Stepping out of their box, Brad & Barry dive into the rap & hip hop artists on this year's lineup. No, it's not their normal lane, but thanks to The What listeners' suggestions, they navigate the ones not to miss this year.
Topics: Bonnaroo, Rap, Hip Hop
Hey, hey, hey, hey. How y'all feeling? Journey through the stories that define the artists playing bongoroos. Who are they? What are they? What will you see? The what? Which bands? This year? That matter. With Brad Steiner and Barry Courter. What podcasts? A podcast for Bonoruvians by Bonoruvians. I'm Brad, that's Barry. From the Chattanooga Times Free Press, I'm Brad from Hits 96W, DoD Radio in Chattanooga. I don't know if you can notice today, Barry, but I'm wearing someone else's clothes. I'm wearing a completely different outfit. I feel uncomfortable. I feel like I've put on an outfit that I don't necessarily fit in. It's funny you say that. I had the same thought. Is it because you're sitting in that broken chair? Absolutely. I purposely tried to be as uncomfortable today, all day, as I could. For the same reason I think you're going to. Alright, so we decided to do something a little differently this week. First off, we appreciate you spending some time with us, the what podcast, at thewhatpodcast.com or at the what underscore podcast on Twitter. By the way, just as a little housekeeping, we're going to do the Bonoruv ticket drawing here. I believe we've got two weeks. So in a second we're going to give you details on how you can win those. This week we decided to dip a toe into a pool that we thought about doing last year. We just ran out of time with it. And I felt like it was apropos to do this year because it is just full. The lineup is full of nothing but hip hop and rap music and rap artists. And this is where we become uncomfortable. Because it's not necessarily our wheelhouse. We just don't swim in this ocean very often. No, absolutely not. And it's kind of funny because that was the reason we started this podcast was to go find the acts that were on last year's schedule that we didn't know anything about. That's a good point. I totally forgot that. I forgot that was the whole point of the show. That was the whole point of the show because there were so many that we had never heard of. But you're right, we never did venture into this. And I was thinking about this earlier. Is this going to sound like Dad? Is this Dad going to talk here? I remember when. I was working at a record shop locally when Sugarhill Rapper's Delight came out. So I was kind of obsessed with rap as it was known. And it didn't have the overarching hip hop for a long, long time. It kind of lost me when it got into gangster rap. Or as the kids would call it trap music. Trap, I guess. I didn't know that. And here's where it really, I'm going to sound like Dad. I don't care for the misogyny and some of the name calling type. If it's N-word and the misogyny stuff, I'm out. There was a time when I introduced Barry to Anderson Paak. This was three years ago, four years ago when Malibu came out. And the first song you heard, you're like, I'm out. Because he cursed in a way that you just did not like. Those two words, man. I'm just not into it. I get it. I get it. I think it's, I mean, we could do a whole, don't want to be too, too old guy. I don't want to turn this into Fox News. Right. I just think it's more hurtful for all of us than it is helpful. Maybe. I mean, that's a good point. And I'm not going to get lost in the point because I know what you're trying to say. But there is a, and what I told you then about the Anderson Paak thing is it is a completely different culture. And we have to understand that that is just regular lexicon in a certain culture. It's not ours and it's not ours to take. But I can appreciate it just like you could probably appreciate it when it was different, completely different sounds, languages, et cetera, when it was happening in the 60s. When soul music blew up and white people were uncomfortable about what black people were doing inside their black clubs or when Elvis started dancing and people were, old people were freaking out about it. It's just a different culture. It's a different time. And I'm not going to behoove it. I'm just not going to take it and do it myself. I've heard that argument. In fact, I got into an email argument for a minute with Russell Simmons, of all things, of Def Jam. Was that right? Yeah, he sent out this email. I've never done this in my career. He sent out this email basically saying what you said. Remember it was when it was a big, big deal. I think it was even going before radio. They were banning this and that. And I just, I disagree. I understand what you're saying. But I think those two words in particular, especially the bitch, it's just hurtful. It's just harmful. I don't think it does anybody any good. But again, it is just words. They are just words. I agree. That part I get. And to me, words weight changes over decades in time. There's like, I mean, for instance, my favorite football team are the Redskins. If you wanted to say 150 years ago that that term was offensive, you may have a point. But now the only time that people refer to that word is by a football team. So I mean, I get what you're saying, but