Judah Akers from Judah & The Lion sat down for a conversation with the crew from The What Podcast while at Chattanooga, Tennessee's Moon River Festival over the festival.
Akers chats about the defining moment in 2018 when they covered "Mr. Brightside" with Drew Holcomb and got a crowd of 10,000 people moving, the importance of mental health when you're in a band, and how discussing mental struggles has come to be more acceptable than in years past. Such growing acceptance was evident even at Moon River, as Saturday headliner Caamp canceled their performance citing mental health as a primary reason they're stepping back from touring.
Listen to The What Podcast with Judah Akers from Judah & The Lion or watch it via YouTube. While you're at it, go ahead and like, review, and subscribe to The What Podcast wherever you get your podcasts.
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Topic: Moon River
Guest: Judah Akers
Listen Via:
Hey everybody.
Welcome back to the What Podcast.
This is a, I don't know, Russ, what are we going to call this?
Are we back for season 75 or?
We're still in the tail end of season six.
Yeah, okay.
Wrapping things up.
So, uh, Lord Taco, obviously I'm Barry.
You'll notice Brad is not with us.
Brad is in New York getting ready for Riot Fest this weekend in Chicago, correct?
That's correct.
But you and I had a big weekend and, yeah, what did we do?
I just, I think we said it both days, Saturday and Sunday, but you know, here it is a couple
days later and I still feel like what a perfect weekend.
Everything just went about as well as it could go.
Yeah, it really did.
Of course, we're talking about Moon River Festival that just wrapped up in Chattanooga,
Tennessee, where we live.
And this is what, the fifth year they've had it in Chattanooga?
Since 2018.
Started in 2014 in Memphis.
Drew Holcomb started it.
It outgrew him and the venue there.
So he joined with AC Entertainment out of Knoxville, which at the time was very, and
their co-founders of Bonnaroo, which is our, you know, dear and dear to us.
But they also were booking a couple of venues in Chattanooga, so they have a Chattanooga
connection and Drew partnered with them.
They looked all over the state at places to move it and decided on Chattanooga.
And we've talked about this before.
They looked at several locations, even here in Chattanooga, including Coolidge Park, which
has only had, to my knowledge, this is still the only gated, ticketed event inside that
park.
Yes.
And I know when they proposed it in 2017, there were a lot of, you know, doubters.
You're going to destroy the landscaping.
What happens if you break something?
And they met with the city and they had answers for all of that.
And the city, to their credit, said, come on.
And when I say it was a perfect weekend, we got rain.
They had to evacuate the site for about an hour and a half.
Yeah.
Nothing like last year where, you know, Sunday just got washed out and canceled.
So yeah, about an hour or so later we were back.
Last year it had rained days prior, so it was already a wet, you know, field.
This year it was very dry.
It took the water no problem.
It was the lightning that caused the real evacuation.
But got to spend a lot of time with you, got to see a lot of Camp Nut Butter regulars.
You know, our good friend, Chrissy Mintz, who is one of my favorite people in the world,
got to hang out with her and her mom and dad who were just as cool.
And her eight-year-old daughter, who I can't wait to see what that girl grows up to be
because she's already a fireball.
Yeah, we get to see a lot of people.
We also ran into Lindsey and Autumn.
Yep.
Yep.
It's almost like a little bit of a homecoming when it comes to our Bonnaroo family.
But also a lot of the AC people while waiting for the rain ran into Ted, the president of
AC, and Brad Parker, who will be a guest on our show in the coming weeks, along with Corey
Smith to sort of recap.
If you're a longtime listener, you know they were on with us last year to talk about the
proposed changes to the camping experiences and the a la carte sort of way that they wanted
to do it.
And they're going to come and talk to us about how it went.
And Brad told me Sunday, and I think he talked to you as well, that they have a lot to talk
about.
Things they learn, things they're going to do.
So very excited about that.
Got to say hi to Rebecca and Megan from Larkin Poe, who put on a great show.
Yes, he did.
That was one of the best.
What was your favorites?
