Hey hey hey hey! How y'all feeling? Who are they? What are they? What will you see? The what? Which bands? This year? That matter? With Brad Steiner and Barry Courter. Melissa Vivian Jefferson, 31 years old and taking over the world. Andrew Bonnaroo headliner this year. She's on a mission. She keeps making new fans, new friends. It is remarkable how in less than a year you have people who do not know who Billie Eilish is but know who Lizzo is. It's very strange. Yeah. Or maybe vice versa. I don't know. I was watching the news this morning. They were like doing like the whole let's talk about the Grammys thing and they said uh yeah I'm not familiar with this Billie Eilish. But the guy who was you know maybe your age knew everything about Lizzo. Everything you could know about Lizzo had it all. He's probably the same one when they announced the Bonnaroo lineup his co-host, co-anchor asked if he was gonna go and he said I've had a DNA test and I'm 100% too old. Oh that's pretty good. It was good. I was like that's funny. That's good. Now of course Lizzo our headliner she won three. She had three last night. By the way we're doing this on a Monday so you know Grammy's fresh in our mind but she gets three Grammys last night. Hardly eight and hardly the five or so that Billie Eilish got. But you know it's still enormously impressive for someone. Yeah it's impressive that an 18 year old wins you know a boatload of Grammys. That's impressive. But Lizzo was living in her car. Living in her car. It's a tremendous story. No question about it. And you and I went on and on a couple episodes ago and we announced you know the lineup I think people are gonna be blown away by this show as you have impressed to me. Yeah. Cause you've seen it. You're gonna throw your back out dad. You're gonna throw your back out. I'm already doing the yoga that and the. Oh thank god. Yeah the other. Yeah the mosh pit, the tool and the EDM stuff that I'm gonna have to go do. Man you are gonna be looking in shape come June 20th. Later that Saturday morning I'm gonna be in traction. Dad. By the way that's Barry Cord or I'm Brad Steiner. This is the What Podcast. A podcast for Bonarovians by Bonarovians. If you're listening on Spotify, on your iTunes or any of your devices stores or watching this on YouTube you can find it at the what.co or the whatpodcast.com. I know we want to spend some time on Lizzo today because you know she has meant at least to me I think that she is the perfect zeitgeist of what this festival is supposed to be and that's what we sort of said in like the line up behind the scenes show with the AC Entertainment guys but more than just that, more than she's just the zeitgeist of the festival, she's the zeitgeist of the entire culture right now and you know what I saw in her in October of 2017 is that she was filling a part of the community, especially the female community that really wasn't being served by many people. I think certainly female but beyond that. It's just a great story living in a car, you know the body positive, she's just a happy person and she gives off that energy. Let me be honest with you, we're going to play a clip for you here a little bit later on the show that's going to prove how much that is so real. That is the realest thing you can imagine and it's come from a real place with her because you know when she was a kid, she grew up in Detroit and then she had moved to Houston, went to University of Houston, studied classical music and learned how to play the flute, became a flautist. Which by the way sounds so delicious, a flautist. Yeah I know it sounds like it should have powdered sugar on it or something. We all spend too much time on YouTube watching videos but that's a great one of her going back to her school. Oh University of Houston? Yeah and talking to those students and that's the kind of thing you see that and you get the sense of the energy that we're talking about and who she is and the realness. She's had an unbelievable year and to see where she's come from, it's fun to me to see those kind of things. Here's what's nuts is like I know you have had young children and you now have another generation of young children in your life, when she was 14 she had something called the something click, the cornrow click. That was the name of her band when she was 14 and I always think of 14 year olds whenever they decide to do anything, I usually always say good luck with that. Yeah right. You'll do great. Yeah yeah. Don't believe in them for a second because it's just so rare how it actually happens. You know if I had a kid that was 14 and in the cornrow click I don't necessarily think that I would, I don't know if she's going anywhere. Well that's it. This is why I'm not a father by the way. That's right and I'm going to sound like a father but all you can do is sort of be supportive. I mean I can remember both of mine saying hey I want a guitar and I've been through that enough to know don't spend a whole lot of money on a guitar. It's reciprocal. The more you spend the less time they're going to spend practicing. But you don't want to get one that's crap you know if it doesn't play they won't play it. So probably some of your parents out there have those stories of yeah I bought them an instrument they wanted to be in band. Well that lasts about a week you know or they lose it you know I forgot I left it on the bus or it's heavy or you know whatever. So those stories for me when you hear from an artist who said I knew from the very beginning what I wanted to do and by golly they've done it. I like Billie Eilish I mean she and her brother have been doing that for six seven years. I guess I get it. It's hard I don't know maybe it's not hard. I mean I walked around the house when I was a kid doing nothing but a radio show. You want to be a preacher too. Yeah that's we're not talking about that story. I thought that I was going to walk around the house just doing Dave Letterman jokes and I was walking around just doing stand up comedy material and I was like oh if one day I could just do this on the radio I'm going to feel okay. But that actually is a real story for somebody like Lizzo. You know she goes to college. Her dad