words, definitions, and the weight of what they carry do change over time because certain people and certain groups take ownership of them. They won't let them hurt them anymore. So the words part doesn't necessarily get to me. I do think though that there is a cultural difference between what trap music is and what normal hip hop and R&B and rap is, where it is celebration of something that I just don't necessarily think that I'm into. Well, the other side of it, and I have made this argument for many, many years, and I mean it sincerely, to me, rap, hip hop, trap, whatever you want to call it, is not that different, that far afield from folk music or country music. The words are different, certainly. The sounds are different, certainly. But it is basically the story of a people, of a community. It is a way to communicate. That is true. But I think that we all got off on the wrong foot. I mean, I'm going to be very race driven for a second, but white people got off on the wrong foot a lot of times when it came to hip hop back in the 80s because Ice Cube and NWA were doing stuff that really scared people. There was a very tumultuous time. Nobody really understood what was going on out there in Oakland. They didn't understand the cultural fight that they were having with police officers that still last today. Absolutely. So they were writing music about their experience in that system. And if it wasn't for that, I don't, I mean, would some of us even know? Would some of us even know what that struggle was about? Yeah, that's a great point. So to me, that's why some of this stuff has to be listened to and thought of differently because they're trying to say something in their language, in their words, whether it's Post Malone's words, whether it's Childish Gambino's words, whoever's. Their lifestyle is being told to us if we're just willing to listen to it. Absolutely. And I mean, they generally not based on race, by the way. And I lived through all of that. I remember when all that was happening. And I liked that music. I respected that music. I did not understand it. You know, I didn't live it again where it really started to lose me. And if we had a lot of artists that were talking about things that they didn't live either. You had a lot of ghost writers. You had a lot of. And you get that in all kinds of music. So, you know, being said, and I hate to interrupt you, but with that being said, and I think that's why we have missed the boat a lot as far as the generic Bonnaroo attendee maybe not so much as the younger generation that comes into music festivals. But I think that we have missed it a little bit because Bonnaroo doesn't really book any of that. They don't really go there, whereas I've been to a lot of music festivals and there's a lot of that garbage. There's a lot of just garbage hip hop that they put on stage. And I just don't think Bonnaroo does that. I think they're very specific about the hip hop that they put on. Now, I would love to talk to somebody inside AC or even, you know, Live Nation when they were doing it. I mean, we could probably talk to C3 about it as well. But there have got to be some hip hop artists that they put on stage that they said, well, that didn't work. Because I've watched them. I've watched so many bad hip hop shows at Bonnaroo. But I don't think that they booked them in the same spirit that other festivals have booked them. The other festivals book hip hop and rap music and rap artists so that they can, you know, jump onto some zeitgeist. Sure. Like, for instance, there is not a chance, not a chance, I think Bonnaroo would ever book a Lil Yachty. He is terrible. He's legit terrible. I mean, I saw him on Hangout and it was 45 minutes of him screaming, Lil Bo! Lil Bo! With 45 second clips. I just don't think they would do that. I might be wrong, but I think that they're very specific and they try to find the ones that matter. And you can go back all the way to like 2006 when they put Cypress Hill on and Common. I mean, they had cultural relevance, right? I mean, if I look back at the very first hip hop artists that they put on or rap or R&B, I mean, I can't really find the right definition for them, but it's probably Jurassic Five. Jurassic Five in 2002, The Roots in 2003, you know, they took a few years off and they brought Common and Cypress Hill in 2006 and then it really all started and changed with Kanye in 2008. And I don't think that like they're putting people on stage that are anything but at least artistic and true to some sort of artistic value. Well, and that's the difference. Again, old guy, me, I mean, I watched that whole thing, that whole genre develop from start. I can remember covering as a reporter, reviewing Run DMC, Ice Tea. I mean, all of the big names and they were my favorites. I love Public Enemy. But I watched a show where Flava Flav did nothing but cuss and scream, turn the lights up for 30 minutes. They were brutal, brutal shows to sit. There would be eight acts, 20 minutes between each. And all you're doing is setting up a microphone. It's just not a very visually attractive show. Run DMC would have been the difference. They worked hard at creating a visual show in addition to the music. So you do have that, but it's developed as we've