Let's go ahead and say it. Come on now, bring it up. I'm not well, I wasn't quite going squarch yet.

Come on. Let's go. We'll get there. But what kind of I mean, that

Welcome back to the What Podcast. We have another special edition. Brian, I don't know that we

intended to start out this year doing so much deep dive into, as we call it the sausage making, but

we've been very lucky to have some pretty cool guests with Brad and

Corey going back before the turn of the year. Today, we have the man himself, Tuba.

Yes, Tim Smith, good old fashioned Tim Smith, we better better known as Tuba. We'll find out why

he's called here with us. He is Brad's boss. Let's put it that way. You know what I forgot?

Damn it, too. I had I had this I thought it was going to be funny. I just popped into my head.

If Brad Parker's not festival. Oh, I have some thoughts. I have some serious. If Brad Parker's

not festival, it must be Tuba. I blew it. I blew it. I had that written down. It's kind of funny.

The whole Brad is festival because he's denying it. It gets louder and louder, doesn't it? His

denials. He thinks he protests too much. If he's not, he shares a cubicle. Yes, he knows.

But I put it on the front line of my sheet. So you're festival, huh? And I forgot.

I'm going to guess Tuba is a little too busy for that. He doesn't. He ain't festival. He's not

festival. But what a what a great get. And we'll get to that here soon. We don't have taco today,

as you can see. He's at grandma's house again. Right. He's such a good family member. Yeah. And

Lena, as I promised you last week, if you're interested in getting into this industry,

today is your episode. Oh, yes, Lena. That's right. And we got another one coming next week. So

if you want to know how to get into this industry, listen to the What Podcast. We know how to we know

how to get you at least know how to find the right people that'll tell you. Yeah. Brian, any

news? I know we got what the the who stage is moving according to festival who gives us gave

us a shout out speaking. Yeah. Thank you. Festival speaking of which Brad Parker's best friend.

Yeah. No, thanks for that. We definitely do appreciate it. Yeah. That's the only thing.

There was one thing someone asked me and I said I would ask. So I'll throw it out there and we'll

let us see where it goes up between now and June. It's not like I need an answer tomorrow kind of

thing. But there's a concern that the silent disco, where is it going to go? Is it is it run

its course or people? This is just people talking, you know, doesn't it's not coming from any kind of

like here's why I think that it's just one of those is a silent disco maybe in Jeopardy because

it's been in that corner for a while and we've talked there. They the you know, the the people

who do this are saying the footprint of the infinity stage is very, very big. So will that

could that be a casualty? I'll throw that out. There's a question that maybe reddit can take

and start talking about. You know, they've moved. They've used that as a space eater.

They've moved it. And that's what I told the person as I said, you know what? I don't even

remember if it's there anymore at all, but they move it seemingly every year. Yeah. Ever since the

small the year that the lowest turnout ever, they moved it to fill space. So the place didn't look

that empty. Oh, yeah, like 2016. Yeah. Yeah. But that was one question we'll have to get.

We've talked about it and and Brian Benson's name comes up a bunch in this interview with tuba.

Can't wait to have Brian and hopefully Stephen back on. Brian, for you guys, long time listeners

will know he's the one who books the acts. And he's a great guest. He's been on several times.

Really want to hear his thoughts on putting this lineup together, but also on moving the who stage

and we don't get into it too much today. But that is an interesting turn of events putting it out in

outer. Yeah, the Brad Parker told us that it was going to be relocated. My guess is at that moment,

two weeks ago, they weren't ready to announce that it would be outside of center yet. Right. And

that news is I think it matters that that because here's the main reason why that who stage

has has been upgraded significantly in the last few years. It is a really, really nice, small,

intimate setting with with the same technological technological advances of sound and stage equipment

and lighting as the other tents. It's just on a scale like of 20 percent scale of size and all

that. And so it's a great sound. It's it's a great showcase stage. I've been there many, many times

when it was Sonic Village, Sonic Stage 15, 20 years ago. I think it's a really fun stage.

Sometimes it's a great place to get some shade. And so well, and I also wonder, and maybe it's

something we'll have to revisit. You know, they put a lot of energy and money, you know, energy

equals money into animating and sorry to use that term, but things out in outer so much so that you

wondered where they taking away from center. And so now they're kind of going the other way. Well,

maybe it's a more focused, you know, instead of having several things, one thing with this,

this great stage out there. So we'll have to we'll have to revisit. Well, one of the things I saw

people talking about that I hadn't quite thought about it yet was that, you know, it is the classic

Bonnaroo story of just I was walking around and I saw something. I stuck with it and now I love it.

Yeah. And people were debating and maybe arguing, debating, commentary, you know,

commentating back and forth dialogue of, well, that experience won't be the same out in the

campgrounds. Well, then some people like, well, it might be even better. And then so many things

back and forth. I don't know, because I don't live in that the new age of the G.A. camping.

I stroll it, I take a look at it. I know what it looks like, but I haven't lived it in a while.

So I'm not sure, but I do think it's important because I've just really enjoyed that stage and

I hope it doesn't lose anything. It's as far as I don't know, importance, I guess. And we'll see.

I think it's worth a try for sure, because also, too, I've talked about this a little over the years.

I don't know how much. Santaroo gets awfully noise polluted. Yeah, it gets real. They think there's

one spot for sure. Like you can walk around kind of where the big village of Bending is. It's almost

like you find that one spot and just I can't hear anything. Right. And so I don't maybe it's good to

pull some of those decibels out and they're brilliant on how they have sound management,

but you can't get away from the noise pollution at some point. Maybe that'll help that. We'll see.

Yeah, no, I agree. All right. Very cool. As far as news, I think we're good on that and we'll get to

get to Tuba now. Right. Well, here is our interview with Tuba and thank you to our guy Ken

for setting this up. Thank you to Tuba for agreeing to do it. I know this was a big deal.

We're lucky to have gotten him. He doesn't do this very often. So very cool. Here we go with Tuba.

