Oh, hello, podcast listener.

Don't want to interrupt your fine day.

I know we have a big show, but we thought we'd jump in real quick

and tell you about how you can win Bonnaroo tickets with a camping pass.

Barry Courter. This is huge.

This is a man I wish I could I wish I could.

By the way, when you say that, I want to see your hands, by the way.

I need the hands above the table and you say this is huge.

Huge on the screen.

All right. So this is exciting.

So you get in the years past, we've basically just done.

Hey, saying something nice about us now, we've taken the

we've gone next level with our vanity and we want you to make art with our faces.

That's right. I need you to I need you to draw something about me.

OK. And if Brad and Russ are in the in there as well, that's great.

But mostly about.

Wait a minute. Oh, it's about Baring.

We didn't agree to that.

I mean, I think anything what podcast related, if you could whip up something

and whether it be by hand, whether it be on Photoshop, whether, you know,

it's something you force your child to do, whatever you need,

whatever you can do to get these tickets in your hand.

That's what we need from you.

Yeah. Yeah. OK. It'll be fun. Make it fun.

And how do we submit that, Russ?

Send them to comments at the what podcast dot com.

Or you can tweet them to us.

The what underscore podcast.

I didn't even know that was the thing.

Comments at the what podcast dot com. Yeah.

Is that whatever is that?

We've never read any comment we've gotten.

I have keep sending them.

Is that where we got the the first drawing already?

First one came to us on Twitter.

I have to say, it's pretty strong.

I love my hair.

It looks very jaunty in the picture.

It's a great first example of what we're looking for. Maybe

we can put it on here for people to see so they know what they have to be.

Well, you leave it to Russ.

He's got it going on. He's got the thing popped up.

It's all good. That's our first submission.

Do we know the names of this person?

The name of this person?

I know Ponto wasn't it? Gary got it.

All right. There you go.

Be like Gary.

Submit your fine piece of what podcast art for Bonnaroo tickets.

We'll do the drawing. We give it four weeks.

You think we can make this happen in four weeks or we want longer?

Four weeks limit on it, given knowing how we operate.

I would put a deadline on it.

It's a good point. We'll pick them when we're ready.

Yeah. How about that?

All right, Val suppression me on to the what podcast?

A big show today. Let's do it.

Consequence podcast network.

A genre pool we so rarely dip our toe into.

This week on the what podcast, we talk to one of the biggest

electronic artists in the world.

Tyrone from Rufus to Soul.

New album, new song, new tour dates.

Where they started, how they got here, the highs and lows along the way.

We dive into it all today on the what podcast.

It's electronic music day, kids with Tyrone from Rufus to Soul.

Brad Steiner, Perry Quarter, Lord Taco.

The what podcast starts right now.

Brad Steiner, afternoon guys.

How are you? How are things?

You look pretty, Barry. Look well.

Everybody OK?

Super. Doing great.

Yeah, we're doing great.

Yeah, doing great.

OK, yeah, everything's good. How are you?

You know, I don't think I've ever heard you say, yeah, I'm just OK.

Yeah, I'm not. I'm always good.

I'm just good. All right.

Taco, how's the bus?

Bus is good.

Just like, yeah.

What you got in that cabinet?

What you got in that cabinet?

Cabinet? Let's see.

Oh, you can reach into the cabinet.

Oh, you got a PBR cabinet.

Yeah. You got your own PBR cabinet.

Wow. How about that?

Just stick it back there.

Yep.

Yeah, because you don't want the boss to see it.

You don't want to see.

No, that's why I'm in.

That's why I'm in the bus hiding out.

So this is an exciting week for us, Barry.

I think that we have the biggest artist we've ever had on the show.

That's right.

Am I you think I'm overstating it?

You think I'm bloviating?

No, no, no, no.

You know, if we're going by the poster.

Yeah, if we're going by our own poster, if we're making our What Show

podcast festival poster, they would probably be our headliner.

This would be the headliner.

Their second line on some other other posters, but on ours, man, it's top.

Pretty cool.

Yeah. So it's not really about any festival in particular,

although that they are playing Boston Calling and Forecastle.

You know, I.

I'll talk about it afterwards

about their interaction with festivals in general,

because something about this conversation sort of struck me.

And I I don't think we've ever really dove too far into it,

because we are we live in this world, you and I and taco where festivals really matter.

And to some artists, they just don't.

Yeah, you know.

Well, you know, I was thinking about that because we do put a lot of emphasis in.

And it's one of the questions that we've asked for five years.

Which ones do you like the most?

And for the most part, they see a bus,

they see a backstage and they see a stage and then a crowd.

What's what is and then they see a check and they see a bus and then they go.

Then they see the road.

So, yeah, and you know, we've asked the question before, which one do you

do you approach this festival differently than the other?

And of course, the answer is no.

Who's going to say, yeah, we do this one better.