What were your?
Highlights for me was Flip Turn, for sure.
Really that Drew Holcomb and the Neighbors, that Goodbye Road set, you know.
Yeah, it was kind of a surprising set.
Jude and the Lion was really good.
First Aid Kit.
I mean, just there wasn't a bad show all weekend.
Yeah, and it was fun.
Like I said, it just like, you know, couldn't plan.
I got to see Drew several times, both days, and actually talked to him about the Jude
and the Lion show.
And Jude is going to be our first guest.
We had interviews, you and I did, with the help of Bryan Stone and my daughter, Grace,
and son-in-law, Zach.
Grace got put in here, here's a phone, take video, go.
And I'm glad she did, because we really, yeah, that extra footage we got was worked out great.
Yeah, she knows what she's doing, and I knew she would.
But that worked out great.
Got to hang out with her and her grandson.
And yesterday was our wedding anniversary.
Kelly and I, we had forgotten.
Congratulations.
Our oldest daughter is the one who said, hey, happy anniversary.
And we're like, who's anniversary?
Oh, it's ours.
Oh, yeah.
That's funny.
We both laugh.
So let's get into the, I mean, this is September, so it's a fall festival.
I guess you're right, technically, it is kind of the end of season six.
We are kind of wrapping it up.
Speaking of the end, before we get into the interview, do you have any, what do you've
got planned for coming up next month?
You got anything?
Because I got a couple updates.
What do you mean for the show?
Yeah.
Well, like I said, Brad and Corey, we still have to talk to David Bruce or get to, I shouldn't
say have to, I can't wait to talk to him.
I talked to him today.
He's ready to come on.
There are a couple of other people that I've heard of or through from various sources that
I'd love to have on as well.
Yeah.
So go ahead.
I'm attending, I'm going to Cave Fest at the Caverns next month.
Oh, nice.
In October.
That's the second festival they've done there, the Cave Fest.
It's kind of a blue grass type festival, but it's camping and I missed it last year because
I had no bus.
So this will be my first time going this year.
This is up at the Cavern about an hour from here, right?
About an hour from here.
Yeah.
Pretty much on the way to Manchester.
If you come to Manchester through Chattanooga at all, you've driven, you've seen the signs.
You've passed it.
Yep.
But I've passed it many times.
Yeah, for sure.
And also later next month, I'm going to have the bus in the Chattanooga Motor Car Festival.
Oh, are you?
Yes.
With the B-52s performing.
And the B-52s are performing.
That's right.
And I am calling in every favor and shit and whatever I can think of because I want to
see the B-52s again.
Yeah.
That's cool.
Good for you.
That's cool that the bus will be in there.
Yeah, so excited.
Rightfully so.
We get to finish the year out with a couple more exciting things.
So those are my updates.
Very neat.
So let's talk about Moon River.
So it came here in 2018, as I said, and Judah of Judah and the Lion performed that year
as a, there were three of them.
They've since lost the banjo player, lost one of the members.
But that moment for me, and I've covered live music in Chattanooga for 40 years, and we've
had a lot of big moments.
So I don't want to overstate that, that it was the biggest or the best or anything like
that.
But for a live music festival, and I know I'm going to probably insult some people and
I don't mean to.
We've had our Riverbend Festival for four decades, and they've had a lot of big acts
and a lot of big crowds.
I mean, going back to the Poynter Sisters early on and then Leonard Skinner, I mean,
it's a huge festival.
But you wouldn't say it was sort of the young people's festival or the, like I said, I'm
going to insult people, but it's not the pretty people festival.
It also was inexpensive.
Tickets for years were $25.
Up till the end, they were like $45.
You got eight days, a hundred acts.
It was a lot more like a county fair.
And I have nothing against county fairs, but it was not what you would say a new music
festival, right?
No, no.
It wasn't current hits.
Now, for me growing up, I mean, it was always, it's your parents' music, basically.
Yeah, it was either bands going the way up or on the way down.