dies and she's got to sort of like figure it all out and at 21 she's living in her car. She moves to Minneapolis and then she gets in with like a trio of women one of which is now still like one of her backup dancers. I think the other one is her DJ if I can remember the story correctly and then she gets the eye of Prince and Prince finds her and gets her to collaborate on a song with some other I don't actually I can't I actually have to figure out and ask her if she actually met Prince I can't remember exactly if she had met Prince before. I'll have to ask her in fact I should have done that before this but but then you know she goes through struggle after struggle and she's on the road with Harmar superstar. Now if you don't know her I in fact I think that Harmar has been to Bonnaroo a few times but Harmar is a really weird weird band. I think it's great. I think he's terrific but it's mostly up and down the Minnesota circuit and she was just his backup singer for a very long time and then she gets signed by Atlantic Records. She puts out an album on Virgin but then she gets signed to Atlantic Records and here's the crazy part and I don't know if I'm supposed to say this so please don't go too crazy with it but she was signed for an amount of money that is it's it's not an amount of money. I mean when it comes down to this when you hear the amount of money that most people are signed at you know what I probably shouldn't say the number but it's not an amount of money and that's what's so crazy about it and I think that even the label started to get nervous and not know what to do a little bit because it just wasn't I mean she peaked with her first album with Atlantic on Coconut Oil at like 44 on the R&B chart but it just couldn't it just couldn't she couldn't find a rhythm. And then and then something just happened and like the she goes on the RuPaul drag show and the audience connects with her and she connects with that with that part of the of the the country and that lifestyle and then it all starts moving. She records Cause I Love You she puts out Juice and I find her in October I find her October of 2017 and this is for you guys watching I hope you can enjoy this but this is her sending me a video I played Juice for the first time in the country and this is the video she sends me shortly thereafter listen to this. Hi Brad thank you so much for playing Juice you know how lit that is that's so special you're gonna be one of the first people ever when this song is all over the world you can say that you were the first that played my song so thank you so much that means the world to me thank you for helping me make all my dreams come true you just **** it. That was October of 2017 or 2018 I apologize 2018 and she's like that spirit has not changed to today. But what do you let me ask you what do you think did change you said she was couldn't find her groove couldn't find whatever and that's always the thing with artists because they got somebody in their ear so often telling them you should do this you know whatever the hot thing is go this route go that route for somebody of any age to find it and say this is what I'm gonna do and then have it work I mean what do you think changed was it just the RuPaul show she found you know she felt that energy coming back was she just mature enough all of a sudden to do what she wanted to do what do you think it is I think it's a little bit of that I mean I've done enough of these interviews it always takes somebody you know there's how many of we artists and I'm thinking for some reason of comedians you know they'll struggle for years and then they find something Rodney Dangerfield is the classic example you know he was well into his what 40s 50s before he hit artists the ones that come out and know early on who and what they are is pretty amazing but do you but you've done this long enough to know that it also has mostly to do with luck and timing absolutely and you know she was being in she was living in Minneapolis I've often wondered the rarity are the the bands and artists that come out of you know podunk wherever versus if you're playing in and around a Minneapolis in New York or Detroit you know what good looks like yeah you know what I mean you also you also have a North Star in Minneapolis that just in case just in case Prince might happen to catch wind of who you are yeah you better not be screwing around it better be good you better be good you better up your game and and that's part of what I'm saying too it's like Nashville Nashville puts the same pressure on you right that pressure is there in Austin you know it's not there say in Louisville no and I want to I don't remember who said it but one of the interviews I did recently a guy was talking about moving to Nashville from some small town and and you know goes drives in with all the confidence in the world and then realizes you know he's waiting tables and realizes I'm not even the best guitar player at this restaurant on this staff you know much less but you see that level you see it in you know in sports where kids got to go play against the best in the country before they know they're good or not type of thing so I don't know I think that the they see it they rise to that level but somebody like Lizzo who is so unusual and so different I mean I guess RuPaul makes as much sense to be a role model as anybody I can think of it's interesting I mean she would she would point to Missy Elliott being her biggest role model because Missy was doing it in a time where not many really powerful strong black women were able to exist right but I'm glad that you asked that question because when she came to town luckily after she played or I played juice she came and played a free show in Chattanooga Tennessee and I was the only person that she came and did this for she canceled all of the shows all the promos are the free shows that she was going to do for this radio tour mainly because by February you know some things happened Coachella hit you know the Met Gala hit and she just exploded and somewhere around March and April I could start to feel like the label saying we don't know if we can make this show happen we've canceled everything