You know, we put more energy into this one than that one.

Nobody's going to say that.

Well, we always because we personalize it.

We personalize it because we think it's a girlfriend.

You know, which which girl do you like better?

Pick one. You have to.

But the other thing is and we have heard people say Bonnaroo is different

because sometimes they stay longer.

You know, they actually go to see other acts.

They might stay a day or two.

Number one, but the other thing I was thinking about is the stage and the show

and the 90 minutes are pretty much.

They're similar.

I don't want to say they're all the same, but they're similar.

It's what happens away from that 90 minutes that makes one festival

different than the other.

Right.

I don't always see that.

Yeah, you know, so I see what you mean.

Yeah.

Oh, well, to cut to the chase, our guest today, Rufus Assol.

Tyrone from Rufus Assol.

And believe me, it was all I could do to not sing called Tyrone

while he was talking to us.

I wanted to so bad.

Because how many times you actually meet somebody named Tyrone?

Not very often.

I can't think I've ever met a Tyrone.

Now that I think about it, I don't think I can find a Tyrone that I know in my

life except for him.

And I so badly wanted to say that I just couldn't do it.

Couldn't bring myself to do it.

It was great.

It was really cool talking to him.

So it's pretty much a standalone episode today where we're not going to get into

much festival talk.

We spent a good 25, 30 minutes with Tyrone from Rufus Assol talks about the new album,

talks about what they've been doing the last two years.

I love the conversation about his kid and how priorities have changed.

And I feel like at least I take from it and I mentioned it.

I hear a lot of mental health problems.

I hear a lot of mental health things happening in and around this conversation,

not to mention it did feel as though it was on the brink of ending.

Did you pick that up?

Yeah, to be clear to your point, it sounded like they fixed it.

They fixed it.

It doesn't sound like they're in it now, but they were headed towards, as he said,

a shit storm.

Yeah.

Well, you'll hear it from him.

So here we go.

Rufus Assol on the What Podcast.

Enjoy.

Hey Tyrone.

How are you doing?

Sorry for the delay.

No, that's okay.

Glad you're here.

You've got sunny LA life to live.

You're doing just fine.

It's a pleasure to be here.

Hello.

I'm Tyrone.

I'm a music critic.

I'm the producer.

I'm the director of the music studio.

And I'm the music producer for Rufus Assol.

Thanks for coming.

I'm Tyrone.

I'm the music producer for Rufus Assol.

You've got sunny LA life to live.

You're doing just fine.

How are things?

Great, things are great, yeah.

I gotta imagine so.

I mean, it's not like your, I don't know,

your band seems to be doing just okay.

Yeah, we've had a good run.

I'm stoked about it.

We've been together for like 11 years

and it's been a really smooth, I mean, smooth.

It's been a great journey and we're here

and yeah, we're stoked.

Well, we'll talk about the new album,

the new song, of course, here in a little bit,

but I kinda wanted to start at Bonnaroo 2018

because I don't think that there was a more talked

about tent show afterwards than what you guys

pulled off in 2018.

Do you have any memories of that?

Why?

They all run together, don't they, at some point?

They really do blend in at a certain point

and especially having not done many shows

over the last three years, since I think 2018, 2019.

Basically, shows just came to a halt for us

and we went into the studio and started writing music

and made the most of not touring.

And I don't know, it's weird.

I don't really remember being on tour.

I don't remember much before it.

I do, I remember being on a handrail.

Handster wheel, doing a lot of shows and it being exciting.

Sure, but it's sort of like the case of the COVID brain,

right, there's life pre-COVID and life post-COVID

and anything that happened before it,

were we even alive?

Did we do anything?

Exactly.

Yeah, it's changed so much for us,

in a real positive way.

I mean, we're hard workers, we work a lot,

probably workaholics.

We spend a lot of time making music

and it just forced us to slow down a bit.

And I don't know, it was a really nice reminder

of the fact that we're friends.

Like we're three guys that are in the band

and we're best friends.

We love making music.

And it was a good pause for us to kind of reset

and rethink where we wanted to go.

And I don't know, we changed the way we write too.

Usually it's like in the past,

it's been late nights throughout, till the morning,

just following the creative train,

hoping that a song kind of is born out of it.

And this time around, we just, we had more structure.

We did more of like a nine to five,

only it was 11 to seven for us to skip the traffic.

Still not waking up early, are you?

Still not waking up early.

Oh, well I am.

I'm a dad and I've got a little two and a half year old son.

So I'm up at five at the crack of dawn.

Oh, congratulations.

Yeah, that's nice.

This is what I kind of wanted to get at

because you said 11 years and you guys started in Australia

and now you're in Los Angeles, right?

And you got a child.

What's that transition been like?

I mean, I know I was reading a little bit,

especially about the property

where you recorded your first album, right?

Sold for a nice little bit of change back in Australia,

right?

