on a podcast about fentanyl.

I just, I guess I just wondered how true it was as far as how much of this is for chemically

enhanced and, and is it irritating for, for fans of the genre?

The reputation, the perception.

I would, I would say that it, that it, that it's just as true as the jam of humanity in

terms of, in terms of-

Means it's true, but it's, it's not, you know, it is, but it isn't. Which means it is.

So Fred again, um, that is, uh, you know, from listening to some other, uh, and by the

way, I wanted to give a shout out to the RooHamm guys, a couple of great podcasts. I love,

uh, Jake and, and Parker and they've had a couple of really great podcasts. And of course,

uh,

Don't forget Reed.

Uh, Parker and Reed, exactly the three of them and Michael, the four. Um, but the, the

Fred again seems to be, have become kind of a, I don't know if that maybe that's the,

the one that people are talking about, like why that's a headliner. Uh, but as we have

Brad and Corey on, this is a big deal. It's a huge deal. It's the only North American

set that he's going to do at Bonnaroo. It's going to close out Sunday night. Um, it's all, even

I know, even I know that's cool. Like that's, that's, that's my point. I mean, we're, we're

pretty excited about it. Um, how big a deal is that?

So I have some background on him. If, if anyone didn't know, he started as a producer in 2014

when he was 20 years old and, uh, he made, he made, he's worked with BTS, a big K-pop

group and Stormzy and produced,

Doesn't, doesn't help in my, my universe, but anyway,

Produced two of Ed Sheeran's records as well. So he has worked on some, some bigger projects

to start out on, but really has like come onto his own recently. Uh, I added that he

plays piano percussion. He actually sings, he adds bass loops, he has vocal samples and

in some of his stuff, he also plays the marimbas.

It's going to be a big show, right? I mean, it's not just going to be, it's going to be

everything. Lights, the sound,

The speculation within it is that because it's a big show, um, last year at Coachella,

he brought out a Skrillex and Fortet and Fortet is playing a set the same day. So Fortet might

be there, but then a lot of people are also hoping that Skrillex might be there as well.

I've seen the Skrillex things, uh, quashed more than anything because if, if he's going

to be there, Bonnaroo is going to sell that. That's, that's, that's what I believe when

I read. Um, the more I see on this, uh, Fredigan thing, the more I do recognize the uniqueness

and, and, and cool factor. When you talk about some of the producers, Pretty Lights work

with Rick Rubin, you know, half decade ago, maybe a decade ago. But when it comes to the

Daniel to the live experience, right? So you're going to see this show. I saw the Pretty Lights

thing in passing. I stopped by and then, you know, just moved right along. Um, how much

of this, and this kind of is the same thing as a jam question you would ask, how much

of a live performance we're sitting there for an hour watching one of these acts is

improvised and, and how much of it is, is, is like, it sounds like on the record, right?

Like is, is this a situation where you're never going to see the same show twice? Is

it quite, it can get that unique or?

So there were only three songs that there were only three songs they played at ever.

So they went to cities for either two or three shows and there were only three songs that

were played in every single group of shows.

And even those three songs might not at all be like the way they were played the night

or week or month before. Is that fair?

Correct. So on average, Pretty Lights songs on the actual records and singles are between

three and five minutes in the live versions have been on average between 10 and 15 minutes.

So you're getting, getting seven to 10 minutes of.

So it is a jam band style, improv, improvising style of music, which is, which is cool. Cause

you know, you're going to see something that you didn't see last night, which I'm a big

fan of not doing when rock bands do the repeat thing over and over again, it annoys me. So

yeah. Stupid, stupid question along those lines. Is it, is this kind of music you listen

to in the car?

I had that one written down. Or is it just, is it better live? I mean, obviously it's

better live, but is it stuff? Is this what you listen to? You know, when you're listening?

I'm really, really hoping that Pretty Lights puts out more of their live music on different

platforms. Right now you're having to go back and watch the old shows on, on YouTube and

in a SoundCloud and other things. I'm hoping that they put a lot more of the live stuff,

but Pretty Lights, the modern version of Pretty Lights really, really is like jam bands where

you're going to have to go back and listen to live shows rather than the singles that

they have on because it's not even comparable what they're doing compared to the live shows.

Yeah. I mean, anybody who listens to this knows I'm a huge, my morning jacket. They're

a live band. I mean, I can listen to their albums, but it's because I'm listening to

the live sets and you know, so I get it again, the jam band comparison is, is really good.