that's not paid because they felt it moving they felt it blowing up and luckily she held her word they they came to Chattanooga did a free show she was sick as a dog she did two songs for free in front of 350 people and before it actually I'm sorry after the show I asked her somewhat of that question do you want to hear the interview because it might be a tad graphic again that's her it is just so yeah be aware yeah but here you go this is Lizzo talking if you're driving the kids to school better hit the pause I'll edit it I'll make sure it's a it's friendly-ish get tough conversation yeah you'll see why this is me and Lizzo in Chattanooga back in May hi Lizzo hi hi I couldn't be more proud of you it's quite amazing what you've been through the last few months huh oh and yes and shall you run the Jules pin damn right and cool that's right run it you know it's what you know it's one that is which one you we going with what your guess that is LP okay well I just like killer Mike I did so I did so because we like Bernie so the last few months this is surprising to you um well no it's just um exciting and I think that my whole life you know I've been creating music and I've been performing shows so I've always felt really successful I think that's my definition of success but as my music started to help people and help you know change how people felt and made it more positive I one of my goals was for my music to finally reach as many people as possible so that's what I'm feeling more I'm overwhelmed with pride and I'm just so proud of the fact that people are they want to be happier they want to love themselves that's the only reason why my music is catching on that's the only reason why truth hurts is on the charts right now because everyone wants to be a hundred percent that bitch you know what I mean am I 100% that bitch can I be that of course you are so I find this to be so inspiring because I don't and I said this earlier it's part Beyonce part Oprah I mean you're testifying on stage and you're you're teaching life lessons that's got to come from an enormous place of strength and security from you I wonder if you ever get insecure if you ever get worried if you ever get fearful well I mean I'm actually learning on site so yes thank you um believe it or not what I'm saying on stage isn't to people but it's with people it's conversational I'm learning new things every night on stage about myself and about how to manage my life better like on this tour I actually had a really rough start coming straight from Coachella and I had been beating myself up because of Coachella and technical difficulties and then I was sick immediately and I was just like oh my god this sucks like I'm not I'm not gonna be good enough I'm not gonna sing good enough I feel bad I wish I could be a hundred so I actually was at a pretty low point and I would have conversations with the crowds in the first few shows and just try to figure out what the fuck was going on and like how can I build myself back up from this low point that I was at and when as I was talking to them I realized that that is a part of it that's a part of self-love that's a part of self-care it's why we do so much self-care because when we're beating ourselves up and when it's actually not all sunshine and roses we have this foundation that we've laid down to help pick us back up a little easier so I found myself able to bounce back from my low point on this tour way quicker. So other than other than doing therapy on stage with an audience where do you where do you go for for inspiration where do you go in the low moments where who do you turn to because I mean I just watched 300 people turn to you and last night in Nashville I saw you know a thousand people turn to you who do you turn to? Real therapy that with my therapist I'm just kidding. Shout out to Gail. My girl Gail. Who Gail King. Well you know I have a really amazing group of people around me that my best friends also tour with me and they were my best friends before we toured and then a lot of the people who tour with me have become my best friends from the dancers to my glam team so we're all on the same path we all want to be more positive minded self loving happier people so when you have a group of people like that around you there's no way any of that can darkness can exist they're gonna get rid of that shit so quick and sometimes you know I think it's just communicating learning how to open up your mouth and just say how you feel which has been really hard for me my whole life and I don't know I think it's because and I said this last night like you know I was taught to like be very strong and hold back my emotions to make sure everyone else is comfortable when I was little and it's a part of being a black woman too like we're so strong we take so much on and it's this inherent thing it's this very innate thing but then it's also this socially taught thing from young age so I was the baby in the family but I was always the rock and I would hold things down and but the older I get the more I realized I was repressed and I didn't get to express myself I didn't get to cry I didn't but if I didn't get to cry that means I didn't get to really fully love and I didn't get to really fully laugh and really fully be angry I didn't allow myself the full spectrum of emotions yeah you can't be just safe all the time and I think that my friends around me allow me to go to those extremes without turning their backs on me and they embrace that because they know that I'm late to the party I'm late to the emotions party but you're there anyway that's all it matters you're at the party that's all it matters and that goes into every song that you write there is a distinct message every time that you seem to not just speak but sing there's a common thread through it all well thank you and it's my voice that's what it is and I'm on this journey to find my voice and I'm on this journey to love myself and so I think that that's just if you don't love yourself who will who the hell gonna love you can I get an amen I'm just kidding that's not the same what does RuPaul say you're asking me okay wait if you can't love yourself how the hell you gonna