Because apparently they sold it as the place

where Rufus recorded, right?

That's kind of funny.

But what's it like going from that to where you are now

as far as like a band?

What's that transition been like over the years?

It's surreal.

I mean, I think when we started out,

we had dreams and aspirations

that were far smaller than they are now.

Like, you know, in Australia, we grew up in Sydney.

So it was like to play the local kind of live venues there.

And then as you kind of grow our goals

and the goalposts shifted,

and it's been like a steady climb.

And I don't know,

I guess the biggest transition has been the last two,

three years where I'm a dad now, I'm married.

And we as a band, like if we were to sustain

the way we were going, like we had to change some things.

This was just like so many shows

and we were running ourselves into the ground

and it was compromising the quality of the shows.

And I don't know, you know,

it was also just like pushing each of us

as friends further apart.

And so it's just been like a nice reset that wasn't easy.

It wasn't like, and the last three years haven't been easy.

It's been difficult.

And I feel like we're reaping the rewards

just in terms of our friendship and the music making.

And me just being a dad too,

like I didn't know,

I wouldn't have known what I was missing out on.

I would have been on the road being like,

yeah, I'm a great dad.

And you know, I wouldn't have known any different.

And realistically, I wouldn't have been in my son's life

nearly as much.

And it's been a big gift that I get to wake up next time

and you know, like hang out

and then go make music with my friends.

Well, you said that it switched

and changed a little bit of your priorities.

You know, those shows did get really massive

and you guys did that on purpose.

And it gained you so much traction in the community.

You got such a massive amount of fans

who are at the last couple of years

and now it's a switch of the,

I guess a little refocus of the priorities.

What does the next two years look like for you guys?

I mean, it looks quite similar really.

Like we're still, we're back in the studio now.

We got back in there to make more music a few weeks ago.

And that's our plan, like to continue making music.

It's what we love to do.

Yeah, but you said, you said there was.

Hopefully we'll be touring a bunch this year,

but touring was a bit different.

You said there was a part of it

where it was almost like tearing you guys apart.

You don't wanna get back there.

So what do you do to sort of protect yourself

from that kind of experience again?

Sure, sure, sure.

I guess it's the amount of touring.

We'd go on the road for three months at a time

and then come home.

Now it would look like touring for four weeks

and then coming back for a week

and then touring for four weeks and coming back for a week.

And maybe it's portioned out a little more,

like spaced out.

So you might do like five tours in a year,

like across the country, across the globe.

And there's just more space between

where we can kind of reset our clock,

reconnect, get in the studio.

Because it's also like, you know, when we're on the road

at three months at a time,

there's no new music being written.

Like, so the muscle, I see it as a muscle

being in the studio where you're, you know,

you're being creative.

The longer that you're in the studio,

the better you get, the sharper your tools get.

And maybe you, you know,

fall on the easy quick fixes or quick ideas.

But for the most part, you're really like trained,

like, I don't know, like someone in sports

that's really sharp at their skill in the studio.

And it just feels nicer and healthier

for us to be able to not leave either the live arena

for too long or the writing,

or the writing arena for too long.

Just because, yeah, even not like having a year and a half

off touring, coming back and playing our first show

at Red Rocks, like this year, was it this year or last year?

It was like quite daunting, really.

It was exciting, but we're like,

are we gonna know what we do?

Like, do we know how to do this thing?

And it, yeah, it's like riding a bike.

You don't forget.

You said it started about three years ago

where you sort of realized you needed to do something.

Was there an event or was it,

was there one night where you kind of blew up at each other

or did you see it coming and then COVID hit

and it gave you the chance to fall back and rethink?

It was kind of a shit storm that was growing.

It was kind of all directions

and all things were coming to a head where,

you know, things were really exciting for us.

A lot of exciting things were happening,

like playing a bunch of festivals

in front of a lot of crowds, like big crowds.

And, you know, I think just you inherently as an artist

put pressure on yourself to create new things

and make new music.

And we weren't really getting that time.

And when you're touring so much,

you're like, your personal lives

kind of pushed to the side a bit.

So in terms of becoming a new parent,

for me that was really difficult.

And I know for the guys too, it was really hard.

So it was an accumulation of a lot of things.

And then just having been in a band for 10 years,

or I guess eight years, nine years at the time,

I think you just undergo change in that time period.

Like we were early 20s when we got together

and now we've entered our 30s.

And I don't know, I think you just change and evolve

and priorities change and shift.

And it just gave us a time to kind of talk to each other

and reset the clock and come at writing

from a different perspective.

And I don't know, I just feel like great things

come out of doing that, as opposed to

if we just steamrolled ahead.

And I don't think we'd be here right now.

Well, I mean, it sort of feels like

the way that you're describing it is that you found

not just the way that this operation works best for you,

but also maybe even funneled its way into your songwriting.

You know, the way that, I kind of describe it as emo, EDM.