All right. I'm going to ask you to to indulge me for a minute because this is a big deal. I am so

honored that you're joining us, but I've spent all morning thinking about it. And so I'm going

to go back into Mr. Peabody's way back machine. It's 2002. I'm 39 years old. I've been writing.

I was 22. I know I was going to go there. I'm 39 years old. My biggest concern is whether I can

play my son at shortstop or pitcher in the All-Star tournament. And how can I do both?

Brian is 22 and he's still trying to figure out how he can be 14 and still discovering Eddie Vetter.

Yeah. Yeah. Never leaving the Pearl Jam grunge ethos, if I could help it at that time.

And I go into work and it's a Thursday and they're like, the traffic is backed up to Chattanooga and

Nashville for this festival called Bonnaroo. Get a photographer and go. And I'm mad as hell

because the last thing I want to do is sit in traffic. Right. Brian is thinking there's probably

a girl up there who's smoking pot and I'm going. Yeah. Yeah. I got what this jam band scene is all

about. Find out what this thing is about. And I go and we walk in and there's a, and I've said

this before, there's some people sitting under the tree there in front of the witch, as we all know

now, with an inflatable bong, which I didn't even know was possible. It was like a two-piece blowup

inflatable thing. And I'm like, well, this is different. Don't go until 2007 and my entire life

has changed. Don't know Brian then too, but don't know him then. But my world is like, I remember

walking in and going to the media tent and meeting Ken Weinstein and like, this is big time. I'm

hanging out with the Rolling Stones of the world, the spin magazines, the, this is different. And

it's an hour from my home, right? Completely changed my universe is my, is my point. Brian,

you've said the same, right? There's no question. This festival has changed us. All of that to say,

Tuba, you are what? You're in charge of all festivals for C3. Yeah, you could say that

so to some degree. So, I mean, is your story similar, dissimilar? I mean,

as far as, as far as how Bonnaroo affected you, I guess,

festivals all the way around. I mean, I'll admit, you know, when I, when I, you know, I really got

into the industry and, and, geez, what year was it too long ago? Two, I think it was 2002 is kind of

when I started working festivals and that was just a summer job coming out of college to go work

Waukerusa in Lawrence, Kansas. So I went to the University of Kansas and was originally doing

production work for a production company and did, actually that was 2004. So that wasn't even trying

to remember the origin story here, but, you know, I think it's, you know, Bonnaroo was always just

you know, for us at Waukerusa, we were the little guys back, you know, over there. So it was like,

you know, and that was back when you really had the festival tour too. So you'd go to,

you know, Camp Bisco and you go to whatever was not summer fest. All good was in there. All good

was in there. I mean, like you could put together a solid six weeks, but Bonnaroo was always the

anchor, you know, like, yeah, so lock in in Virginia for a little bit. And that's kind of

where I'm sorry, that's where I wanted to go with this because I, we heard Brian and I heard you

speak at Bonnaroo this past summer to students and it's sort of this whole, how does one get into this

industry type of thing? I don't know that you do, right? I mean, there's not a school for it,

but you can, right? I mean, it, yeah, you can. I think, you know, I mean, it's great to touch on

that first because it's something I'm pretty passionate about is I've got a program in my

alma mater that I put together. And the premise of it is just none of the careers that are in

this industry or in any guidebook and in any, you know, like it doesn't exist, but at the same token,

you could be anything in the entertainment industry. You want to be a doctor? Well,

you can be a rock and roll doctor. You want to be an engineer? You know, you want to be an electrician?

Like every single career and trade is represented in this field, not just festivals, but TV, radio,

sport, you know, so there's a ton of opportunity there and just trying to make the younger

generations aware, you know, I mean, I, you know, this for me being, you know, whatever it is,

27 years old now, you know, the beard is gray. I've turned into the old guy as much as I like

to not think that, but we all have it somewhere. Right. You know, and so, but you know, getting

more people into the industry is, you know, something that we've all got to kind of do and

work on. So I'm always happy to do whatever I can to help get students opportunities and awareness.

And really it's just stick your, get your foot in the door, go sling t-shirts, you know, for merch,

go volunteer, street, just start, just start. I started as a stagehand in college. I'm pushing

boxes and you know, that's, that's where I got the bug, you know, and some people start as a runner,

but everybody started from somewhere, you know, so I think, you know, not to be scared of the

process essentially. Since we're starting here, this was at the bottom of my page of notes. I made,

let's stick with it for just a second. You talked about your initiative for lack of a word, I

can come up with the KU leap. I'm assuming that's what you're talking about. The accessibility

program that you started in 2018, according to your LinkedIn. But I noted, I wanted to make a

note of that because last year with, there was so many students and I hadn't noticed that before.

If they had been there, I did, I'm sure they have, but I hadn't noticed it to the level that it was.

There was MTSU, maybe Tennessee tech. I'm not sure how many other schools. And I thought that was

just a really, really cool thing because dammit, I wanted to do something like that.

I didn't have it. I fell into it. I had a guy jump out in front of me. He's like,

Hey, you want to work at this theater? I'm like, I don't know anything about theater.

If nothing else, I just wanted to have the access to hang out with people like that's my view and

sorry, maybe else and others. And even if it didn't turn into a lifelong passion project and or

career, it certainly would have been neat. So that, that would, if you just speak to that,

to that initiative you put together and how that's worked for you.

Um, again, that was just, that was just born out of, I'm like, how do we, how do we just

raise the awareness for this? So, um, I'll go back to the university at least once every semester,

um, to go just speak to a seminar, um, that we'll put together. Um, some of my, some of my best

friends are still work at the theater that I got my start at. And so they're happy to host. And we,

we try to bring in other folks from the industry to kind of speak and talk about their journey.