love somebody else can I get an amen that's it right um don't put that first part in there where I butchered RuPaul I'm trying to get back on the show but exactly and that's that was the first half of my messaging on the coconut oil tours I would always be like you need to love yourself and fill yourself up with yourself so that you can be better to the people around you and that's what I was trying to learn but we're taking it a step further now where it's like you need to be complete with yourself and be your own soulmate and stop searching for something outside of yourself and stand still in yourself so that you can attract all of that love that is purposed for you everything that you deserve all that good shit that's floating around that's waiting for you is attracted to you once you're just in love with yourself you might have just now come to the party but you're billowing through the party I mean you're running through it with like a chair almost and swinging it because I mean I don't know when you got there but boy you're there and it exudes from you and I think that's the magnetic part of you and that's the reason why we love you so much well I mean it took my whole life to get to the Met Gala but I went and I fucking shut that shit down so I guess it's Daniel the funniest video I've ever seen is walking through the airport with that jacket on that was great what was the rental cost for that extra day? Oh my god no that's my coat he put my name in it it's yours it's official it's Marc Jacobson it says Lizzo Met Gala 2019 you carry it with you everywhere you go now? it's literally inside my pussy it's like a tail pond I was gonna ask to wear it but uh no you still care my pussy juice is delicious blame it on my juice you know you was playing the song first you know about my juice by the way I appreciate it so much I love you so much and I said this on stage you're the best part of the industry you're the best you represent everything it's great with humanity we need so many more of you so I love you to death that's the goal the goal is to just represent me and so that other people can believe in the me in themselves so that they can do this too I'm gonna do it I love you boy I really really wanted to wear that jacket I'd like to see you in that jacket would you? that would not be something I'd want the wife of yours to walk in on looking at that's funny yeah but you know we talked about this similar sort of thing in the last episode with the AC guys is how labels and management how they know how are they able to predict six months out a year out obviously with her I mean you can you can almost see the energy around her but still well look this is what the manager said to me when she came to town she said we think that we're going to be doing no no she said we know we're going to be doing arenas by the end of this tour man that is I sort of laughed at it you know I'm saying I mean I love I love you Lizzo but I did not see that coming they just felt it they knew it I think that they built it on the data thing that we were talking about last week with the with the AC guys you know they were seeing how quickly the shows were selling out what the return on when they came back to a city was and how they could find almost the exact same group and we're seeing them the audience expand in a way that look she comes to that week that she came to Chattanooga and then I interviewed her shortly thereafter I went to see her in Atlanta just a couple of days later Barry it was the tabernacle and if you've ever been in the tabernacle if you're upstairs you basically see down onto the crowd I have never in I don't know 25 years of going to shows I have never heard a louder crowd in my life yeah you came back that next day and we're talking about what 300 white people talking or whatever the number was it was a couple yeah in Chattanooga yeah it was about 350 but let me know at the tabernacle thousand tabernacle thousand yeah so and first of all I got to make fun of you and then I'll ask you I'll give you the credit but we should say that this is the first of what many of Brad's BFF oh yeah stories that we're probably gonna you know yeah I got I'm in a tough spot this year I'm in a tough spot it's fine and it's my job to you know level me out every now and then kneecap kneecap you bring your brand bring you down Corleone you know that somebody's got to do it but I mean to me this is sort of interesting obviously with hindsight she's a star she's a superstar but no one was playing her before you did and you know I teased you about you discovered her she was probably gonna be discovered she was gonna do just fine she was gonna do fine yeah but what was it I mean for you know this is sort of inside baseball but that's what we're here for with this with this podcast what was it I mean you probably get the same as I do a hundred CDs or pitches or whatever what was it about that well and why then and why not you know six months later six months earlier whatever well radio is funny in that most radio stations can't take many chances they can't go out on limbs and just play whatever they they find on a blog and enjoy I've been a really lucky situation I was able to basically craft a radio station however I wanted it mainly because you know we were in a really interesting pocket of the industry and that we weren't owned by a large corporation and local control was basically just me so if I found something that I really really liked I could throw it on and just have fun with it and see what happened I mean it's happened with a couple of other artists but like I said that day on stage is we took a lot of chances at the radio station a lot of chances on artists playing a lot of you know just nonsense that Brad just happened to like now I'm having to work into a confines of a top 40 format which means you know 95% of this is going to be already dictated to me by what the chart position and you know you know where most streams are coming from and sales are coming from but I there are a few that we've hit there's a few that we got lucky on and when we started playing Lizzo you could just start seeing her pop up in the Spotify locals or the Shazam locals you could