And so when Judah and the Lion had Drew Holcomb come out and perform, well, first of all,
the crowd was 10,000 people and they were all dancing.
It was an amazing sight.
And then they did Mr. Brightside.
And I remember thinking, well, so put it another way.
So there were a lot of questions going into that first moon river.
Will people show up?
Can the park handle it?
Can the city handle it?
Do we know what we're doing?
With $125 a ticket, you know, that was outrageous.
Just the thought of it.
I mean, lots of people were saying nobody will do that.
Not only did they buy those tickets, but about 55% of them came from out of town.
And a large portion of those folks had never been here before.
So that was amazing.
Then you get down there and you see how cool that venue is with the sun going down on the
river and the museum across the way and the bridges.
It was just beautiful, right?
I mean, you say, yeah, it's picture perfect.
It's so easy to navigate, right?
I mean, just getting there is beautiful because you got to go across those bridges.
And then to see 10,000 people singing along to Mr. Brightside, it was the moment for me.
It was a yes, this can happen here.
It did happen.
Yeah, a confirming moment.
Yeah.
And to go back, they sold out tickets in what, five hours?
Yeah, something unheard of.
Yeah.
And they sold out this year too.
In about five days, four or five days.
So all of the questions were answered for me in that one moment.
And we talked to, I had actually seen Drew Holcomb a couple hours before our interview
and I kind of asked him and he said, absolutely.
That was the moment.
That was a confirming moment for him as well.
Obviously the ticket sales were, but to get up there and I won't give it away, but Jude
has a funny story about Drew and the show, right?
Yeah.
And I'm glad Bryan Stone was there because we sort of get into a little bit of Chattanooga
music history and lore just because of, we've had some venues that have opened and closed
over the years and it's just kind of a stepping stone every way you go to get to that moment
you're talking about.
Brian's a little bit younger than me.
He's about your age, but he's a music fan like you are and I am and he's worked in radio
and dWhat Podcasts for years.
So he's got a good sense of that history.
And so I was glad to have him on, obviously glad to have the help.
He always helps us with these things, sort of make sure the sound levels are good and
microphones are where they should be.
But he also jumps in when he has something to contribute and we wanted him to contribute
in particular for this conversation.
So it was fun to hear Jude talk about the moment he remembered very vividly talks about
Chattanooga and I don't know, it was our last interview of the weekend, but we're going
to go with it first because of this conversation.
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah, it was the last interview we did.
It was kind of late on Sunday when we got this one done, but yeah, out of all of them,
I think this one just well, they were all good, but yeah.
So just to tease, we also spoke with Noah Cyrus and we talked to all the guys from Flip
Turn and once again, Taco hits a home run, so you'll have to wait and hear from that
one, but it's worth it.
It's funny.
So like I said, it was just a great, great weekend, a lot of fun, a lot of great music.
They're so accommodating, right?
I mean, it's yes, Sue and everybody there that, you know, they're great to us and we
love working with them.
Yeah, Sue makes it easy and we made her work a little more this year than usual, but she
she may took it all in stride and made sure we have had everything we needed, which, you
know, I can't just I can't thank them enough.
I think they appreciate what we do and we sure appreciate what they do.
So that was great.
So yeah.
All right.
Anything else before we turn it over to Judah?
I think we're good.
I think we can just yeah, let's hear from Judah.
All right.
This is fun and thank you guys for listening and again, we got a couple more interviews
over the next two weeks after this and then we start in with the Live Nation C3 guys and
we start talking about next year.
Yeah, it won't be long.
Oh, before we go.
Do you remember you said, you know, a lot of people come from out of town.
Do you remember we sat down under the bridge that day?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm glad you mentioned that I was going to it with some point.
Yeah, I happened to sit down because I had to sit down and very nice young woman.
We just sort of chatted and she's from Emma.
She's from Saskatchewan, Canada and flew down here because she said there are two bands
that I think are about to blow up and they're both on this lineup and I wanted to see them
and they were Flip Turn and Marcus King, right?
I think yes.
Those were her two top picks that she had to come.