And then the students can apply for an immersion experience. Um, and what that is, is, um, all

expenses paid, we'll bring them up to La Lollapalooza for probably five days. Um, and it's,

it's kind of a, it's a, it's a little bit of a curated, uh, curated experience that way to,

to have them come up and see La Lollapalooza and talk to all of our amazing staff, um, talk to,

I mean, they, they, they, they probably talked to 35, 40 people throughout that weekend, um,

and get to see the festival, um, and just really understand what the industry is about. So, um,

you know, I, I, I donate some money to KU Endowment and then C3 is gracious enough to match that,

since it's a nonprofit. So, um, it's fully funded that way, trying not to make sure we don't have a

barrier to entry of, of your economic state. Um, you don't want to make this open to all. So,

and- So were you the driving force to do more of this student involvement with,

with Bonnaroo specifically or just portion? No, no, no, no. I mean, you know, Bonnaroo's

always had a great, a great history around this. Um, like you said, with MTSU, um, Belmont is

another one that does a lot. Um, you know, um, so, you know, Bonnaroo's always, always been there,

you know, to, to the, to the degree for Bonnaroo. I just try to pour, pour gas on the fire and,

and see how we can enable that better. Jeff McCluskey, we've, you know, that's where we kind

of got our touch point with Jeff McCluskey. Jeff does, you know, we've now rolled out his program,

uh, Festival University to, uh, geez, I think we're at half a dozen festivals now and,

and looking at more that we can do. Um, so, um, you know, just trying to get more opportunities

out there. Part of, I mean, this is why I wanted to start here because it's the, it's a passion

thing, right? I mean, Corey and Brad, who've both been on this show, they started the same way.

Uh, I mean, I basically started my career in journalism because I found out I got to go

do festival or concerts. It's, it's a really common story. And I got right out of that too,

right. Or the fail or the failed musician, right? I can't make it doing this. I'll do this. I'm a

little boat, but I mean, you find out you get to hang out with the musicians, right? You get to

go to events, you get to go do this type of thing, right? It's, I don't, I, I'm trying to think of,

I'm trying to think of other businesses. I don't know of any, you know, accountants who are hanging

out with accountants, you know, doing mathathons, whatever. It's not the same. And I don't mean to

make fun of accountants. It's a different world. This is the way in, right? You just, uh, yeah, you,

you find your way in and then, uh, pretty soon you're, you know, getting paid.

Yeah. And, and I think, you know, you know, we're trying to paint a real picture of it though, too,

be like, look, it's, it's hard work and it's, you know, it's, you know, this isn't, you know,

this isn't all, you know, rock and roll and just watching, watching shows, you know, I mean, that's,

surprisingly, that's very little of what I do anymore is see shows. Um, you know, but I think,

you know, it is, it is real work, but it's, it's that age old adage of, you know, if you love what

you do, you never work a day in your life. Well, that's, that's a good jump off. When did it change?

When did it quit being, uh, Hey, I'm, you know, I'm schlepping, uh, speaker cables for, you know,

my favorite band to, I haven't seen a show in forever. Uh, and now it's work. When, when did

that change for you? And were you happy with that? Uh, you know what I mean? I think part of this is

just, you know, I've been in the industry so long and, and, and I've just seen a lot of shows,

you know? And so it's just, it's one of those like, yeah, I love the Foo Fighters, but man,

I've probably seen those guys 30, 30, 30 times, you know? So, um, so I think that's part of it. And

just, you know, also, um, you know, a lot of my role has been around, you know, safety and security

trying to see a headliner set or something. It's like, that's usually when we're looking at egress

and trying to make sure that we've got the outbound, you know, teed up appropriately there.

So, um, but as far as an inflection point on that, I don't, you know, it's kind of been a slow,

slow process, you know, but I think that's the, that's the other message for the,

for the, for the young ones to come in. It's like, you can certainly be passionate about music and

entertainment. Um, but that's, that's not a requirement. Um, you know,

yeah, be good at what you're doing, right? Show up. I mean, show up. I, I still love, love what I do

every single day, regardless of which, which show I'm involved with. So speaking of what you do

every single day, uh, tuba, Tim Smith, uh, your, your, your legal name, director of festivals

and strategic initiatives. What does that mean? Fancy title. That means, uh, you know, I'll,

I'll catch whatever, whatever darts are thrown my way. Um, logistics essentially, is that,

is that one word? Uh, that's a good question. Uh, you know, now you're forcing me to try to

think through it. Um, so, you know, so the, the, I'm, I'm directly involved in three festivals,

uh, which is, um, Bonnaroo, Swain Yosef in Chicago and Lollapalooza. Um, so I'm either the

festival director, the executive producer for those, those three. Um, but then I also have

oversight of all of our brands. Um, so that's including some of the internationals. So the,

the, the, the reason for that is because of kind of the organic evolution of C3 and how, um, you

know, C3 has grown and we've, you know, like with, with the Bonnaroo, with Bonnaroo coming into our

portfolio, AC Entertainment, you know, the Brad's, the Corey's, the, the Brian Benson's kind of fold

into our mix. So we've got these different components. Um, and it's, it's my job to make

sure that we're, we're putting the components together in a way that gives us, you know, a

standard, um, you know, standard, you know, standardize is a bad word for it, but just a,

a minimum standard for how we, we produce our events. Um, and that's everything from,

you know, the nuts and bolts of gates and, and, and, uh, restrooms and things like that,

but also down to, you know, we've got a process when it comes to doing on sales and we've got

a process around, um, you know, just how we operate the company. So, um, and that just,

that just gives us, you know, better, better information to be able to try to make decisions

and try to see market trends to be able to follow, um, and try to just improve the experience and the

product for the, for the customer and the fan. So if I, if I were to compare it to a sports

environment, it sounds a lot like just kind of like the general manager of a sports team,

they have to deal with salaries. They have to deal with the ticket takers. They have to deal with the,

the, the, the field, um, man, you know, the, the landscape of the field, like a little bit of

everything. That's kind of how that sounded to me. And so maybe a simple answer is just general

manager of all things festivals. It sounds like, and that's, that's, and that's a long list, right?