seen. I'm not at all here to say I don't like it. I like it. I like some of it. I like when it's sincere and artistic, like you said. I like when the message is, I mean, it's just good songwriting. You know, I mean, that doesn't matter the venue or the medium, you know, whether it's country or whatever. If it's like Anderson Paak. And I think I did say no to that right away. But then last year, if you remember, I came right around. I like I like what he does. He's amazing. And to me, the one that stands out that you want. First off, I'd like to to dive into what the what the term means. Right. And try and differentiate what we mean by hip hop, R&B, rap, et cetera. Now, we're we started out saying, let's do a hip hop and rap episode because it's just so prevalent on this year's festival lineup and last year's lineup and, you know, some years before. But I think that we get lost into who exactly fits that mold. I mean, you can. Well, I got I got a lot of flack a while back because I said Mac Miller was a hip hop artist. Right. And I didn't necessarily say that. But in the moment, it was a lazy way for me to say he's in that culture because so many hip hop artists looked at him, work with him and love him. So I don't know where the line is. I don't know where you draw like I know exactly the childish Gambino probably doesn't fit any mold. And I sure as hell know that Post Malone, if you told somebody one person that he's a rap artist, they would probably curse at you and tell him, no, he's not. He's a pop artist. I don't know. I don't know where the line is anymore. Somebody wrote us on Twitter and said Solange. Right. I don't know if Solange I know Solange is not a rap artist, but is she an R&B artist? I don't know, man. These these lines have become so blurred. And that's so interesting to hear coming from you because of your job. I mean, you're a program director at this radio at a radio station. And you said to me the other day that you guys are programming some country, some new country stuff. I read an article. And where is that line anymore? Who knows when you and I were talking about it there that pop music is now used to be a genre. Now it's and I forgot where, but it basically said the whole line is blurred because country music has elements of hip hop. Yeah, pop music has elements of hip hop. I mean, alternative music. I mean, you try and tell me the difference between Walk the Moon, who is an AJR who were number one on the alternative charts and insert pop band here. Right. I don't I don't I can't tell. Yeah. And, you know, it was a good bad. That's not what I'm saying at all. It's just the lines have been blurred. And I think it's because there was an article that said, you know, listeners listen to everything like we do, like you and I do. My playlist in the same list, 20 minute listening session, I can go from, you know, run DMC to country to Murl Haggard or newer acts. I just pulled those two out of the air. But and I have no problem with that. It doesn't you know, it doesn't feel weird to me at all. Well, as far as radio is concerned, take a sidetrack here for a second. But as far as radio is concerned, I don't think that this is a new thing. I think that we temporarily were not what we always were. Temporarily, we got fit into a bubble. Top 40 at least top 40 for a while got stuck in Britney Spears, in sync, Backstreet Boys and on probably a decade before that. But before it, I mean, top 40 radio were the Beatles Led Zeppelin. Right. It was all over the place. The Mamas and the Papas. You could go top 40 radio was literally just number one through 40. Now, we don't know what it is anymore. It's very confusing and it's almost station by station, city by city, format by format. And it's really as much as I dislike top 40 music, I program it for a living. I dislike it. I'm an indie alternative guy. I like 60s soul music. But it's a very good spotlight and way to understand how exactly things get programmed at music festivals. Well, it's guys like you and me that want those things to fit into a box. Right. That's right. It's not the listener. That's true. It's you know, I need it for a label. Yeah. You know, I need it. So and so's coming to town. They are a XYZ band. Right. And I'm done. Is that because we don't trust the people that we are communicating to to understand the differences or is it just us being lazy? It's us being lazy and it's us. It's us being well, it's us trying to be succinct. It's us trying to say, you know, if you said, Barry, what is so and so? What is Solange like? It's easier if I can give you a one or two word. But is it easier for you? Is it easy for the listener? Both. If it if it works, if it you know, if they fit into that category, which they used to because we made them. Yeah. That's what I mean. Which is why we get stuck with it sounds like exactly. Yeah. Exactly. You're your your worst thing in the world. You hate so much. I hate doing that. And but it's the quickest route. It is quickest route. And with that being said, you know, we are not good. I mean, if you can't figure out by now, we are not rap and hip hop experts. We are not. But I want to go through the lineup this year and find the hip hop and rap artists, at least some of them, and go through it and