Yeah, she flew down here and yeah, just traveled alone.
Yeah, didn't come with anybody.
Staying is going to stay through about several days and just sort of see the sights and eat
good food and hang out and that those are the kinds of things.
I mean everything adds up but those are the fun things about these festivals, right?
I mean, yes.
Just saying hello and striking up a conversation and yeah, good for her.
I hope she had a great time.
Yeah I hope she's listening and maybe she'll write in and give us a recap of what she thought.
But yeah, that would be great.
Yeah.
Unbelievable to just fly from another country to come to.
I mean you and I, it's in our backyard so it's nothing for us to just hop in the car
and drive a few minutes but yeah, I can't imagine putting in all that travel time.
Yeah, that's a commitment.
It is a big commitment.
And she was great.
Yeah, you're right.
If she's watching you, you know, obviously you can find our, we have an email.
Please reach out.
We'd love to have you on to talk about your experience and maybe some of your other ones.
You know, I get the feeling this isn't the first road trip she's taken so that would
be fascinating.
So all right, let's let's hear from Judah.
All right.
Hey everybody.
Welcome back.
We're back at Moon River.
This is Barry.
I'm with Lord Taco.
Got Bryan Stone.
We have our special guest, Judah from Judah and the Lion.
Thank you so much for taking some time to talk to us.
Yeah, thanks so much for having me.
This is for me the second time that I've seen you at this festival and I want to talk about
that.
And I Brian has been kind enough to be producing our show, but he's also a bit of a music historian
in Chattanooga too.
So I don't want to overstate this, but I don't want to understate it either.
I think that show you guys did in 2018 when Drew Holcomb came out and you did Mr. Brightside
for me was a pretty important moment in Chattanooga Festival history.
I remember looking out at that crowd, which was huge and watching all the kids jumping
up and down with their hands in the air thinking, this is a different moment for Chattanooga.
Do you remember that show?
Yes.
Because that moment specifically we were just talking about it because Drew and Elliot they
were going to come up tonight on another cover to kind of full circle that moment because
it was hilarious because the song Mr. Brightside, which a lot of people know obviously, but
I don't think Drew got one lyric right.
But it didn't matter at all.
I'm coming out of my cage and I'm doing what Joe's fine.
He just kind of started screaming.
And yeah, coming from Memphis when we played it the first time to Chattanooga was really
special to share in that Chattanooga year.
I think it was 2018.
It was.
Yeah, just being a Cookville kid, a Tennessee native traveling to Chattanooga all the time
as a kid playing college baseball with a McCauley boy and a Baylor boy, Chattanooga has this
really sweet spirit about it.
So that moment and even tonight it's really special for us.
Yeah.
I don't think you were here.
2018.
I don't think so.
Brian, you were here, but Bryan Stone was here.
You don't remember that moment or that show?
I don't remember that exact moment, but I do remember the wave of the crowd.
I mean, they were they were into it and I was due to your music at the time and and
doing research then and even well every year before we get ready for things like this.
I joke and say like you and Drew are the house band.
It seems like you guys are here every year.
I don't think it's been every year.
Is it something you want like planned?
Like hey, let's do this.
I mean, you said you're a Belmont guy.
Are you still in Nashville?
Is that where you call home?
Yeah, yeah, we're still in Nashville primarily.
We've done a handful of tours.
We're going to run down to Chattanooga and play a show.
I don't guess if you don't get anything.
No, it's so fun for us.
Yeah, 2018 was the last time that we played it.
So it's been at I guess five years since.
Oh, well, then I'm totally wrong on it.
Every year.
Well, so it's in the same family like Drew and Ellie are close, close buds of ours and
they've we've gone on tours together and yada yada yada.
So what I mean for for listeners out there, so I'm not, you know, they like, you know,
what am I talking about?
So I mean, I've done this for a long time.
We've had big moments.
We've had shows and Brian, that's why I wanted you to be involved.
We've had big shows.
I mean, Leonard Skinner played our Riverbend Festival.
And I remember commenting to the guy who booked it.