I mean, that's a long list. Yeah. Uh, you know, but, but at the same token, like,

I really believe that, you know, C3 has got the best in the business. And so I can't take,

I can't take much credit. I'm just trying to help guide and just try to enable everybody to, to,

to, you know, do their job in the best way that we can. So along those lines, and this is where

I wanted to go. So things like ticket taking, website, uh, you know, safety, those things,

I assume can be pretty, pretty similar for events. How much do you have to worry about

Lollapalooza being different than Bonnaroo from a fan experience? And I'm thinking like lineup or

whatever, or can they be, you don't want them to be identical, right? You want different experiences.

So where does that sort of change? Does that make sense? Uh, you know, I think that, you know,

I've probably slipped up by saying it's a, you know, there's some templatization to this because

it's really a matter of respecting the brand and respecting the fans and what, you know,

Bonnaroo and Lollah and ACL have been around for a long time. Yeah. And so we need to, we, you know,

we need to factor in the past and respect that, but also try to make these brands relevant for

today's, you know, market and today's fan, you know? And so being, being responsive to that is,

and respectful of that, I think is the, is the key piece of that. So, um, you know, and that goes into,

you know, new brands that we're starting the rail birds of the world, the, you know,

Ocean's Calling, Seagr Nows, you know, those, those brands, it's like, well, what, what is the,

what's the origin story for them? They're just, they're at the starting line. So how do we,

how do we make sure it's not just a, Hey, we got stages in the field that are going to have a band.

It's like, what do you, what do you feel when you go to these events? What do you take away from

that? Cause that's ultimately what, that's ultimately what people want is the experience.

And that's, I mean, fundamentally that's why Bonnaroo is, you know, top of the chart.

That's the root of my question. And I keep thinking about Brad, as you know, was on a couple of weeks

ago and Brian, I don't know. I mean, if it's stuck in your brain, like it did with me,

but the fact that people wanted to do a kickball tournament, I mean, that just,

that just blows my mind. I, I get it a hundred percent, you know, and, and to Brad's credit,

it's like, they didn't say no. It's just, how do we make a kickball tournament work at Bonnaroo?

And that's the kind of thing in my mind that makes it different, makes it unique. The fact that he

would even consider it, you know what I mean? And that's to, to, to my point of your question,

my point of the question and to your answer, you know, Lala maybe doesn't want to kickball

tournament, but rail birds might or something, you know what I mean? And that's what makes it

fun and different. Yeah. Agreed. Yeah. Well, the biggest thing you've done, um, that we can,

you know, noticeably tell, and we, from what we heard you talk about last year, we'll get to the

specific specifics, but it's infrastructure with the, with, with the, the farm. And there's been

a lot of changes over the years, but if you didn't know any better and you just, you had a, just kind

of a, an Instagram aerial view, right? Like you wouldn't think this isn't that much different. It

isn't that much different, but from, from bathrooms, flushable toilets to, to the throwing in more

asphalt where we're past, we're, we're dustier and just an earth. A lot of times people don't want

their, their sacred land messed with. Um, everybody's pretty happy about the bathrooms. Well,

I think we can all agree on that, but, um, and you came in with under this, uh, title in 2019.

Is that correct? Uh, yeah. I mean, I've been with, yeah, I've been with C3 since 20. Well, I've,

I was a contractor before 2013, but I took full, full time in 2013 with C3. And then, uh, first

touch point was 2015, uh, with, with Bonnaroo. Uh, but that was just kind of coming in and trying to,

um, just learn. And I, I've been a close friend and colleague with, uh, Steve Feener, who was the

festival director on the superfly side for, for years. Um, and he's, he's one of my mentors. And

so, um, you know, it was, uh, you know, so that was really kind of that, uh, first, first touch

point with Bonnaroo. Well, my question was going to be mostly around the fact that if 2019, a lot

of changes, uh, on, uh, infrastructureally are happening and then 2020 is the ultimate change

for everybody. Let's go ahead and say it. Come on now, bring it up. I'm not, well, I wasn't quite

going squashed yet. Come on now, let's go ahead and get into it. We'll get there. But what kind,

I mean, that must've been a wild time. You're, you know, you're, you're, you're, you're making

changes because that's what you're going to do as far as we're just, I'm talking changes like just

aesthetically. Um, and then the 2020 thing hits us all and everything's now changing. Every industry

is pivoting just because they can for right or wrong, better or worse. That must've been a wild

time too, because you were given maybe even more opportunity to make change because at that point,

no one was going to complain. They just wanted their Bonnaroo back. Right. Yeah. I mean that,

you know, uh, you know, full transparency, you know, with, with Bonnaroo, like this is,

this is one of the greatest challenges of my career. Um, just because there's, there's never

been a handoff of a major brand. So essentially what happened in that time period is that

D3 stepped in and AC and Superfly stepped out, um, due to the, you know, the acquisition that way. So,

um, and that's never happened. There's no, there's no, you know, there's no guidebook for it. Like,

how do you, how do you hand off, you know, a major music festival that way? And, you know,

one of the most unique ones in the world, by the way. Yeah. You know, one of the best, you know,

so it's like, um, and so that, you know, that prompted me to ask a handful of questions of just,

you know, how do we, how do we go about this? How do we, you know, what, what, what can we do to

improve the fan experience here? Um, and, and that, that goes a bunch of different directions,

uh, especially with Bonnaroo of just, you know, how do we, you know, what things that I may see

not being a lot, you know, a lifelong Bonaroovian that I'm like, oh, we got, it's hot out here. We

got to fix, we got to fix the heat and it's dusty, you know, and I pretty quickly realized I'm like,

everybody knows exactly what they're getting into out here. You know, like, I don't, you know,

this is, you know, these, and these are problems that may not be fixable. Um, you know, and so I

shouldn't say problem. These are, these are items that are not fixable. So, you know, I think also

challenging the team of like, I just, you know, why are, why do we do, you know, X, why do we do

this? And the only answer that's the wrong answer is because that's how we've always done it.