start finding her popping up on the sales charts where I'll never forget the first week we played her I mean it you get one to 200 on the sales chart right or the stream chart one to 200 out of nowhere Lizzo juice was like 112 and I'm not given her me a lot of airplay it's you know some overnights and a couple night tracks I mean I maybe played her 10 times 15 times that first week and even there you could see it pop up somebody streamed it somebody bought it in Chattanooga so then played it a little bit more the next week and it went to like 80 from like 120 to 80 and then by the third week it was in the top 30 of Chattanooga no matter if it was streamed no matter if it was sold and then the Shazam you can you can narrow down exactly into your market who's Shazamming what and from the moment we played it Lizzo was like one of the top 10 Shazam songs of the entire city and that's what you know these guys are looking at on a very small level right when they try to find out what's a hit what's working and what's not they use markets like Chattanooga and they use markets around the country that they can you know test some things out just to see if they can build a story and then that story then they can sell to other markets and bigger cities and and hopefully then it becomes a groundswell we just got lucky it was gonna hit now what happens with juice is that juice is such a fun song and such a great song but you know Netflix comes around and they've got this movie that is you know it's a chick flick and it is about female empowerment and it's about you know girls sort of taking over their life and reowning their life and you know truth hurts yeah finds its place in that movie and the truth hurts is a song that's four years old you know but they put it in this net Netflix movie and all hell breaks loose and I'll never forget the call from the label they called up and they said hey we're gonna we're gonna switch singles because this what's happening with truth hurts is I mean we can't deny it we have to go on this right now so we're gonna abandon a single that was top 25 that was moving and they go to truth hurts all because they start saw the data they started seeing how it's reacting and they could not hold it back yeah and within 12 weeks it was a number one single see it's interesting how all this dovetails to what our conversations for the last two episodes I mean those guys like you it's their job your job every day was to find these kinds of well you could have easily just done the market thing you know taking what the data said but you had that leeway to do that that five percent and same with Steve and Brian but it comes with being clued in and on top of things you know there's there is a lot of luck like you know when they if they're talking about booking somebody like that a year and a half ago or having on the radio radar that that they have to be pretty good at what they're doing because they couldn't have predicted three Grammys you know nobody can predict that they couldn't have predicted the movie you know for a four-year-old song that's what I mean it's that combination of luck timing but as you kept pointing out last week taking advantage of the moment look look they get it exactly that's what they said but again you know I don't think any one of us are under any sort of notion that anybody watched that show when she came to Bonnaroo in whatever year that was looked at that and said you know what she's going to be headlining this festival in a couple years I don't know if anybody said that and you know I know it's their job to you know say certain things and promote certain things but I really want to know the truth when I ask them do you like everything you book I mean do you like everything like yeah I know you it's the best interest of the festival but there are got to be some bands you're like oh this sucks I think they admitted that there were some that don't fall into their you know their bailiwick it's probably not what they listen to what bailiwick Wow put the right that one down kids bailiwick I have really do need to do this quiz is that something I need to get checked out at the doctor look at it they're they're they're Lane oh okay all right I'll take my bailiwick to ye old town store here's later today like I keep telling you Brad read a book put the phone down read a book hang on a second I'm getting a text message from Bailey wick it's my friend his name is it would be a good band name but they admit you know but they I mean we've heard from some folks that EDM is probably not everybody on that staff's favorite thing there are some of them that are probably why they hire somebody else to do it exactly and why they probably never even walked by that tent but they were smart enough to see that was going to be a big demand and it's done very very well for them yeah that's just one example there there's no way they can like everything and even you and I have as we talked about last week they've earned that trust where I might walk by a show and say it's not for me but I can see where it's where it's good you know at least where it's honest and well done type of thing I don't get the feeling I don't know that I've ever gotten the feeling from seeing a show there that somebody bought their way on that line up put it you know what I mean yeah they don't belong but a favor was owed or a check was written I never have gotten that feeling well I mean you also haven't seen every artist that's ever played fair point but I you know I look I got to take them at their word when they say they haven't done a favor to put somebody on the lineup I can't imagine them having to do that in the last few years I I mean I don't necessarily see them telling me exactly the truth ten years ago I mean they may not even know they might not even know what favors were called in by a live nation or somebody like that it's not just always been the two guys so yeah we have no idea but so as far as you know the the Grammys as a whole what you think would you think of the the winners as it relates to the bonder lineup I thought it looked good for Bonnaroo I also felt like and I don't know how you are we I mean it's your job with radio but