If you were ever going to rob a trailer park, tonight's the night because there's nobody
home.
I mean, it was huge.
So we've had big shows.
We've had Jack White selling out at Trek 29.
And as a festival, seeing the kids and the size of that crowd loving what you guys were
doing just felt like a move forward festival wise.
And I guess that's what I'm trying to jump in real quick.
I think you're talking to the the evolution of the music scene in this city.
Correct.
Correct.
We've had festivals that we, you know, jokingly, but kidding, not kidding, called county fairs
and and didn't really feel like we hit a lot of home runs.
And we were starting to with a new music venue back in the early part of that decade.
And then when when this festival came here in 18, it was a big deal for the for the community.
Just like, whoa, like something like the major leagues are here.
Right.
And that's what it felt like to us anyway.
Exactly.
I don't know.
I don't know if that felt like it to everybody.
I mean, maybe you do so many festivals, you don't really think about what level they might
fall on.
But for us, that was a really, really big deal.
And I think that's what Barry's talking about of that that moment with you and Drew.
And you know, I would guess most people weren't expecting a killer song that night.
That would be my guess.
Or that market that the kids, you know, I mean, the 20 to 30 year olds that market.
And so it's a big, big deal.
And that's, you know, it's probably hard for you to say, you know, because you're on stage.
But it was a big deal.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, that just that iconic of a song, too.
There's this way of kind of disarming people because, you know, at festivals for us, obviously,
being a Tennessee boy and, you know, being in Nashville band, traveling up to Chattanooga
and, you know, coming up the circuit at Chattanooga where, you know, where we started out at Rhythm
and Brews.
Yep.
Back in the day.
And then, you know, playing small shows up to the what was the track?
Track 29.
That's what I was talking about.
The venue that they kind of started to bring in the acts that we weren't used to getting.
Yeah.
So getting to have that and then play Moon River.
And specifically just, you know, for us as a whole, it's like we are trying to generate
moments and bringing people in on our music that don't might not know our music because,
you know, we're at the time, especially we're kind of up and coming young band.
A lot of people don't really understand our music until they see us live.
And so to have a song that kind of brings everyone together, I know this song.
I wasn't expecting Mr. Brightside with a banjo and with Drew and my goofy butt up there singing
it.
It's always really fun.
Well, I have to go back just a step here.
Our buddy Mike Dewar, who, you know, who talked to all that rhythm and brews.
I got to know what year roughly do you think you were playing rhythm and brews?
You know, that's a small room.
Now it was a locals locally.
We cherished that little tiny room.
I don't know what everybody else thought about it playing it from a semi national to regional
circuit, but we cherish that room.
Circo when was that?
That would have been like 14 for us.
14, 15.
Oh, wow.
So right at the end, right at the end.
Yeah, I think it was right at the end.
Right as it was closing down.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because I think we were, we had sold it out and which was at the time for our band was
like a big deal.
You know, we were like, holy crap.
We didn't know we had any fans.
He made it outside of Nashville.
You know, but yeah, it was like such a fun.
So we actually wanted to come back and then we found out that it, you know, it was kind
of on its way out.
But yeah, I mean, honestly, Chattanooga for us has been such a special city.
All the shows are usually rowdy.
It feels like we have like a core fan base here, you know, and it's always just been
really sweet.
Also for me, just a place where family can come and travel up from Cookville and be around.
It's always really fun.
That's very cool.
So move forward a little bit.
And again, I always interrupt Russ.
He always has all these questions and I won't let him talk.
Okay.
So you guys had kind of a transition, right?
You've had, you've lost a member and you took a little time off.
So how's everything now with the band?
Everything's better than ever.
I mean, I can say that confidently because it's been kind of a rough last few years just
with a lot of personal life stuff happening during the pandemic.
Our banjo player decided just from his mental health and other personal things, decided
to step aside and kind of focus on what it was like to be living life outside of touring.
Pre pandemic, we were doing 250 shows a year.
So it was just, it was a lot on all of our souls and hearts.