just see what we think about it. First off, I mean, there's no doubting Childish Gambino and there's no doubting his cultural impact and what he has meant to Bonnaroo and what he's meant to music in general. And if I had to guess, not being a hip hop or rap expert, but what he means to that genre. Yeah. I mean, I just don't know how you classify anything that Childish Gambino does except for I mean, brilliant. That that latest album, Awaken My Love, was so, so good. But I've always had a problem a little bit, not with Childish Gambino specifically, but he came. It happened so fast. And I know he was there in 2012 and Bonnaroo has really supported him throughout. But I always wondered how this happened so fast and how I missed it so much. It was almost like the show lost in that by the time I realized it was a thing, it was already over. And I'm like, I don't feel like I'm even. Well, why? How could I go back and start this show that you guys have already done? It's like Game of Thrones. Game of Thrones is about to start. I've not watched one episode. How in the world do I start now? Yeah, I'm that way with a lot of the Netflix series. I fall in love with them and then find out they came out eight years ago. Yeah. How am I supposed to now start talking about Childish Gambino when I'm so far behind and I'm just now coming to terms like, oh, this Childish Gambino is a thing and it's really good. And boy, if there is not a artist that people talk about more and I maybe it's because he's on the lineup this year and he's just so much in the conversation in the past year and a half, two years. But boy, people rave rave over that 2012 and then the subsequent shows he's had after that at Bonnaroo rave about it. And I couldn't tell you if I even walked past it. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. There's so many of those. And, you know, the reality is we we can't know everything. I don't try to know everything. I try to at least have a sense of because it's my job and also because I like it. So it's not. Yeah, that's not something that I. You know, somebody says, oh, he's a hip hop artist. Now, I'm not going to listen. That's not how it works for me at all. But now I'm with you. Are you going to go see the Childish Gambino show? Are you going to invest your time in that? Yeah. Are you? Yeah. There's several of those and there's several, you know, been making a list as we're doing this because it might be his final show ever. Right. We don't know. And so that's the other thing, too, that I get confused about the Childish Gambino thing with Donald Glover. I know it's good. I know it's very, very good. And this is America is damn near genius. Right. But did he get what he got because of who he is? We talk to these baby bands all the time, right? They have to go on the road and earn it and earn it and earn it. And it seems like he just popped up out of nowhere. And all of a sudden is huge. I think he's just good. Is it because he's good or is it because he had a leg up on everybody else? I think he's good. OK. I don't think the leg up thing. I think it gets you in the door. It doesn't keep you there. Because there's an artist that I feel as though has the same sort of thing happening right now at Bonnaroo, but also slaved away at clubs for a little while. Post Malone. This time last year, I was talking to a buddy of mine who maybe a year and a half ago, he said, I got to go to this Post Malone show. And I'm like, where is it? It's at the, you know, some club in Atlanta. I'm like, really? We were battling whether or not we should play it on our radio station because at the time it felt too, too urban. Like it felt so in your face and so disjointed and weird. We're like, I don't know if we should take a risk on this. And so I got him tickets to the show. And then he's like, oh, my God, it was it was unbelievable. It was absolutely unbelievable. And then he comes back to Atlanta like six months later and now he's playing like the Fox Theater or Tabernacle. Right. And I get him tickets to that and the show just gets bigger. And the next time I six months later, he's at like Variety, like the pavilion, something like he just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And now Post Malone, the biggest artist on the planet, probably outside of Ariana Grande and Cardi B. I think the key there is you keep saying it, the show. I think that's the key. Is there a show or is it just tracks that sound really good on your stereo or whatever? I think the artists that can have a show as part of their act do better. OK, here's my struggle with Post Malone. I had a by the way, I love this line right back. I love that line so much. But all right. So you can tell I've heard that song a lot. All right. So here's my thing about Post Malone. No, I didn't get it at first. I didn't get it at first. And and I was a little horrified by it. I'm like, please tell me this Captain Mumbles is not going to be the biggest man. I am so excited about this show. I don't know why, but I can't wait for Post Malone. And I I think I like it so much because it's so poppy. I mean, it is so pop music at this point. And it's gotten into me. I'm like, I know all the Post Malone songs. I know every word to every song. How is that