All right. So who are the don't miss? We talked about Fred again, we talked about Pretty Lights,

obviously. So the Bonnar BPM playlist I made is the 16 artists that I'm most excited to

see it. But if we want to get it down to like fives, Fredigan is definitely up there for

me. Casablanca is up there for me. Fischer's up there for me. Pretty Lights is up there

for me. And then I'm very excited for Shyeth X, which is a drum and bassist artist. The

only drum and bass artist on the lineup, very, very popular in the UK, but we don't see a

lot as much of it in the United States. But I'm very excited for that show. He's been

making music since 1992 and he's really a pioneer of the drum and bass.

What separates him for you?

His longevity and really it's really the only drum and bass act that we've seen in the last

three years. So it is like a novelty to get a drum and bass artist.

Well, I'll tell you what's dragging me in here going back to Pretty Lights real quick.

We don't have to spend a lot of time on it, but this Thursday night late on the what?

I mean, I don't know if everybody agrees with me or not, or many people that the what stage

is the greatest stage in the history of music. I don't know what the maybe the others, the

second best or maybe they're tied. I don't know. I have the biggest hopes of a show I've

seen on this what stage because it's every show I've ever seen. There is my one of my

favorite shows I've ever seen of whoever from Sheryl Crow to Portugal, the man to Panic

to Brothers to all my brothers to whoever. I mean, that's going to be some big sound,

big light. I mean, are you expecting something really big time on that Thursday night from

Pretty Lights?

So at the Caverns, they brought out the drones and the drones are the company that they use

for the drones is based in Tennessee. So at this point, I would be there. The drone. I

would be very, very shocked if they don't have the drones as part as part of that sounds

dangerous. But really, it's just like at the Great Bulldedge show that was in Colorado

where they are dead and killing Colorado. Yeah, yeah. Where they had the drones up in the

sky. It's similar to that. Oh, OK, cool. Yeah, very cool. Yeah, I'm expected. I'll be there

Thursday for that. I don't know that I'll catch the second go around whenever that is

Saturday, I guess. When are we aware in the woods? When are we expecting to see this from

all of the panel here? Do we know if anybody following these threads enough? Is it any

day, any week, any month? I'm going to get Tuesday's usually they said late February,

early March. So don't they typically don't they typically drop on a Tuesday? Yeah, it

could be this Tuesday. So it could be out by the time you know, you're listening to

this. We just don't know. Yes. It could have been yesterday by the time you're here. Yeah,

we'll certainly circle back around to it. Yeah, which is why we want to have more episodes

of this because we're going to do this. Yeah, for sure. And for everybody sitting here thinking,

you know, again, Daniel, thank you. Yes, sir. But for everybody listening, you know, like,

why is this guy the expert? It's just because we wanted to have him on. And he got under

Russ's skin and Russ challenged him and he's on. Wasn't my skin. No, I mean, in a great

way. Daniel, did we have we covered everything that you wanted to cover today? I know you

did a lot of prep and so did we. I did more prep for this show than I've ever done for

one of our shows that I think Brian did as well. Have we covered everything? As we're

anticipating the Wearing the Woods lineup, it's important to point out that the last

two years when you add in the Wearing the Woods lineup, we had 48 and 47 EDM max. So

for it to be comparable this year, we're going to need four or 25 memes on the lineup for

some people to be happy. So it's got a lot of cues to fill. How many Wearing the Woods

acts a year do we have that about 10, 12, 15, 20? We had in 2022, we had 16 unique EDM

acts and in 2023, there were 18 unique acts. So so you it would have to be a big year to

get to the number that you're talking about. Yeah. OK. What else, guys? Anything? Any other

questions? Any other points? I mean, the I mean, the generalized stuff we pretty much

got to one quote here I thought was interesting for Mixmag in the 2000s. And it was comparing

it a lot to UK. It's a long I'm not going to read all of it, but just one thing I highlighted

here. And Live Nation also has a lot to do. You know, they're taking over everything,

taking over this too. But like many music genres, trying to pin it down exactly is like

trying to grab a fistful of water. Nice. I thought that was a pretty good line just randomly

that I ran into. I I still find it very difficult to wrap my head around how much sampling goes

on in this. And but I had that problem and I don't sorry, I don't mean to call it a problem,

but I had that trouble grasping it as a music fan with the hip hop culture in that world

of 3040 years ago to especially sitting here in a podcast that if you play 30 seconds of

somebody's song, it gets flagged and thrown in the garbage can. You know, it's like what

the hell man and their fair use law. I spent a long time looking at you want to talk about

jargon. You know, the laws around a lot of this stuff and fair use. I don't know how

the hell they get away with all of this. So regularly, but they do. And it works, I guess.