Well, that's true in everything. Yeah.

You know, and so, um, and that, that leads into a bunch of stuff where like,

you know, again, infrastructure is boring. If infrastructure is done right, you never notice it,

you know? And so, um, you know, but when you look at, when you look at the customer experience

coming in and having to wait just to get to the toll, to be able to start setting up your camp,

you know, whether that was six, eight, 12 hours in the past. And I'm like,

we just have to fix that. I don't, you know, however we're going to do it, we've got to figure

out how to fix that. Um, so we, you know, we went down the rabbit hole on both exterior and interior

on how we, how we bring cars onto the site, but also how we park them, you know, it's like,

we get a more efficient parking plan and a clearer, you know, clearer plan that way, you know, again,

it's all, how do we, how do we get the fans set up in their camp and enjoying the experience that

we've worked so hard to build versus having, having, you know, somebody waiting in traffic

for that long. But how much did that, how much did it weigh in, uh, too, because I mean, we've

heard those stories. People say I waited in line 14 hours and then I'm still going back. I love it.

You know what I mean? I can't, there aren't too many businesses that, that can, can say that,

you know, I'll tell you though, that, that, that was wearing off. It was where I was going to say,

and, and, and with, with COVID that, you know, there's suddenly a, you know, a shift of like,

all of a sudden, you know, people forgot if I could, if I could take a time machine back and

we could drive around the site on a golf cart in 2015 and then come back to today, you know,

I think it would be, you know, I think it would be stark, you know? And again, that doesn't mean

2015 was any lesser of an event than what we do this year, but, you know, you know, things like

drainage, you know, the, the hurricane year in 2021, that was one that really just brought things

to a full upfront where we need to, we need to, you know, better position ourselves to be able to,

I don't know that we could take a direct hit from a hurricane, but like if a, you know, if it's a wet

rainy year, we had to make sure that, you know, the, the farm is ready for, ready for people and

safe for people. And so that's where roads and, you know, like, I mean, the, the, the main stage

field that, that used to flood. I don't know if you guys remember that, like when it would rain hard,

like it would, it would flood. And so we-

The walk around from which to what was treacherous.

Yeah.

So they put that bridge in for years. That was like that, the runoff and everything else.

And yeah, it just see I, I'm, I'm assuming that I'd wanted to get to the 21 year a little bit.

We can do that a little bit later potentially, but I'm sure you, you found some, some exposure of,

of, of drainage that you wouldn't have seen. Cause generally we're pretty dry in June. I mean,

usually it's pretty dry. I mean, we had some, some bad ones occasionally, but yeah, I bet that was

eye opening.

Well, let's go ahead and bring up the squarch. And not to pick.

25 minutes in here.

No, not to pick. Part of the reason to, we even know who you are is because you spoke at,

to a group of students last year and mentioned the squarch. Cause one of the students said,

what, you know, what is a lesson that you've learned?

Yeah. Excellent answer by the way, that day.

And yeah, I was an outstanding answer and you, you know, you copped to it.

You were a big part of the whole, I'll let you tell the story, but, and I, and I bring it up,

not because it's funny and I'm being snide, but it illustrates to me just how much this

festival means to people and how something like an arch can symbolize so many things to so many

people, right? From a fan point of view, from our point of view, from your point of view, it's,

it's really pretty important. So I mean, we can ask questions or you can go ahead and relate your,

your involvement in it.

Yeah. Can you just kind of stay, can you kind of timeline that one a little bit?

I mean, we all mostly know that.

I can try to resurrect the timelines there, but one of the things that we were looking at was,

you know, just like, how do, again, how do we improve, you know, what can we, what can we,

you know, kind of pour gas on the fire and try to augment or improve with the festival.

And the arch was one that's, I mean, it's, I'm not going to tell you guys anything. You don't

already know that the arch is iconic to Bonnaroo. You know, it gets redesigned every year.

You know, but the reality that it set in when I, again, I started kind of poking my head under

the hood a little bit as I went, you know, I, I went and stood inside the thing and like,

Yeah, there's a door you could have gone in the old wood arch. I've been in there. Yes.

Probably wasn't allowed, but I was there.

You know, but, you know, you, you know, I went and stood inside the thing and like the entire

thing's made of wood and it's been outdoors in Tennessee, you know, middle Tennessee for 20

years. And like, you know, a stiff breeze comes and you can hear the thin creek. And I'm like,

this is just, I can't, I can't look past this. And so we looked at it and it's like,

this is just, this is not safe.

How far out was this from the show? Was this, was this months, six months out?

I think we started, we started talking about it. You know, I mean, again, it was one that we're

like, how do we, how do we just, how do we, how do we bring the arch into today?

You know, it's the pictures that surfaced on Reddit of it on fire when it was being

burned that everybody lost their shit about that was getting pretty close to show time.

It was like, what's going on here? They're burning down the farm.

Well, I thought we was that, uh, geez, I'm losing the timeline. I want to say six weeks.

It was pretty darn close. It was, it might've been, I think it was farther out than that.

It was a couple of months, but I think the, uh, it's still close. Yeah. Yeah. Too close. Um,

and so, you know, the reality was like, okay, well, this thing's not safe. What's the best

way to take it down? You know, like how do we deconstruct it? And it's like, well,

part of it's made it, it's tender. It's tender, you know? And so we were like,

you know, and that's, you know, that's a miss on our part of just like, you know, like, look,

we'll, we'll burn it. The thing, the thing was on the ground in, in less than 10 minutes.

Who's the mole that took the picture with you guys and sent it off to,

I mean, yeah, I mean, look, it's, you know, where, when there are smoke, there's fire.

You can see it from a long ways away. Right. So, um, so anyway, so that, so, you know, that, uh,

you know, that happened. And then, you know, and the whole, the whole intent was like, how do we,

how do we bring in an arch? We want to have one of a video component to it. We want to make it

more immersive. We want to, you know, just bring this to life. Um, and as we were working through

the structure side of that, like it, it started becoming apparent that it's like, we can't,

we're, we're out of time to be able to, to be able to make this fabrication to do it right.