possible? Yeah, no, it's good stuff. I mean, and it'll be a good show, right? I hope so. And that's what I hear. You know, but that's my fear. My fear is a lot of this happens like Khalid did last year. And I'm really excited about it. And then I watch it. And it's legit the worst show I've ever seen of Bonnaroo because the stage doesn't work. The performance doesn't work. His vocals don't work. He's too down tempo for a stage show. They try to make a big stage show behind him that was just totally disjointed. The crowd's going to be nuts for Post Malone. They're going to lose their minds on Post Malone. Two things. One, going back to two shows ago when I was talking about Little Dicky and I told you I ran across a YouTube video of one of his live performances. And it wasn't nearly as interesting as the recorded videos. And again, I hope it's great. I'm not trying to be negative. But the other thing is sort of going back to our conversation with Jeff Cuellar, you know, how do they build lanes for the shows? Do you feel like hip hop fans or Post Malone fans? Do they have other things on the farm for them to watch? Does it cross or is it so specific? Well, that's exactly I think that's exactly the point. Like you go back to 2008 in the Kanye year. There was nobody else for a hip hop fan. Maybe in 2009 with Beastie, Snoop and Erykah Badu. You could probably find a nice a nice lane there. 2010, there's nobody. There's Jay-Z and that's it. But it wasn't until 2011 when they started figuring out like a Jay Cole fan is going to go see Wiz Khalifa. It's going to go see Lil Wayne. It's going to go see Eminem. And then 2012 Ludacris, Childish Gambino, Yellow Wolf, Danny Brown. 2013 R. Kelly, Wu Tang, Kendrick, A$AP Rocky. You know, they I think they've they've they've filled the line up out more with with hip hop artists. You know, again, they don't they don't find ones that that are garbage. Right. Like Future last year. A lot of people hated that show. But you can't deny Future is a major, major hip hop star. The problem is, is that no matter who they put on there, when it comes to hip hop and rap shows, it's a 50-50 proposition whether it sounds good. It's an interesting thing, right? I mean, we talked about this with the whole EDM thing. It it feels like and I'm sure they're tweaking it with the other stage and doing away with some of the other things that they've done. It seems so genre specific. You remember, was it last year or two years ago where they would have the EDM stuff at at the other. And then they had that other, excuse me, Caliope. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's whatever you want to call it. The one that's next to our camp, right next to our camp that went till sunrise. It just seemed a little strange to have both. So I think they're tweaking that sort of thing. Right. I mean, but but the lineups have always been I mean, I've always felt like the lineups had something that I could go and at least check out no matter who it was. I like EDM a little more than you do. I don't think you've ever been over to the other stage. Have you? I'm out of curiosity. No, I have never done that. Yeah. But you see my point. That's not your you know, you're just going to avoid that. Yeah. Whereas my sort of thinking is I'm going to go at least listen. It's maybe not my thing, but I'm going to go listen. Yeah. And you're not going to. But like I feel the same way about about hip hop and rap shows is like I'll go and check out. Well, I mean, who was it last year that was such a disaster? T-Pain. T-Pain last year. I mean, when I when I said earlier that there's got to be some where they said, oh, that was just not that didn't work. T-Pain is one of them. Right. You know, T-Pain did not work. I'll go even further. A few years ago, the big boy show to me didn't work. Frankly, I thought Ludacris sounded terrible. Right. The problem with the hip hop shows is not because I don't love it. And when Ice Cube came, we were the first ones under the tent for Ice Cube because because we are massive Ice Cube fans. It just sounded terrible. Right. The mics were terrible. The sound was just I mean, oh, I can't even explain how bad the sound was. I was there three hours earlier and the sound wasn't that bad. What happens to that farm and hip hop shows? It's like it's it's the graveyard for shows that just go to die. I can't imagine that show that T-Pain show. Well, maybe T-Pain because he's oh, God, he's just terrible. But I can't imagine the big boy show in Atlanta, the Tabernacle is as bad as it sounded upon a room. Maybe, maybe. Yeah, I don't know. I haven't been to enough to even pretend to. But when you go to like and we all know we've said it in the threads, we've said it on the show. The witch stage has had its sound issues. I feel like they finally figured out the problems and solved a lot of the issues when it comes to the witch sound. But boy, you put a hip hop artist on the witch stage like Lil Wayne. It was dreadful. But yet you put R. Kelly on it and it sounded great. Yeah, I can't I can't make sense of that. Earth, wind and fire. I thought sounded it just sucked the life out of it on there for some reason. And that was another I mean, not a hip hop show, but that was one I was excited about. And it just