You know? Yeah. You know, all I'll say to sort of wrap up is I'm a fan. I don't hate.

That's not even the right way. I like EDM. It's not something that I'm going to listen

to in the car over and over and over and over and over and over. There are certain songs

that I like. I was very impressed with the again, Daniel will playlist to see where it's

come. There's a lot that the different genres and the different areas that things have gone.

I will say I like it. I mean, it's you know, I like pretty lights and I had from the moment

I heard it. I can't wait for the show, but that's all. I'm not going to go to another

one. It's going to be a lot of fun. I want to see the Fred again thing. I want to see

both. Yeah. I haven't been there on a Sunday night in years. We'll see how it goes. But

Daniel, what do we miss as we wrap things up? Anything? I would just for people that aren't

familiar with Fred again, I would some recommendations if you wanted to hear something that's it

that that has club club vibes, it would be his boiler room set for 2022. That's the first

thing I heard. And I wanted him to be on the Bonnaroo line up last year. So I'm excited that

we finally got him this year. And then to see kind of that Fortet and Skrillex added

in, you can listen to the Coachella set from last year. And then if you want to just see

him on his own, doing his own thing with a lot of live, live elements, his studio live

one through three for Fred again. And then definitely for pretty lights, all the live

shows within the last year, because that's kind of the best indication of what they've

been doing. Really quick, Daniel, you said you wanted Fred again last year. Were you

surprised to see them on a on the what as a headliner? Did that was that a surprise

to you based on the fact of how he's blown up from last year to this year? It wasn't

as surprising to me. He's getting to the point where when he's doing pop ups in cities, he's

currently in Australia, and he had a pop up in New York as well. But he's selling out

five to 10,000 seat venues within a minute. And it's getting to the point where it's impossible

to get a seat in shows. Even even if even if you follow him and have that the now notifications

and everything just like if you're not there at the right place at the right time, like

seeing his shows pop up, then you're just not going to go. No denying it. No denying

it is powerful stuff. So I would expect a lot of people to get a single day pass to

come see him if they haven't been able to see him in any other capacity. Because really

in the US, he's only been really staying in New York and LA. He hasn't had a tour within

the whole United States. And he's been I think he did 12 shows in LA and six or six to eight

in New York. So really kind of staying in those kind of areas. All right. Cool. Daniel,

thank you so much. Thank you. And yeah, appreciate the effort, man. Appreciate the effort. We

probably didn't get to I bet you got a lot. They're like, damn it, guys. I got all this

stuff, but I appreciate it, man. All right. So there you go. What'd you learn? Did we

learn anything? Not really. And I don't mean that it mean that in a bad way at all, because

I'd already skimmed through. I mean, I actually learned a lot. I just can't remember half

of it. I can't remember half of it. But as far as the generalizations, I not as much

because I'm really looking forward to this pretty light show. I saw them playing Althea,

Grateful Dead on one of the videos I was watching last night. And as soon as it got to the part

where the singing, when it changed, the bass dropped, as they say. And I was like, damn

it, man. Where did my Grateful Dead song go? But I don't think that's what I'd say. The

thing that stood out to me and you brought it up and kept bringing it up is the comparison

to jam bands. I think it's uncanny. Right. It's I think it's valid that and just going

back to early rap. That is something I knew today. Speaking of your new question that

I thought that that was true, but I didn't know how much those two scenes mirrored each

other. The three. Yeah, really? Yeah. Oh, the three, the three. EDM, rap and jam. Yeah.

And this festival has been paramount to a lot of that. I think that's a hundred percent

right. And I mean, I think I remember going, I've told this story before two o'clock in

the morning with Mike Dewar, our campmate and Denson to check out EDM the year that

the other became dedicated to EDM. You know, Mike was like, I don't get it. You know, and

he's a music promoter here locally, so he gets music more than anybody knows what he's

doing. Yeah, you're a hundred percent right. He's been doing this a lot a long time. And

so but I remember saying, I get it. I mean, it's it's what the kids like. I mean, you

know, forgive me again for sounding like the old man. But I get that it may be not my thing,

maybe not your thing. I was not into jam bands. I like a little bit, but I'm good for 10 minutes.