And now it feels like there's a lot of restoration happening.
Like Nate, who left the band, he's actually playing tonight with us as well and filling
in for our bandmate that just had a baby last night.
So there's like a lot of like really beautiful things happening for the band, which is just
really exciting, you know, cause it feels like when bands have breakups or members leave,
we're all kind of taught just in nature that, you know, it kind of leaves on sour notes
and that just wasn't true for us.
Nate was just in a spot personally where he just felt like he needed some time off.
So it feels really redeeming to kind of have our dog back.
Well, that's the first question that everybody's going to have who do things like this, who
talk music, what happened?
What happened?
Who screwed over who?
Who messed up?
And sometimes that's just not the case.
Yeah, it was like a clean, it's a difficult day on business, right?
I mean, it doesn't, not everybody can, can keep up that grind.
You know, I've been told that by many others, local bands here I've talked to and then be
like, what happened, man?
It's like this shit's hard, man.
And we, you know, just, it just didn't work.
There's no story here.
Stop digging.
Stop digging.
Right.
Right.
That was it for us too.
It's so interesting.
We talked to Noah Cyrus earlier and we've talked at Bonnaroo with many acts.
The mental health thing is such a big issue today.
And it, the one thing I would say is it's, it seems really good.
The camp was supposed to play last night canceled because it seems good to me that we're able
to talk about it.
I mean, I, you know, I don't want to dig.
I don't need to know, but just to, for somebody to say, I just, you know, I needed, I needed
to walk away.
Yeah.
I think it's, it's hard for artists to, when you're making living off of your dream and
it is coming true in some sort of way to admit also how hard it is, just breaking into that
point and how much you have to work to and sacrifice to, to really get to that point.
Cause we've seen even like our heroes, you know, back in the nineties, early two thousands
really have hard lives.
I mean, Kurt Cobain, Kurt Cobain being one of my ultimate heroes, it was like, you know,
the dude obviously it's suffered a lot.
He's the biggest, one of the biggest rock stars of all time.
And so you have to, there's this, I think this beautiful thing in music culture right
now where there is this, it's, it's, it's, it's acceptable to be like, yo dude, I'm not
okay.
Like I need to go back and take care of yourself.
Yeah.
And, and so like kudos to camp and camps team for seeing the human and having his back.
Cause I think that that's obviously it, the dude, I can, I don't know.
I'm not going to speak for himself, but I'm sure he didn't want to miss this.
You know, it's not like in his agenda to like miss awesome shows.
But it's cool that in some sort of ways, like mental health and self acceptance and admitting
like, yo dude, like I should, I should have this pride about it.
I get to make music for a living and get to play in front of thousands of people every
night.
But at the end of the day, it's, it's, it's hard for the heart and the human.
Yeah, absolutely.
All right.
I can see people hovering.
You got to go.
You got probably other interviews.
No, I think we're good.
Whatever.
Well, I got one more thing.
If we got a second, just to go back to the Belmont connection, I know that you said you
played ball there, baseball.
I'm a big baseball fan.
I know their basketball teams made some noise in the, uh, in the tournament over the last
10, 12, whenever it was years.
But what I noticed a lot when I was just doing research on this year's festival in general,
there's a lot of music.
I had no idea that that originated at Belmont.
And growing up in the nineties, into the two thousands, MTSU was that, that it kind of
turned into, if you're going to make music for the recording industry major, the rim
program, they might've changed it.
Uh, what they call it now.
I don't know.
Has Belmont been a music factory for a long time or is, I mean, I saw, you know, moon
tack guys from moon taxi, guys from coin who played here not long ago.
Uh, Brad Paisley, if I'm going only on my memory here right now, uh, blah, blah, blah.
Those are, uh, for Georgia line, um, like Brian Kelly of Florida, Georgia line.
He was the host on my recruiting visit from back in the day.
Um, yeah.
Is it, is, is that a competitive scene?
Is there a place to, to learn and, and, and perform?
I mean, you're performing, you're learning, you're, you're taking, you know, calculus
one day and whatever else the next, maybe not calculus, but yeah, yeah.