You know, you guys are so vulnerable.

You actually put so much actual work

into the songwriting part of it,

which is the part that I find to be

a little bit more refreshing.

And it does feel as though that this album

is a little bit more focused on that, right?

Am I reading that wrong?

Yeah, sure.

No, no, that's fair.

I mean, all of them, we throw ourselves as much

into all of them and they're kind of like a timestamp,

not like a diary entry.

It's like an unintentional timestamp of where we're at

at that moment in time when we make a record.

And you know, some people, bands might write the songs,

go in there and record in a studio

over the course of like a month or two.

We're in the studio writing on our synths and our drums

and like an unlimited amount of tools

kind of at our disposal to write and create.

But we're in there over the course of like a year,

a year and a half.

And that's like full time, just going into the studio.

So it's a lot of time that we're spending on fishing.

It's like you go in there and you can write a bunch

of ideas and they could all be crap,

but occasionally you just like stumble on a really real

raw song that reflects where we're at.

And it is vulnerable.

And it usually is, I feel like when we're at our best

is when we're like, you know,

we tap into something that's vulnerable,

but also hopeful and it feels, I don't know, it feels good.

A lot of my favorite bands, like Radiohead,

they do that.

It's like this hopeful, dis-ease, discomfort, euphoria,

but it's like just treads a line that I just think

is really exciting.

Yeah.

Given all that, how much did it change over,

if you had that much time, did the final sound sound

like what it did when you started or did what you were doing

when it started completely go away or did you keep some

of that? You know what I mean?

We had a lot of creative freedom going in because we didn't

have a deadline.

Like touring was wiped off.

So it wasn't like we had, oh, we've got two weeks

to write a song.

It was kind of like, all right, we went to Joshua tree.

We were in this ranch type thing, which is a studio,

but it's called Escape Studios.

And it was awesome.

Like it's in the middle of nowhere and it was just us.

And we would start the day with meditation,

do exercise, get in a cold plunge.

And then by midday we'd get in there and write music.

And it was just a really cool way to do it.

And we were trying different beats for ourselves

and different tempos and different instruments.

I think it was more like classical songwriting

where we're just trying to write songs without producing

them or seeing them all the way to the finish line.

And then you kind of like end up with little gems

and then you over the course of the next six months a year,

you're trying to crack the code on them and finish them.

And we always go into an album without a clear intention

of what it's gonna end up like.

It's more like what's inspiring us at the time.

What are you guys listening to?

We share a bunch of music.

We listen through the albums that have inspired us

across our years.

We'd listen to an album while we did exercise every day

over the course of that two months.

And that bleeds into the record, being in Joshua Tree,

where it's essentially feels like you're on the moon.

It's just like rock out crops.

That all influences things.

Yeah, you sound so mentally centered.

Is this a reflection of the work that you've done

or were you guys always sort of this, you know, Buddhist?

It's mentally Buddhist.

No, we weren't always like that.

You know, like we were young and silly

and we've always cared about our live shows.

We've always cared about making the music,

but you know, we had a lot of fun across the years.

Like before we walked out on stage five, six years ago,

we were having a whiskey shot, you know, before walking out.

I did one just now.

Good.

And now we do ginger shots before we walk out.

It's just like, you know, it's where we're at now.

I hear you.

Yeah.

I mean, it is definitely more built for the long haul.

So this sound, you know, you're not talking to somebody

who knows what he's talking about when it comes to this.

No, so bear with me for a second.

But when you were a kid and you were playing around

and saying to yourself, I want to make a band.

I want to do this.

How did you stumble upon making electronic music?

How did you make, how did you find that world

instead of how a kid would normally just pick up a guitar

and start writing songs like that?

Honestly, that's where I started was with the guitar.

I started on piano when I was like five

and then kind of moved into playing in bands when I was 12.

And I always just wrote music kind of from 14.

I used any software I could get my hands on

and just recorded more alternative kind of,

I guess like acoustic, just songs really.

It was just fun for me.

And the three of us produce and write the song

and we all have a different story as to how we ended up

like, you know, making the songs we make.

But for me, that was it.

And I met one of the, John, one of the other guys,

and he was making more club music, I guess.

And we kind of met in the middle and we were like,

oh, you guys, you like Booker Shade?

And there was a few acts that we bonded over

and Chemical Brothers, oh,

Chemical Brothers, oh, cool, yeah, I like that.

And then we just started making some songs

and we would share our production tools with each other.

And there was a healthy push and pull

and there has been between all three of us

in terms of where we wanna take a song.

And that, for me, I'm probably more influenced

originally by rock or, you know,

and John probably more so like club songs.

He has an appreciation for pop and everything.

And James, he's kind of, he loves all music.

Polka, it's polka, isn't it?

I know it.

He's the glue, he's the glue.

He's like, he's just a, yeah.

He's the yellow seven.