You know? Um, and so, um, you know, and then, you know, I was like, look, we can, I said, I can,

you know, I can come up with the design, but with off the shelf parts. Um, and what that,

that's really what everybody ended up seeing is just, you know, and the intent with that, again,

this is all with the best of intentions. This was, you know, we, we wanted to really do something

that was going to improve this for the fans. And so I was like, well, look, we'll, we'll put a

video screen up there that literally is bigger than the old arch, you know? And so we could put,

you know, and then the ideas started coming up like, well, we can, we can go and render

all of the old arch designs in there. We can, you know, like the, the, the content options are,

are boundless, you know, but it's also this giant black monolith out there, um, that just,

you know, didn't, didn't resonate, you know, and, and one thing that's, that's great about

Bonnaroo fans is they will let you know, um, you know, and so this is my point again, it's not,

I don't mean it pile on, I mean, people care. It's the passion thing. That's the whole point to me.

Yeah. For me, I mean, we, we came in early for the media, uh, walkthrough on that Wednesday or

whatever day it was mainly because we wanted to get our eyes on this, on the squarch.

And in the daytime at noon or whatever time we were there,

boy, I know I was being a, you know, a snot about it. I was like, this is what they're doing.

And, but later on at night in the next two days, I saw it from a distance at night and I was like,

Oh, with the video screens, I, with the video, and now I see what they're talking about. Now,

I didn't know where you were going to make this. I mean, incredible new led. I mean, that thing,

geez, man, what a, what a job on the arch. Now I got, it's a gorgeous, the prettiest has ever been,

but I couldn't get that far at that point. So even with, but so yeah, it was, it was a prototype. I

mean, essentially not a great prototype, but it was a prototype for what you, for your, for what

your vision was eventually. I mean, I think that, you know, you know, the root point here is like,

we've, we've got to be brave. You know, the founders, you know, Rick and Ashley and, and

Carrie and the team, those guys, you know, the bravery that it took to go out there in a field

and do something of this scale is just crazy. And so, you know, and, and that's, that's really kind

of the ethos of the, you know, of Bonnaroo, but also the festival industry. It's like, you gotta,

you gotta take a, you gotta take a leap and hope that it's something that resonates and, and, and,

and sticks around. And so, you know, what, you know, and so how are we going to do that? How are

we going to continue to move Bonnaroo, you know, forward and evolve and make it better? And so,

you know, that was a, you know, I think with that in mind, like the squarch was a miss,

but I think it's also one that like now can, can live in, live in Bonnaroo lore, you know, so

there's, and that's, you know, that's not the only miss that, that, that we, and I have had with

Bonnaroo, but I think the list of things that we've tried and executed to improve the festival is way

longer than, than the misses. Along those lines. So how do you, who is the part of the team that says,

no, you know, a kickball, you know, it's a good question. We can, we can try a kickball. Let's go

try. We can try a squarch. How many people are in that team? I guess is part of my question that

says, eh, okay. I like the idea, but no. It's, it's a, it's a small group. You know, I think,

you know, my boss is a weigh in on it to some degree, but I mean, we really have deference to,

to like Corey and Brad, those guys have lived the festival, you know, and it's like, you know,

those guys are really the, you know, in my opinion, the kind of the breathing heart and soul of

everything we do out there just cause they, they live it and they experience it. So, but we're,

we're constantly, I mean, year round, we're trying to come up with, you know, what are, what are new

ideas, what are new, new things that we can do. That's, that's where the infinity stage kind of

came in. That was one that kind of came our way. And it was like, huh, I don't know. That's, that

would be, that would be cool. And then we, you know, we shipped, shipped Brad over to Thailand

to go check it out in person. And he was like, yeah, this is it. This is, this thing's awesome.

So let me ask that along those lines, cause y'all, you guys put a hard shift,

if that's the right word into EDM back in, you know, whatever, six, seven, eight years ago,

almost 10 years ago. And you know, Brian and I are, we're not EDM guys. So I mean, for us,

that was like, oh my God, you know, yeah, it used to be what happened to my jam band. What happened

to my jam band festival? And now it's an EDM festival. How, what was that conversation like?

Cause you guys, I mean, you were way ahead of the curve. You made the right choice for sure.

Yeah. You, you saw something coming. What was that conversation like?

You know, I think that's a great question. And full transparency, I'm not, I'm not in the middle

of the talent buying side. I certainly, I'm, you know, I mean, again, Benson and Bobby Clay are

some of the best at that. And you know, I think it's, you know, when we talk about this stuff,

it's for me, it's, it's top end. And I'm like, okay, if you guys think that's, that's good,

then great. I'm guessing your opinion counts in this room though. I would, it does, it does. And

you know, but again, I, I'm, I'm fully aware that my own musical preferences are, are, are not what's

going to, you know, check it at the door. You know, so, and I, I always, I always joke. I'm like the,

the artists that I would put on my own festival, not going to sell any tickets. Nobody's, it would

be me and about three other people. I think it does. We'll all go together too. We'll have our own.

Yeah. If I could, if I got a festival on top of that, like, oh, there's only 10 people here.

It's real comfortable. Yeah. Anybody seen the Eric Cartman, South park, Eric Cartman land,

where he buys the amusement park and he's the only one that can go. That'd be a good one to reference.

Sorry. But, but I think that, you know, the root of that question is like, you know, we,

we want to be responsive to, you know, I mean, you know, we've had rock and roll out there. And I,

I think now we've kind of, you know, one of the things I love is like, you've got corn and you've

got, who do we have ICP last year? No, no, no, no. Guar. Guar. You know, we got mega death this year.

And I'm like, I just, I just love, I just love that we've got, you know, kind of a toehold

for that in, you know, at this festival. But I think, you know, it's, it's really,

you know, EDM is, is a big, a big part of what, you know, the, the core fan wants to see.