there are years when I look at the list and say I don't know any of these people never heard of I didn't I didn't that didn't happen this year I knew I knew I felt like I knew did you attribute that to strength or do you where do you when you say that you know them is that saying that they were good that's a good question you know the grumpy old man cynic in me says yeah you know they don't make music like they did when I was you know kind of wah wah that's a good question I don't really know because I just thought of that this morning when I was reading back over the list I was like I know you know of the five or six nominees there were maybe one or two that I really was not familiar with their music and I try because it's my job to sort of stay up with it yeah well see that is one that is one difference difference between like saying me generically and the AC guys they have to listen to everything right I just want to listen to everything I don't really need to I can very easily do this job and not listen to you know most anything you know I can I can really zombie my way through this and get a pretty healthy lifestyle but no I just choose to these guys have to and that's what we were talking about last week is like at what point do you just like I am so done overload overloaded well the other thing is I mean you you pick on me because I have memory lapses or whatever where I can't remember somebody or think but one of one of my fears as a music writer is you know you'll ask me hey do you like X you know whatever and you're asking me about a Chinese dish and I'm thinking it's a musician or vice versa you know I don't I don't ever want to be the oh yeah I like that a lot and then come to find out it's a made-up name Barry my favorite new band is pad keem out love that first album sweet and sour chicken so weird I've done it and I've seen people do it you know the inclination is yeah I've heard of them and then you come to find out it's all made up that is such a weird thing that your natural inclination would ever because you're in the world that you're in and I guess I fall prey to this too is to immediately say of course I know of course yeah love them her favorite and then I listen to him like God that's terrible why did I say I like this yeah at least they exist so but as far as the boundary people well that's what a question was you I sort of took this in at least in the industry wide I think that the natural consensus was it was a very weak year and that's why it was able for you know certain people to do as well as they were could be yeah I mean that's a great point maybe those years where I hadn't heard of a lot of people is because it was a huge field whereas this one maybe it's just a few people that's a good point I kept watching last night thinking Grammy night when we talked about last night I kept watching you know I love her I'm a huge her fan and she was my album of the year vote my Grammy vote for you know two years ago but I was still remarking like I kept watching like how in the world has she not played the farm yet how is her not played the biggest music festival on the planet and you know I every time I keep I have thought about the same thing that Steve said maybe 20 times since we've been in Knoxville when he was talking about them approaching someone going back and forth with someone and just not working out and then at the end of that sentence he slips up and he says and we'll probably have her next year I have been racking my brain to figure out who that would be I know me too I mean if if if I'm just spitballing and guessing I say to myself Lady Gaga because it's off cycle for her it wouldn't make sense necessarily but they would really try to get her on would it be a Taylor Swift that doesn't really make sense then I can go to you know the the the rock side and try and find like a by the way Bonnie Raitt was great last night Tanya Tucker was great last night Brandi Carlile was great last night I go on that side of it and see if there's somebody on there that they're trying to talk about I just something has been really bugging me about that so I agree I want to I want to say this and then we come back to that but it's so funny the one of the best lines I ever heard was after Steven Tyler because you you texted last night said this Aerosmith run DMC thing is terrible that was one of the worst things ever somebody made a comment when he first started judging on the the talent show that he looks like a Dennis first ex-wife I just think that's the best line you've been using that for years haven't you it's perfect um it was unwatchable and when you say when you look at when you look down the line you're like oh these young people they don't make music like I had in my day you know what young people kids if if parents have ever said that to you put on the video of Aerosmith and run DMC from the 2020 Grammys and walk out of the room that they will never say another word to you about the garbage that you listen to that was un-listenable last night yeah there's a lot of truth to that there's a lot of things that just shouldn't be redone and that was probably one of them yeah it just was it felt like such a force I don't know how they do it without Jam Master J that just seemed wrong so then you had a they had the big Winford vampire weekend you've had Billy Eilish and the Bonnaroo vet that she is at this point and then when you start looking at the people who win maybe that's exactly you know what they're looking at maybe they see a Billy Eilish for 2021 maybe they see a her for 2021 maybe they start taking these this crop maybe Yola who's a best new artist and we'll spend a an episode later on in the season talking about her but maybe they take a Yola and this year she's on a what they would call a cafe stage or a Friday early slot and she turns into something that you know could get any bigger but that's that's the beauty of this whole thing yeah we didn't really ask them that question specifically did we do they look at things like Grammys I mean are they sitting there with a notepad writing down names it doesn't matter does it work against an artist you know now the your your fee bumps up substantially because