I feel like there are like in everything

you need like a yellow seven

that brings all the compounds together.

So there is a big difference, I guess,

in your, maybe there's not when it comes to like

the live show versus the recorded product.

I've always wondered this, and again,

you're talking to an idiot.

So I apologize upfront.

But when you're on stage, and I know that you're doing,

you know, mostly, you know, vocals and keyboards and stuff,

but when I'm watching an electronic artist on stage,

how much freedom is actually happening in that space?

Is it, some of it's pre-mixed, I understand.

But what in it is controllable and maneuvered

and worked out on stage in the moment

between the two or three of you rather?

Well, it depends on the act.

But for us in particular, like we like to build out our sets

and lock it in pretty solidly in terms of, you know,

we see the lights in our show as an important tool

and asset, it's kind of like the fourth member of the band.

But we don't want it to just be a lighting show when we play.

So we like the interaction of it being a band

that can jam out and kind of stay on a loop

for however long we want, and we can improvise.

And there are moments where there are drum solos and,

it's kind of, it's evolved as well.

When we started, we had less freedom

to be able to jam on stage.

And now we've built that in.

But what, because for your own comfort?

No, no, not so much.

Well, I mean, set times, you only really get 25 minutes,

30 minutes at the start of your career.

Like, it's like, go play three songs and come off.

So you're basically just playing them verbatim.

But now, I don't know, we've just got more tools

in terms of equipment, more know-how

in terms of how to go about things,

how to go on a loop and stay there.

And how that is all synced together

in terms of our lights in front of house.

Like the team that is, you know,

from the audience's perspective,

how is it staying in time?

Yeah, that's a bit of like a,

that's a challenge to know how to do that.

I'm definitely not very tech savvy to be able to go,

oh, this is how you do it.

Sure.

Like it's been a learning process.

And there are many ways to go about it.

But it seems to me like if it's not coming in

with like a pre-mix and you guys are just sort of like

putting your vocals and some effects around it,

it does feel as though sort of like a high wire act

that you're pulling off if you're doing loops on the fly

and you guys are all just sort of, you know,

seeing where the moment takes you.

Is that right?

I mean, we're not like a jam band.

So it's not like saying that like,

how it unfolds.

But yeah, it's more like, I guess we build it in.

So it's not like, hey, you guys feeling a jam right now?

It's kind of like we've allocated ourselves times

and moments in the set where it's like,

here's the part where we're gonna go on like a one minute,

like, and it's not necessarily a minute,

but however long, we've preset how long it's gonna be,

where it's like we can jam out and we can loop something,

we can, and there's freedom for us to do what we want.

I was gonna ask how much of that comes from trust

from having done it with each other for so long?

Yeah, a lot of it.

And it's like, a lot of it is trust.

And it's like a language, I guess.

After doing it for so long with each other,

it's like, we don't really need to say,

okay, I'm gonna take this little moment here

or it's more fluid.

And we get time to rehearse.

And so it's not as like, yeah, I would just say,

we're not a jam band, we're an electronic act.

We make alternative electronic music,

but we know how to play our instruments

and we know how to jam.

So the reason I bring that up is because I adore the XX.

I love them.

And I think that they're one of my favorite bands

on the planet, but that live show is almost like

Jamie has hit play and it's over when the track is done.

Sometimes I'm just watching Jamie just stand back there

and I'm like, all right, I don't really have much to do

back here.

Yeah, well, that's exactly what I mean by,

it depends on the act.

There are so many acts that have different setups

in terms of, there's so many ways to go about it.

And a really important thing for us was having live drums.

We knew that.

That was, you asked it before, you're like,

how did you get into electronic music?

That is how I saw acts from Australia, like Cut Copy.

And I love Cut Copy.

I love Cut Copy.

Yeah, great.

And it's just like, they were doing,

it sounded like a band, but it was electronic music.

And I was like, oh, maybe I like electronic music.

It's just like rock, but in,

and it kind of opened the gateway of me being

a little more open-minded to electronic music.

Believe me, nothing has screwed up old white guy

more than seeing a hip hop band with a band.

Watching a rapper perform with a band.

He's sitting there wanting to hate,

they don't even play their own instruments.

Oh wait, they're playing instruments.

I wanna go back, if I can, real quick to the album,

because I'm interested, I'm fascinated by this idea

of you not having a deadline and you having all that time.

Because we've talked about this on here many, many times

with acts, this whole process of writing.

You've got some bands that love that deadline.

They love the pressure.

They can turn around and make it happen

and do it in two or three weeks.

Whereas if you have unlimited time,

it seems to me like it'd be easy to just get lost.

Yesterday was done and over.

Now I wanna do something new.

Or what I'm feeling this week is completely different

than last week or two, three months ago.

How do you keep that focus?

It's definitely a challenge.

It's a challenge.

That is what we experience.