And so we've got to be responsive to that. You know, we, we need to, we need to give the fans what

they want. And, and, and, and that's where the, the, the real trick with talent buying comes in with

Benson and the, and the team is they, it's their job to book what people are going to want, you know,

it's kind of the, you don't know, you don't know that you, you need this yet, you know? And so

chapel Rone's a great example where it's like, when, when she was booked, you know, it was like,

no big deal. She's going to be in the 10th and whatever it was. Yeah. Two o'clock. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, and six months down, not just Bonnaroo all, all of last year, she was, she was, you know,

biggest artist on the, on the road. It was crazy. One of the wildest things I've ever seen. Yeah.

We, we call it, we call that green bananas. We want to book green bananas that are going to

ripen once that, once they get to the, once they get to the festival. So I love it.

It green nice. Nice, nice. Along those lines again, how do you make sure that the, the

different festivals are different? I'm going to guess that has to be something that you're

a big, big part of. You have to figure out how they're similar. You got to make sure people get

in and out. They're safe, right? Those are all similar. But how, how do you make sure they remain

unique and specific to their area?

I mean, you're right. The, the, the backbone and the, you know, the foundation,

that can be the same. But when it comes to a, you know, a brand,

especially when you're talking about Lala and ACL and Bon Roos, those are really three unique

festivals. Sorry, go ahead. Those are big, but those are, you know, but I think that's where,

if you go to Lala, it feels like Chicago's festival. It's a, you know, it feels like what it is. ACL is,

is Austin, you know, like an ACL, if we swap those and put Lala Palooza in Austin, Texas,

it's not going to, it's not going to be the right vibe. It's not going to, not going to work. And so

again, you know, Railbird and Lexington, Kentucky, you know, like, I think there's,

there's tons of these that are, you know, what, what is, what is the, you know, what's the city

and what's the, what's the culture in that city and what's, you know, what's the vibe in that city?

And then, you know, that, that bleeds directly into, into the fans and, and what's going to

resonate with them. And so I think that's, that's really the core of trying to, you know,

make sure that again, it's not just stages in the field that we're going to throw some, you know,

cacophony of bands across. It's like, no, we want to curate this and make it relevant to,

you know, the folks that, that live there. So

back to more infrastructure of the farm in Bonnaroo's specifically the flushable bathrooms.

I mean, I don't know what people thought about. I don't want Reddit said about it.

That when it was first coming up, I can't imagine anybody would not enjoy this, this idea, but it's

a hell of a game changer. Is it not from, from, from my vantage point, who admittedly doesn't need

this as much as the other 75,000 do. Give it a couple of years. Yeah, we'll see.

I meant more of accommodations. But any who, that's been a game changer. Will you speak to that,

that addition and, and how that's gone? I think it seems like I remember you telling a story that

might've said some of this went south on you. So, so you don't mind telling that again?

One of the, one of the departments that the reports up to me is called the USFO

and we, we own and operate, oh geez, I think it's about 30 semis of that semi truck loads worth of

that, that vacuum toilet product. And so I know way too much about that, but,

an expert on portals, but fundamentally, when you look at, again, flashback to, to 2015,

that any festival and you've got a, you know, a construction portage on there, chemical toilet,

like it's, it's a bucket in the box is really what it is, you know? And if you, it's an outhouse,

fundamentally, if you ask, ask patrons specifically, the female patrons, what is the worst part about

going to a festival or an outdoor event that that is always it. Top, top, top of the list. And so,

and so how can we, you know, this, this fundamentally comes down to like, what are we

going to do to differentiate our brands? You know, what are we going to do to differentiate

these festivals and improve the experience? And so we, we made the investment in that product.

And there's a whole, again, we'd go down a rabbit hole on it. I mean, there's a whole litany,

it's better for the environment. It's, you know, it uses less, uses less water, you know,

better experience. It's cleaned throughout the day, not just one time, you know, with a power

washer. So, you know, we're, we're, we're real proud of, of, of that experience that we can,

we can, we can give to the fans. See, again, this is the stuff that we love. We love the sausage.

Not flashy, not flashy. No, but it makes a huge difference, man. If you've got a clean toilet

versus a, you don't have one, that's a bad day. It's a change. There was one day, just a quick

anecdote where, I don't know if it was probably 2019 and it was before 2020 anyway. And I stayed

right outside the arch with, with some friends, like a satellite camp, and then wake up in the

morning and like, Oh my God, I walk right through there. And I hadn't used them yet. There's, and,

and it wasn't that busy. It is a day life experience mindset, soul changing experience.

Your whole day is better. It's, it's, it's quite amazing. I don't know what it's like at peak times

during the week or during the weekend. It might be a little difficult, but you know, it's a big

festival. So I could think back to 2010, 2011. I saw some something I hope I never see ever, ever,

ever, ever, ever again. So yeah, please leave it at that. We'll just go from there because I could

say that too. And I'm going to leave it at that as well. Yeah. All right. So, um, what is the state

of the industry? How does it feel? I mean, there's all kinds of stories. Music festivals are this,

music festivals are that they're coming and they're going, they're up, they're down, they're

pausing. They're pausing where the boutique ones are pausing. Um, from your point of view,

and you would be the guy, you would be the guy to ask how, what's the state of the industry right now?

Um, that's, uh, there's a lot to that. You know, there's, uh, I think that the state of the industry

is strong, you know, I think there's, um, you know, regarding, you know, and specific to festivals,

um, you know, festivals, you know, coming out of COVID have gotten a lot more expensive to produce.