kind of laid there. And you're excited and then you get excited about Little Dickie and you don't you don't get what you want out of a YouTube video. Is that going to keep me from going to see Little Dickie? Absolutely. It better not. No, because I love Little Dickie. I really, really do. I think Pillow Talk is as fun of a song as I have heard. And I think he's totally interesting. But he goes back to like the conversation we were having a bit ago. Who is Little Dickie? Where is he? Is he Lonely Island or is he a rapper? And I've got a friend of mine who is obsessed with Little Dickie and will tell you he is straight up a rapper. Yeah, he's funny and he is clever, but he is as good of a rapper as you got. So the reason I think Little Dickie is so important. I love him so much. I don't know what to expect with the show. I really don't care because he's just so much fun. But I think that the reason why he works so well is because he combines everything that the culture and the generation is right now is make it funny. Make it a YouTube video, make it a viral moment and make it really, really good. And he knows exactly who he is. Yeah, that's exactly right. I think it's hilarious. Yeah, you turned me on to it and I was obsessed for about three weeks and kept sharing with another guy. Just three weeks? I'm still into it, but I mean for three weeks it's all I, you know, I was trying to find new stuff. Yeah, and boy, and if you walk outside, you walk outside the hall and you ask anybody who Little Dickie is, they're going to be like, I don't know. I have no idea. Yeah, then you show them and they're like, is that real? Yeah, is this real? Is this guy for real? Yeah. So when we asked you the other day on Twitter at the What Underscore Podcast, your hip hop recommendations, who you liked, who you are excited about, because we're not the experts. We don't know. Who else did they say we should check out? Little Dickie, Gambino, Gucci Mane. Oh yeah, Gucci Mane. So Gucci Mane again to me is a lot like, let's just put it this way, I think he fits the mold of that lane as good as anybody else on the lineup. Gucci Mane is straight up hip hop and rap artist, more so than probably any, I mean you could probably find Juice WRLD, Juice WRLD maybe, but not to the extent that Gucci Mane is. Juice WRLD is recommended, Evie recommended, Jack Harlow, Tyla Yahweh. Alright, so Tyla Yahweh, if there is no Post Malone, there's no Tyla Yahweh. So he started because Post Malone found him, and I have a feeling because he went on tour with Post Malone, that that was a buy one get one free deal. You know, you put Post Malone on the lineup, we're going to bring our buddy Tyla, who by the way is going to more likely not join him on stage, because I think that he does some supporting stuff with him. So the kid was a drug dealer, and he worked at a Dunkin Donuts, so he masked his entire thing as a Dunkin Donuts donut guy. Sold drugs, wrote music in the spare time, and just said screw it, packed up and moved across the country. No, he didn't, his mom kicked him out. Oh, did she? Yeah, she found out he was selling drugs and kicked him out of the house, so then he packed up and went to LA and became a rapper. This is not necessarily the path that I would suggest for the kids I own, to do the exact same thing, but it worked out for him, and then he caught Posty's ear. But see, what I hear is the same thing I heard with Anderson Tok, and I just like, and I think I used this word last year, the musicality of it. I like, I mean, the production is pretty high there. It's a little bit, I just like it. It's going to be one of these shows that I will want to give a second to, and I want you to blow me away, and I want you to reel me in, but you've got to. You've got to do it. And I hope that, I know some of the alternative artists and I know some of the indie artists know the ramifications of what this means, but because Bonnaroo has not necessarily been the best hip hop showcase for a lot of these artists, I wonder if they get the same sort of hit that a regular band would get. I wonder if they get the same kind of look, or if the hip hop community treats Bonnaroo a little bit like, a little dismissive. Yeah, I don't know. It's a good question. One of the things that for a long time, in our paper anyway, and in my job, one of the things that was a big sort of determining factor, whether we thought it was legit or not, was whether it was tracks or live music. And I think we quit, we let go of that several years ago. But for a long time, if it was tracks, we didn't consider it real. Well, I mean, that's the case when you're throwing out Drake half the time. I know. I'm just offering, you know, whatever. I got you. Part of that goes back to the whole show thing. You know what I mean? If it's just tracks and somebody's coming out with a microphone and walking back and forth on stage, it's hard to watch for 90 minutes. It's true, and it does help to know them. It does help to know the songs. I mean, I know that I know that everything R. Kelly right now is toxic and you talking about R. Kelly is terrible. And even going to that show a few years ago, I felt a little, this feels a little, but when he released, you know, A Thousand Doves into the air, that was