No, no.
My point is, is that a competitive scene in itself?
Oh, the bubble of Belmont is like terrifying, at least for me.
Like I, you know, every, every kid from every small town that's the best musician in that
small town is going to one spot.
And at least for me, like I was very intimidated when I walked in because you know, you're,
I was a music business major, but I wanted to do songwriting.
Um, and you go there and some freshmen's already assigned to a label and you're like, I don't
know what I'm doing with my life.
I'm doomed.
It's never going to work.
I don't even have five songs recorded, you know?
So you know, the, the line about the, I mean, I was in Nashville, which is, it's right outside
of, but it's, you know, how many times have we heard people say, I, you know, I went to
work and I moved to Nashville to be a musician and realized I'm not even the best guitar
player in this restaurant where I work.
Right.
Or the, the dude that's playing on the street is 10 times better than the best dishwasher.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, and I think like, I heard a quote about Belmont and the Nashville scene is like, you
can either allow it to intimidate you or to inspire you.
And so I think with anything with what y'all do, I'm sure like there's this comparison
thing that just happens with human nature, but I think deciding for that to inspire you
versus it like crushing your joy or your spirit.
I think that's like the choice that you have to make.
Yeah.
I mean, and the school's so prestigious for so many things.
And I just, it was just in the last week that I realized how much of a factory of music
that it's been.
And I was pretty impressed by that.
But Jude, is it one of those things and, and, and, and I won't, we won't keep you too much
longer, but I am, I'm glad he brought it up.
Is it one of those things where you go to a school like that to learn the technology
and then you just say, all right, now I got to forget everything I just learned and, and
do it my way.
I think that that that's kind of the truth.
It's like the songwriting program is like, they're, they're going to give you all the
tools that you need to be a quote unquote good songwriter.
But then, you know, for, for me, at least I always got bashed on my songwriting for
the songs that I was writing at the time.
And they probably were terrible songs, but I feel like you have to kind of allow yourself
as an artist to distinguish yourself as someone that's different.
That's not kind of cutting that mold.
And the big joke on the music business, as you guys know, is like a freshman year during
like the convocation credit.
They, they took so notoriously tell you in four years when you graduate, this curriculum
will be completely different.
That's what I'm thinking.
So it's just like, I'm like trying to imagine a George Jones or a Merle Hager going through,
you know, a four year college.
Oh yeah.
It doesn't work.
Doesn't work.
Yeah.
All the good ones drop out.
That's what they say.
All right, man.
Thank you so much for your time.
You killed it again.
One of your best.
I killed it.
This was my best interview.
I appreciate it.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Thanks, Jude.
I appreciate it.
All right.
So there you go.
Like I said, that was a lot of fun.
What a great guy and seemed to enjoy talking to us and a big baseball guy.
I know he and Bryan Stone had some conversations about baseball and, and it was fun getting
the perspective of, of, you know, the going to college and what you can learn at college
at a place like Belmont versus getting in a van and sweating it out with a bunch of sweaty
people.
Yeah.
And, yeah, neat stories and love, you know, it seems to be a common theme that comes up
as, you know, mental health and the importance of taking a step back when you need to.
And, you know, cause that's really what happened with camp was they, they were supposed to
headline Saturday and they, you know, bowed out at the last minute.
So, but yeah, kudos for them for, for doing that.
And we talk, we talked to Noah and I won't give that away.
She mentioned, you know, the net mental health is a big part of her songwriting and her performance.
So you're a hundred percent right.
It seems to be a theme that we have talked about more and more on this show and it's
becoming a part of the conversation.
And that's the key.
And that's good.
Yeah.
That's the key is people are finally starting to feel comfortable saying, you know what?
I need help.
I need a little help and that's, that's perfectly okay.
So all right.
So there you go guys.
We will be back next week with another show.
And we're so glad to have got to hang out at the Moon River Festival.
We've got more on the way.
So thank you guys for listening and have a great day.
See you next week.