You know, I can't imagine all day long 24 seven. It's it. I'm not the audience. Yeah.

Trends are wild and how much they can or might not take over anybody. I was a jam band guy

for 20 years, probably closer to 15 and the fade hit. I don't want to listen to jam music

now to save my life outside of like the favorites, like my favorite, favorite, favorite core,

Dead Panic, Almond Brothers, you know, way before New Age. Yes, I love that stuff. But

hey, let's go listen to 15 minutes of Althea. Yeah, my daughter hears the opening notes,

the whipping post and you can see the show. And my wife and I are like, yeah, yeah, you

got a drink. It's a topped off. You ready? We're gonna be here a while. We're like, yeah.

Well, that was 10 minutes on the record in 1975 or whatever. So yeah. So I wonder, is

this a youth phase out eventually in their life or is this something, you know, there'll

be 50 and like, man, that pretty light show in 2011, dude, like, I don't know. I wonder,

you know, it's just time will tell the list that he that Daniel put together for us. And

again, we're going to link to it. Yeah, it's exhaustive. There's so much there. It's great.

And thank him. Thanks to him for doing that. But it's so different than the list that I

would have put together five years ago when the other came around, which was a lot of

the bass drop bass and drum type. Yeah, that was real popular at that moment. And it all

sounded like the list that Daniel put together does not all sound alike. The genre, the genre

has evolved a great deal. It's, you know, it's like bass nectar. I don't like I've never

heard a bass nectar song. I know you said I didn't. I've never heard a bass nectar song

that made me think I got to hear that again. I've heard countless pretty light song that

was like, yeah, that's pretty good. That's pretty good. Girl talk. I can do girl talk.

And I forgot all about girl talk to you mentioned it earlier and dead mouse. I forgot about

that till he mentioned. I didn't know he didn't play instruments except for learning how to

play keyboard. But yeah, it's all right. Good show. So next week, don't know what we're

doing. We're like I said, the where in the woods is going to drop. Our plan is to put

a panel together with several of the people that have reached out. Right. That want to

talk about EDM and all that. And yeah, and continue to reach out if you're listening

and you think you've got something you want to come on and tell us. You know, we're open

to that. I do. I mentioned it earlier. I don't know why I didn't find it before. But the

RooHamm guys have done a couple of great episodes. Go check them out. They talk at length about

the one day two day thing we kind of touched on that. Do you guys have any more thoughts

on the one day tickets, two day tickets? Yeah, no, I mean, I find it silly to when I see

people upset about it. I do. I find it a little silly. Seems like it's mostly calm down. I

guess people are kind of, you know, have let that settle. I think a big part of the backlash

was the fact that they came on our show and were very adamant that no, you if you want

to come to Bonnaroo, you got to do the full four days and, you know, make a big deal about

it. And then I think the backlash just comes from from them backtracking on that particular

point. Yeah, if they if Bonnaroo thought this was a good idea, they would have done it from

the jump. They thought this was the way to go. They would already done it. I think it

has to do with I think it's a representation of ticket sales. I don't know. No, you're

100% right. There's no question about it. The only the only criticism that I've heard

that sticks at all for me is the idea that you might have a bunch of people come in for

one day and think they should elbow their way up to the front and they should they should

take over versus those of us who have been sweating it literally sweating it out for

four days or whatever. Right. Yeah. You know, what are you going to do? Yeah, I did that.

That one falls a little deaf to me. I mean, I'm sure there's truth to it. But I mean,

this is I don't I don't I don't know. I don't I don't think that's going to be a big deal.

But I you know, this is a big space, a lot of people and a lot of anecdotal things are

going to happen. And I think again, going back to Jake and and Parker, I go back and

listen to their episode. I think they really hit it. Just what you guys said, it doesn't

change our lives at all in reality. And if it's what Bonnaroo has to do to survive, then

come on, bring it. Yeah, there's still a good chance these people that are buying one or

two day tickets this year, they might love it so much. They'll buy a full weekend next

year. There's a lot of there's a lot of layers to why to do this. And I don't see anything

negative coming out of it. Only positivity can come out of doing this. Dollars and cents

sparking interest. To me, it makes a lot of sense. I probably should have done it from

the jump. I agree. I just wanted to bring that up. Because like I said, I listened to

their episode the other day and they they made a lot of good points. And all right,

anything else? Any other news? All right, we're good to go. All right. Another good

video. Love you guys. Thanks everybody for listening. Hit like and share. Thanks to Consequence.

And see you guys on the farm.