We feel a certain way about a song

and we're excited by certain things today.

And then in six months time, that changes.

And the production can change on the song

and your perspective on the song that you wrote six months ago

can change.

And some stand the test of time and some don't.

And we've got a vault of skeleton songs

that haven't stood the test of time.

And that we haven't put out.

So it's kind of been a gift in a way

that it takes us so long to write music

because most of the songs that end up on an album,

we've been sitting with them for like six plus months.

That's a different perspective.

And we still like them and love them.

So it's like, it feels good to let go of it

and let it into the world.

And you know where you sit with it.

And sure, maybe in five years time,

I'll be like, oh, I don't like that song.

But I mean, we've given it a chance

and we've given it time.

But there is a process of losing yourself in the mud.

And there's, yeah, you can easily get lost.

And for us, what was helpful is taking a break.

Like we'd take a two week break.

Walk away and put it, yeah.

Come back, walk away, put it, come back.

You know, it's such a simple concept, Barry,

but I haven't really thought about it that way.

If I did this for a living and I was a songwriter,

I'm so impetuous.

I would walk into a studio just in a bad mood one day

and be like, all right, I'm writing a song

about being in a bad mood.

And then two days later, I'm like,

I don't even remember what I was talking about then.

Like what was I so upset about?

And I'm just sitting here thinking,

if you've got a toddler,

man, they change from week to week to week.

So, you know, what's important.

You're talking about me again, aren't you Barry?

Yeah, well that's exactly right.

So I know what you're going through.

Yeah.

But yeah, that, I mean, you know,

a two week old is completely different human being

than a two month old or a one year old.

So your whole world changes.

So that's why it's so fascinating to me.

Sure.

Thanks.

It is really fascinating.

We actually got Ziggy, my son,

like there's a little recording that I got of him

before I could say any words.

And I just found his voice so cute.

I'm sure every parent does

when their kids kind of dabble gooking.

But like I recorded it on my phone

and we managed to squeeze him into one of the songs

on our album called Make It Happen.

He's just at the end of the song and it just makes me happy.

Like the little trinkets and what do you call it?

Easter eggs that are in the album.

They kind of come out of making an album

for a year and a half.

Yeah.

That's really great.

If we made an album, Barry,

we would just have random sound effects

of Burr Taco opening a PBR.

Just randomly for no reason.

Yeah, there it is.

I know.

Drinking beer.

All right, so this is something we do on occasion.

First off, thank you so much for spending so much time

with us and dealing with at least in one particular person,

mine, not knowing what the hell I'm talking about.

But I want to play a little game that we usually do

with some people, predictive text.

What podcast predictive text?

So basically I put in to Google, does Rufus DeSole,

and I let the Google predictive text

finish the sentence for me, right?

So I'm gonna ask you a bunch of questions

from the Google predictive text, okay?

Go ahead.

So does Rufus DeSole's song?

Yes, yes we do.

Okay.

Hard man, they'd song hard.

They'd song hard.

Is Rufus DeSole EDM?

Well, I don't like the word EDM.

We're electronic music and it is dance music, so.

Okay.

What does Rufus DeSole mean in English?

That's what it means.

That's what it means.

That's what it means.

In English, yeah.

Look, these are absurd things here.

I like this one.

Is Rufus DeSole pregnant?

There was a time period where we were just Rufus

and a lot of people thought it was just one guy,

but what's a curve ball with that is that Rufus DeSole,

I'm like a female?

Like definitely not a guy if they're pregnant.

And then finally, the thing about,

I think that you're so endearing to the Bonnaroo audience

is because Rufus is the, what do they call those things?

That's like the mascot of Bonnaroo is Rufus.

Yeah, the character.

But it's spelled R-O-O-F-U-S.

It's three circles of the smiley face.

So, you sort of like have an automatic end

with the Bonnaroovians.

That's so good.

Yeah, the figure, the animated figure, Rufus.

It was the long play.

We knew it.

Yeah, you know it the whole time.

I'm sorry.

There is one other thing that,

and probably not in your department,

and you probably don't know anything about it

because I'm sure you don't spend much time

worrying about booking,

but you had the 2018 Bonnaroo,

you did Coachella two years in a row.

Then you were gonna come back for the second version

of Bonnaroo when it got rescheduled to Labor Day.

That fell apart.

This year, this tour that you're embarking on

has two festivals on it,

Boston Calling and Forecastle.

Was there any sort of conversation

about why those two festivals

and not a Bonnaroo again or a Coachella again?

And if you weren't part of it,

then don't worry about it.

I just, I thought that it was an interesting

set of tour dates I saw.

Yeah, I mean, I can't remember the conversation,

but I know that we've had it.

But I guess like you're booking shows like a year out.

So those conversations were like six months ago,

but I don't know why.

It made sense at the time.

Sure, fine by me.

Yeah, they're good ones.