you have that behind you I don't know that's an interesting I just keep thinking about the timing of it all that's the part that I can't wrap my head around it's hard it's hard for you to foresee that long far in the future you're you're four to sixteen months away yeah and you're just like I just how are you going to predict the cycle and this is what my point was to you last week when when we did the recap to the behind the scenes part two that's the part that freaks me out you're confused by it it freaks me out that this whole thing this whole machine might be ran without my input whatsoever as a consumer that sort of scares me and it makes me think that some of the things and it goes back to the Grammy controversy of when she came out and said that the whole thing's rigged and you know there look there's some irregularities that I can even tell you that are that are are weird when it comes to nominating people and there is a huge political thing when it comes to nominating people and the even voting in and of itself is strange when you get your ballot do you know that you can only vote for a certain amount of categories you can't vote for all of them you only get a you only get like ten that you can actually vote in and is that you think is they don't think anybody has the capacity to be well versed in more than ten I think they want to control the mechanism and and the other thing too is not everybody that's a Grammy voter gets access to the entire ballot so if you are a classical composer and you have enough credits and you can get you you're you're endorsed and you're in the Grammy voting thing and then you go to put your vote in you may not be able to do best new artist you may not be able to vote for record of the year album of the year because it's outside of your fear of what I'm saying it makes some sense yeah what what does maybe they do we know a few people but what does a hip-hop fan know about classical music best new you know reap Tchaikovsky remake that makes sense and vice versa but it does it does cause a lot of problems I mean it causes a lot of problems and it may it just makes the whole system feel strange and maybe that's part of why I'm struggling and we kept asking Brian and Steve so much about process and how much they know and can plan is I guess the cynic in me is my whole life I just thought the Grammys were rigged it's all I've ever heard that the label buys it you know it's preordained but this is the political problem we have in this country you know they're they're all they're all terrible they're all corrupt so might as well just not trust any yeah because you know as a music fan I would hear an album that I love that got no awards no nominations and then you know something that sold a lot of records that was terrible would win you know it is weird that that we that we do awards the way that we do awards on the music side of it because when you look at the film and the television side of it when you look at the visual arts they they really pare down the award shows almost to the you know to the to the letter you've got the sag said is primarily an acting an Actors Guild thing you've got the Oscars which is you know for basically ratings and show you've got a Golden Globes you got a TV you got a daytime Emmy you got a nighttime Emmy you've got they break it down into sub genres but yet we don't do that with music like give me the Grammy equivalent for something that or not even the Grammy equivalent give me the Emmy equivalent in music well there's been those controversies who was it Metallica that won best what was it they won when they or Jethro Tull won best heavy metal band remember that it was rad because they weren't they weren't gonna give it to whoever else somebody was trying to control it and that's I guess it's those kinds of things that have always made me feel like yeah it's it's bogus I mean they didn't even have a urban or rap award for years that was a big controversy so but the other side of it sorry to interrupt is if it's not popular why give it an award you know I could sort of see that argument I mean if something sells 20 million records are you gonna keep it out of at least being nominated those are the questions that I understand but this is but this is why I and you give me such hell about this but this is why I said to you in front of Ashley in front of Ashley caps I said Ashley I think that you saved music because I think that what Bonnaroo did I give you hell because that was your opening salvo in the bourbon that was hi I'm Brad I like to start saving I like to start big I like to leave an impression no I I think that it created an entire genre of music and allowed artists to exist in a space that didn't require major commercial radio play major album sales and major tours you know they could survive on an just a festival circuit that is that is amazing and Bonnaroo created the ability to have a festival circuit you know it's not a Coachella and Lollapalooza give me a place where festivals existed Bonnaroo was 100% right live music did not exist outside really of the giant arenas or the tiny rooms tiny rooms yeah the ten thousands of twelve thousands the three thousands were going nowhere it was all hip hop it was it was all studio stuff you know the bands that actually were getting out and performing live were struggling they were you know living in vans going up and down their their circuit I totally agree that Bonnaroo in my own I've said this many many times I was stuck in that rut I mean I was tired of going to our arena and seeing the same show whether it was a hair band or a country band or it was the same show right and that second or third year coming back from Bonnaroo and realizing man I just saw 20 bands that I you know 15 of them I would not have seen or heard of before because they don't sell records they don't appear on any of our local radio stations for whatever reason it just completely re-energized and not just me obviously a lot of people the discovery thing became new again you know what I mean Bonnaroo for me became I don't know however many bands on this lineup and that's the best part that's what I'm excited about right but now we live in a culture