pretty cool, man. I mean, it was a really good show. He didn't spend, he spent about 50 seconds on every hit and just went hit to hit to hit hit. So, you know, in some ways it can work that way. I know my patience for. I wonder how well we do when we don't know any of the songs, especially when it's not your genre. If it's not your genre, genre, how long are you willing to stay? Absolutely. I agree with that. That's true of any music. I totally get that. Like, for instance, there's an artist that I'm intrigued by, Saba. Yeah, go listen to Care For Me. It's a really, really good album. And if Chance the Rapper is the mayor of Bonnaroo, like we all say he is, Chance the Rapper is going to be at that show. I mean, they're best friends. I think they grew up in somewhat of the same neighborhood. Chance the Rapper is going to be at that show and popping in and out doing something with Saba. Because if it doesn't just make sense to me at three o'clock in the afternoon, I would love, love, love to listen to that album front to back because it's really, really good. See, everything that you have played that we listen to today has what I think we talked about at the very beginning was it crosses genres. And you're right. What is hip hop? What is rap? What is, you know, I think it's like every other kind of music today. It's a lot of different things. Everything I've heard today is good. I like it. Before we wrap things up here quickly, we need to talk about the giveaway. If you want to get in for Bonnaroo tickets and camping passes, we're going to give away a pair of tickets. Thanks again to the Bonnaroo people and AC Entertainment for giving us these tickets. But if you want to pair tickets with camp, all you got to do is drop us a line at the whatpodcast.com or at the what underscore podcast on Twitter. We're going to basically take everybody's name that's ever interacted with us in any form or fashion and throw them into a big pot and then pick a name out. And we have to do that here in a couple of weeks to give you proper, you know, time to plan and etc. But if you're listening to this podcast, you're more than likely going to be going to Bonnaroo anyway. And if you're not, please buy a ticket. And if you haven't bought a ticket or if you're going to buy a ticket, let them know that you bought a ticket because of us. That would really help out. You can rate review the podcast on your Apple Store or Google Play. We got a lot of suggestions and I appreciate all of them. The one that stood out for me was Brock Hampton, mainly because Brock Hampton was there last year. Why? I mean, they do this every now and then and bring artists back and do back to back years like Dua Lipa last year and the year before. But what specifically about Brock Hampton did they want back at Bonnaroo? And I have to go back and look, but I don't remember where Brock Hampton played. Did they cancel or something? I just because I know so little about Brock Hampton, all I know is is they're like five guys and they're relatively young and it sort of started out as a boy band and they would they self describe themselves as a boy band. It's not a guy named Brock, last name Hampton, which is honestly, if I'm being by hand to God, I thought that's what it was first years ago when I heard Brock Hampton is like, sounds like a country artist. Well, we've laughed about that before the names probably what about six, seven, eight years ago. You couldn't tell if it was one guy, a band, a DJ, you know, all of that. But my guess is, and it kind of goes back to you were saying just a second ago about how much different it is if you know the act and know their material or not. Really, though, that comes down to whether they connect. Right. I mean, I don't I didn't know a single war and treaty song last year. And, you know, we've said many, many times those guys reached right out and just grabbed us by the throat. Right. Right. I mean, so. And there are those acts that you don't have to know the words to sing along to them to to be affected by it. I forgot that. Yeah, Brock Hampton canceled last year. That's what that's right. Yeah. And I cast for Bonnaroovians by Bonnaroovians again, the what podcast dot com for Bonnaroo tickets. I I feel I feel a little like I've shook some stuff out. I feel like I've I've done laundry, you know, and I feel like I've ironed the clothes and I feel better now. I feel I feel more comfortable in this outfit that I've worn today. Well, let me ask you this. OK. Any chance you're going to go see any of these acts now? I'm going to see Saba. Yeah, I really like that Saba album that came out last year. And I'm going to see Childish, even though I'm so late to the party and I feel like I've missed a giant moment of culture and I missed it mainly because it's my own fault. When something big happens and when something is so in the zeitgeist, I usually tend to turn it off and I ignore it because I don't want to be a part of it. I mean, that's my own my own thing, my own problem. I mean, I'm not saying I'm right or wrong, but I just do. And it's I struggle with it at times. The Childish Gambino is a big one. It's a big one for me and it's a big miss. So I'm going to definitely do that. And look, there's one artist that we didn't talk