In terms of like, playing the same festival

again and again, it's like, of course,

you have your favorite festivals

and your personal love for festivals,

but there are different crowds and different people.

And it's a real opportunity for us to get into

in front of new ears to play a new festival

or a different festival as opposed to,

I feel like most festivals have their loyal fans.

And you play one, hopefully.

I just think alternating between festivals is healthy

for us as a band.

But we obviously have our favorites.

For somebody who's actually done this overseas

and in America, can you tell a market difference

between the European festivals and the festivals overseas

than American festivals?

What is the difference for you?

We haven't done so much in Europe.

I mean, we've done a lot of stuff over there,

but we haven't played many festivals over there.

In Australia, I can speak in terms of Australia,

they're quite similar, really.

I mean, it's just that Australia's a lot smaller

of a market, not in terms of landmass,

but in terms of population.

Who's your favorite Australian artist?

Australian artist?

Same Impala.

Ah, okay.

I was hoping you'd say Courtney Barnett.

It's amazing how many Australian artists have exploded

over the last 10 years, right?

Whereas before, there weren't, I mean,

it just was not a fertile ground of bands coming out

of Australia and then out of nowhere.

It feels like every time I turn around,

there's another Australian band making some sort of noise.

Well, that's true.

Courtney Barnett is really amazing.

She's such a good storyteller.

And there is just so many great acts

that are coming out of Australia.

I don't know.

There's a nationwide radio station in Australia

called Triple J, and it's like an alternative radio station

that you can hear hip hop to heavy metal

to something more poppy to indie rock and roll.

Yeah, and it's just like the full spectrum.

And I'd say for the most part, that's what,

if you're growing up,

that's what you're listening to as a kid.

And so I think a lot of the,

a large portion of Australians are growing up listening

to a wide variety of music.

And I don't know what that does for a brand

or like your taste in music

or how that affects your influence

in terms of what you want to write.

But I think that has something to do with it.

Oh yeah.

If I was to guess.

Oh yeah.

It's at the kind of,

did it help foster an environment

where you felt like you could come from Australia

and make it?

You know what I mean?

Sure.

That's a huge part of things very often.

I think we weren't even looking outside of Australia though.

I think that it was like the opportunity

that you could have your song on Triple J.

Like in Australia, it's like, oh my God,

if we get a song on there,

then the whole country can potentially hear your song.

And that means you could tour to the six biggest cities

and potentially play these festivals that you know about.

It's so small over there,

like that it's doable.

Like it's like, you can do it.

And that's what I mean.

That's good.

See Barry, radio still matters, damn it.

Radio still matters.

Maybe not here, but it matters there.

Matters somewhere.

Man, Tyrone, thank you so much for the time.

I'm so excited to see you guys.

And it's been wonderful to watch you guys explode

over the last couple of years.

I think the new single is terrific

and the new album is so much fun to listen to.

I can't wait to see it live, man.

Thank you so much.

Thanks for having me.

And yeah, it's great to chat.

I enjoy LA.

Thanks for your time.

See you soon.

Yeah, there you go.

Rubus is so Tyrone.

You better call Tyrone on the What Podcast.

I really, the thing about him is that,

just a sweetheart.

And I feel as though if I didn't constantly interrupt,

he would have just talked forever.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He was a one question interview.

Yeah.

How are you?

Yeah, Barry loves those.

Barry loves those.

Those are great.

Barry's go-to move on something like that,

if you ever notice, I pull the curtain back.

His go-to move is,

well, with the new album,

did you accomplish everything you wanted?

And then just let the person go for 45 minutes

and all right, got my story.

See you later.

It's actually a two-parter.

What did you hope to accomplish and did you do it?

That's a pro tip right there now.

You're giving me secrets away.

Journalism 101 kids,

you're getting a masterclass here from Barry Gordon.

You're giving my secrets away.

Works every time.

By the way, if you ever hear Barry say that,

either he knows exactly where he's going with it

or he has nothing.

Again, you're giving all my good stuff away.

I really liked it though.

I mean, mainly because, look,

I'm not gonna pretend I know much about electronic music.

I just, it's not something I ever really engaged with,

but I do find Rufus' soul interesting

because they're one of the few ones

that operates it like a band.

And the way that he described it,

although I'm sure it was mind-numbing for him

to explain it to some sort of idiot like me,

but it really helps me sort of understand.

The gist I was getting to, Barry, was dumb guys like me

think that you walk up there with a laptop and you hit play.

Right.

No, they're actually playing.

They remind me, and I always hesitate to compare,

but it reminds me a lot of early Alan Parsons project stuff,

which I love.

So yeah, I liked it.

I like it a lot.

Yeah, he's a...

It was interesting to hear him talk about process.

I'm really fascinated by that whole having a year and a half

to create an album.

That just seems to me like it would brain lock somebody.

Yeah, because at the end of the day,

you can give me a year and a half.