that if I don't know all of them then the lineup must suck right okay well sort of that's why you and I started this podcast I think I think because it's not just us we're here on reddit and the other people who've reached out to us that's what they love that now it's become the cool to discover a band yeah you know not just have your favorite and not just be that kid on your block whose favorite band is you know somebody nobody else has heard of now it's guess what I just discovered and share it and that's a huge difference that did not exist I mean I'm not gonna lie Bonnaroo's broken my heart in in January before you know when that first year when I was so into Frank Ocean and Channel Orange not booking Frank broke my heart not getting Lana Del Rey early sort of broke my heart not getting you know when my favorite singer songwriter on the planet James Vincent Morrow not getting him the year that I wanted him but getting in the year after I mean but but it brings me back every time when just like you said we go to a show like Davey or we go to the Warren Treaty and we're pulled right back in we find all of these artists that then we're stuck with I stuck with that we're in love with for the you know the rest of life yeah I really really wanted Billie Eilish this year up there you know ever since you mentioned her to us I who and then I went I'm obsessed with watching the YouTube videos with her in her interviews and the hot ones episode she did it's I just like her so I would have not had that opportunity would not have discovered that and to be able to see her live in a place like Bonnaroo is what I keeps me coming back and the commercial world had to catch up to what the festival circuit was doing I mean now you've it's it's a given you're gonna find a vampire weekend that's on the Grammys now you're gonna find the national Hey Ma was nominated for record of the year bony there has been nominated now two records in a row for album of the year you know does that happen without a festival circuit that he can exist on because look even alternative radio ain't playing much bony there right you know and and the stations that are playing bony there you know you're looking at like really really really niche radio stations but because the festival circuit they're opening up you to so many places and so many artists that you can you know then see again in the next festival that you travel to and then the next one and then Bonnaroo two years later I don't know where we heard it but most people now discover new music via YouTube I saw that somewhere is that the stat is that is that where it has happened now that's that's not me but I bet most people know but I think it's part of that sort of works hand-in-hand is they're not relying on forgive me for saying it a you to tell them what to listen to to me that is a hugely that Bonnaroo and then festivals that came after it have created the idea of I'm more interested in discovering new music than I know that's what you say but that's not what Steve and Brian would explain their mission is to be they are not looking to be a music curator for you I think that they want to serve you the things that would make the your experience the best one possible and I don't know if I would I don't know if I would ask them that question I think they would have pushed back one to me because they're not scared of doing that by the way I know but they would have pushed back and said no no we're not trying to get you to discover anything we're not going to take advantage of your we're not going to assume your intelligence on this well and that was the point I was asking when I asked what the mission was and if you remember the first answer was to sell tickets I don't discount that at all I mean you know no money no mission if they don't sell tickets they don't get to do next year's lineup they don't get to curate that kind of thing and you know going back to the point that this is what they do all day I almost could see it where it's difficult for them to say I'm going to introduce you to this person because they've already listened to it you know what I mean sure it'd be hard for them to look down a list and say nobody knows this one this one this one and to your point and I think you're 100% right if they just loaded it up with these are the bands we think you should be listening to yeah versus these are the bands you have indicated you think you want right that is completely different right I agree with that that's where I was going yeah that's that's you know just in my line of work whenever a new restaurant opens and the person says we're going to educate the public about this food buy buy go ahead and give me your check yeah I'll they're a ball bat and I'll beat you on the head and we'll both be happy yeah it ain't gonna work yeah that doesn't work for anybody this is this has been a phenomenal chat we've got some patreons that we want to thank they're gonna go through the screen there and again there's a lot of them and we appreciate every one of you and we appreciate you just for listening on the what podcast.com or any of your your audio devices we need to thank the moxie yeah you take the moxie sure thank the moxie for letting us do this here yeah as long as I don't run my credit card I'm fine world headquarters yeah the world headquarters yeah thank you very much to the patreons and and not just for signing up but for engaging I mean some of the dialogue we've had back and forth it's a lot of fun one of the great perks of being a patreon is that you get a specialized chat room where we basically just make jokes about Barry it's very exciting as if they couldn't do that elsewhere I know but now we get to laugh amongst each other that's official or something plus all kinds of other things it's gonna we're gonna I guess gonna adjust the patreon level here soon so get in while you can in the next few days other than that we appreciate you the what podcast.com it's Barry Courter I'm Brad Steiner I'll see you next week bye journey through the stories that define the artist playing Bonnaroo who are they what are they what will you see the what which bands this year that matter with Brad Steiner and Barry Courter