about today. I'm excited about really, really excited about two shows underground. I mean, I'm going to be keep my excitement level away from you guys at camp. I'm going to make sure that you guys don't know how excited I am about Post Malone, which I can't wait. I'm just worried about the crowd. I'm worried it's going to be. Remember, Macklemore, the first year Macklemore and Lewis showed up. That was the scariest moment of my entire Bonnaroo life because it was I just got stuck in like the main drag and I didn't get my normal like I can't believe I'm about to say this. My normal like walk through the backstage area to the front of the stage. And so I got caught in the in the mast getting to the pit and it was so packed and people were cramming in because that Macklemore was massive when they booked him. And the mass getting in there, I was literally lifted off of my feet. There were so many people pushing into the right side of the pit. There was a girl that fell to the ground and like people were like, I mean, they didn't have a choice. They didn't know they were running over her. I thought she was going to get trampled. Yeah, that's a nightmare. I feel like that's going to be Post Malone. I'm really worried about that. And the second show, I'm underground, really excited about that we didn't talk about today because I want to do another episode for maybe just her, Cardi B. Yeah, I wonder about Cardi B. I can't sit straight. That Macklemore when I guess maybe you knew it was going to be big. I had no idea that that crowd was going to be that big. It was what a three o'clock Saturday afternoon. And I mean, I just knew the, you know, the novelty, the hit Thrift Shop. Thrift Shop. But see, again, back to what we were saying about Little Dicky. He combines, Little Dicky combines what exactly culture is right now, right? Make it viral video, make it something that our eyes and ears can all get, the exposed nerves can all get hit at the same time. And that's what Thrift Shop was. Absolutely. But he had 82 minutes of other great stuff. Yeah, he's I didn't know that. Yeah. And it was powerful stuff. You know, the song about the gay young man. What's it? Same love. Same love. Same love as the hit that they did at the Grammys. They were they were marrying people on the stage. Absolutely powerful, powerful. Ten minutes. Yeah. And by the way, I just didn't I didn't expect that. By the way, this I can't imagine this has not been talked about at your camp probably too, upon Rue. But has there been a bigger fall from Grace than Macklemore? Macklemore that first year was so massive and then they booked him again and nobody cared. Nobody cared. No, no, because we we kind of talked about that. That was the really down year for them. He had a new record that didn't go anywhere. That didn't go anywhere. It was terrible. And I think that's why they brought him back. They were counting on it going somewhere and it didn't. Yeah. But you're right. Even now, even now, Macklemore is like treated as if like by most of the community. I know. And it's weird. It is strange. In the strictly novelty song sense, it makes perfect sense. But like I'm saying, he has other material that is that is really good. So I don't disagree with what you're saying. He's turned into somebody that that people roll their eyes at, much like another artist that we didn't talk about today that I wanted to. We just didn't get around to it. Man, there's just so much hatred outside of like Kanye. I know I know the problems with Kanye and I get like there are certain artists that people just absolutely do not like that that pop up on the lineup every now and then. But, boy, if you go through Reddit and you go through some of the message boards and stuff, there is not more hatred of anybody at the festival this year than Hobo Johnson. Now, I get it. I know he's a he's a polarizing figure. But, man, people really, really dislike him. And he's a novelty kid, too. He's a novelty kid that's just trying to be fun and unique and different and trying to find his lane. I don't really get the the hatred of him, just like I don't get the the way that Macklemore sort of fell off the planet. I don't know. It doesn't really ring for me. I don't really get it. Somebody's going to have to explain it to me. Yeah, I can't. But I mean, it goes it goes to that. He knows who he is like with Little Dickie. I mean, it's strictly novelty, but he knows exactly who it is and he's good at it. Yeah, well, he is. And I think that maybe some people would argue that Hobo Johnson is not. I don't know. I don't know much about him. All I know is I read so much negativity about it. Are we going to do this same thing for EDM? Am I going to be able to get you to do? Oh, I wish people could see his face. I feel like I'm giving birth to Hitler's baby right now. I don't know, man. That that hurts so much. If we do look, if we do an EDM episode, I'm not opposed to it. We're somebody's going to have to drive this ship other than me because I have no idea. I don't know where to start. I don't know where it begins and ends. I really don't. They never do. OK, remember, that's what we talked about. There's no beginning, middle and end. The What Podcast, the What Podcast dot com. We'll talk to you next week.