I'm still gonna wait to the last two weeks.

And the song that I come up with is gonna be

word, word, word, word, word, word, wordy, wordy, word, word,

word, word, word, word, word, word, word, word, word, word.

Exactly. Done.

Exactly.

And the thing we did a year and a half ago, I'm over it.

I don't even remember what I did two weeks ago.

Exactly, I know, right?

That's a year and a half ago.

That was interesting.

So did you find it interesting that,

and this is not a shot,

but he really doesn't know one festival from the other.

That's what I'm saying.

A bus, a road, a stage, a bus, a road, a stage.

And there's really nothing wrong with that,

especially if the show is good, but you know,

it makes me wonder if that's how McCartney is most days.

You know, he's like, where in the hell am I?

Knoxville?

All right, I guess all, who cares?

Guys like that are very intentional now

about what they do from what I've heard.

They do the shows they want.

They've done it enough.

They know how to travel.

But you did hear him say,

as you're talking about the mental health thing,

before it was road, road, road, road, road.

And now they're very, again, intentional about whatever,

you know, instead of three months,

maybe four weeks and then come off.

So-

Well, the other thing too is that I found to be refreshing

is, and this is not, again, not a knock

on the people that we've talked to before,

but we have talked to plenty of artists

where it feels like they are in control of everything.

Almost to like a, almost to a problematic place

where you can't get a show past them.

They know every person that's in part of the operation,

they've got their hands in everything.

He feels, it sounds to me like the way that he operates,

like, all right, you guys just do that.

I'll go be writing songs here.

Yeah, well, a two-year-old would do that to you.

Yeah, that's a good point.

In part.

That's a good point.

I'd rather be home, yeah.

It changes things.

I mean, no question.

I was fun to hear and talk about that.

I, the other thing that I found interesting was

how, without saying it, you know,

I think that there are plenty of bands

that spend a lot of time going overboard

with the mental health thing,

although it is very important

and it should be something that's celebrated.

You know, it's almost become, to me, it's like,

oh, I know, I get it, it's important.

They're doing it in a very interesting way.

It's not preachy, and it's not telling you

that mental health is important and saying,

no, no, no, this was on us.

We got our stuff figured out,

and we fixed whatever issues that were going on.

And, you know.

Yeah, a shot of whiskey versus a shot of ginger.

I mean, it's like you said,

they were heading towards something bad,

and so we gotta fix it, and they've done it.

So, you know, everybody's different,

but it's good for them for,

and I meant to ask him, you know,

who led that sort of change?

Did they all three come together,

or was it outside sources that said,

you guys need to fix this, or all of that, or whatever?

But...

Well, yeah, you lead on to a good point,

because it takes all three to be a part of something like that.

It can't just be like one person saying,

you gotta, what the wife always says is like,

you gotta, the person's gotta find yoga.

You can't like force them into it, right?

So, and it's almost like therapy.

You can't force somebody to go to therapy.

They gotta find it on their own time,

and it's weird that they all sort of seem to find it

at the same time.

Yeah, it'd be like you and me saying,

TACO, no more PBR.

You need to do a shot of ginger.

We've decided we're gonna do ginger shots instead.

I'm hanging up.

Well, I'm glad you brought that up,

because TACO, we have a meeting to talk to you about it.

Oh, no, it's good.

I drink High Life now.

Now we're...

You have changed.

I have changed.

I've given it up.

I've given up, kids.

I've given it up.

I'm moving on.

Dad is back.

All right.

Well, I really...

You make a good point.

It takes all three of them.

It would have taken all three of them.

I really appreciate that.

And there's...

He gave us way too much time.

And I really do think that the...

The other thing too, I guess that's what I tried to dance around without...

I'm just not smart enough to come out and just find a clever way of asking it.

But you have this massive following.

They sold 50,000 tickets for an LA show.

They had to add two more dates to it.

They've got a billion streams.

They're a massive, massive operation.

And they've done it all completely underground.

Underground meaning with no real radio support, no real...

You're not playing them, are you?

Well, we just started.

Yeah.

I mean, their new single is actually really, really good.

And they did it all just sort of the 2020 version of doing this, streaming and...

I find it to be an incredible story.

It panics me a little bit because they don't need us.

They don't need us.

They got to take care of themselves.

Nice.

Well, it's pretty cool.

I enjoyed it a lot.

Anything else before we go?

No.

OK.

All right.

Well, I got nothing.

Oh, do we figure out what we're going to do with the tickets?

Yeah, we talked about it on the last episode, Barry.

We were talking about how we were going to do it.

And we already have a leader in the clubhouse.

We have our first entry.

The first entry in the draw.

I know.

But guys, that happened two weeks ago, remember?

OK.

Yeah.

I don't know if you guys remember, but that happened so long ago.

Never mind.

Bye.

Bye, guys.

See ya.

Have a great weekend.