And that's both just physical expenses on site, the talent expenses continue to go up. Um, and so

you know, that's one where, you know, fundamentally, you know, it is a business and we need to,

you know, we can't lose money, you know? Um, and so how do we, um, how do we put these,

these together to be able to try to, you know, make sure that we're, we're staying, you know,

financially viable. Um, you know, and I think, um, that's, that's one of the bigger challenges

that we've had. It's also massively competitive, you know, competitive marketplace. There's,

there's a ton of players out there. There's a ton of events. Um, and on top of that, we compete

with concerts, stadiums, arenas. Um, and so, you know, you need to look at how, uh, when, when folks

are, you know, you call it the experience economy, um, you know, how people are, are, are moving

through that is, is, is, is, is dynamic. So that's where, you know, like this, you know, 2025 is

probably going to be one of the biggest years for stadium tours ever. Um, and so when you look at

that through that lens and, um, you know, not specific to Bonnaroo, but like Lollapalooza needs

eight headliners. And so when you look at Soldier Field in Chicago, that's going to program more

shows than they've ever programmed. And we're literally a couple hundred yards to the north,

you know? And so what does that look like for the dynamic? So it's, you know, but at the same token,

you know, again, getting into the, the, the, the sausage, as you called it here, it's like,

you know, uh, uh, a stadium ticket is, is expensive, you know, concert tickets, all of that,

you know, that's one that everybody's, you know, it's very expensive and the festival ticket is a

real good value proposition. You know, like, sure, you can go to the stadium and see your,

your one band, that's your favorite, but you can go to Bonnaroo and see hundreds of bands,

you know, for probably the same ticket price. Um, many times, absolutely. Yes.

You know, so I think that, you know, I think it's strong, but it's always, it's always, you know,

it's a, it's a cyclical business very much, you know, it's like, and I, if you guys look,

look at the past 20 years, you'll see there's a bunch of new festivals and then, you know,

you know, it kind of comes back down and then there's a bunch of new festivals and it just,

it goes up and down. That's been happening for 20 years too. I mean, that's been happening.

That's healthy. You know, that's, I think that's a healthy competitive, you know, business, you

know. So, but I think it's strong. Um, you know, competition makes us work harder, um, than we ever

had to try to, try to innovate and try to try to make, make things better. Um, you know, with,

with expenses going up the way they have been, we're, we're proud to, you know, for the most

part, we've been able to keep our prices pretty flat, um, as far as tickets go. So.

What's the appeal? Why, why, why would arenas all of a sudden, uh, you said they're going to

be picking up arena shows. I actually did kind of think that too. I'm going to a couple of them,

Pearl Jam. I would just went to Billy strings. I'm doing a couple of arena shows.

Cause they've been, we haven't seen them in a while. I mean, are they doing extended light

show? Just cause it's new. You know, if you, you know, you know, when you talk to Benson or any of

the talent buyers, it's really just who's, who's working and who's available. Um, and we're still,

I think this is my opinion. Um, I'd have to have to talk to, you know, Benson and the team just to

see if it's, if that's true, but you know, COVID stopped everything coming out of COVID, everybody

wanted to work. And so what happens 18 months after everybody works? Well, then everybody's

going to be off. And so, so you have a, you know, you have a shortage of options for talent and

that's where you'll see a lot of this narrative around, oh, well, all the festival lineups are

the same. And it's like, well, there's, there's a limited number of acts that are working. Um,

you know, so, and, and, you know, and it's not as, it's not as simple as, you know, hey, we just,

you know, you may not be on tour or you may not be out. We want you to come to the festival. It's

like, it's just, it's not. And we've talked about this here recently that, I mean, a lot of these

artists are hitting these arena. If you can fill an arena, that's where your money is. Like if Pearl

Jam doesn't need to play, not that I think it would be a good booking anymore in this day and

age, my favorite band ever in case anybody didn't know, but they don't need to play Bonnaroo. It

doesn't, that doesn't hit all these arenas and make all this money. And that, and there's a,

there's all, there's countless, uh, there's Lady Gaga's and whoever else, you know, so I, I could

see that, uh, that challenge for sure. I'd like to go back real quick, infrastructureally to the, to

the farm itself, the lay in concrete more and more down. Um, is that going to continue? And,

and, and has that been, I, I, I lose track of where it's happening in 2020, my birthday is in

April. And so everything shut down. So what do I do for my birthday? I drive to Manchester,

jump the fence and I hang out on the farm. It was a beautiful day and, and just chilled. It's one of

my favorite things to do. And it was the first time I noticed production road, which is maybe

the busiest road in all of the state of Tennessee, outside of I-24 for a four day stretch, which is

just the, the y'all's road where you're back and forth all day, artists, everything you can think

of golf carts galore. And there was a concrete laid down and it's the first time I'd seen maybe

a slab of concrete on the entire, I mean, that stretch. And I was like, I think I text you Barry

and I think, I don't know what I think about this. What do you mean? We don't know what we think

about it. That's a great idea. Um, have you, is that getting all into center with, with the pathways

that we're all used to? Are we, are we getting all that, uh, I think we did, or most of it,

I think we did. I think we did fourth last year. I think fifth might be done too, uh, through,

you know, through the, through the center. So I think I'd have to look, I'm pretty sure center

the main north south roads. Yeah, I think it does. Um, you know, but we, we just, you know,

we just kind of try to throw a few nickels in the bucket and do a little bit more each year.

Cause my thought is of course this is a good idea, but as a runoff issues, do you have any other kind

of, uh, uh, things that, that, that nobody's thinking about unintended consequences for

throwing more concrete down? It's all pretty, it's all pretty flat in those areas. So probably,

you know, maybe not. The site is very flat and that's one of our problems. I think, I think the

total elevation change from the arch to the, you know, to, uh, where the admin compound is, I think

is two feet, maybe eight, maybe 18. It puddles up easily. You know, so it's, it's when we get a heavy

rain, it's like, where's it going to go? And it's, it's not going anywhere in a hurry because we

don't have much, much change of elevation there. So, um, this is that sausage. I don't know of any

sausage making that we love. I love this stuff.

Um, you know, yeah, this is the nerd stuff that just sticks in my brain for some reason. I can't

remember. That's what we love. Can't remember, can't remember people's names, but I can remember

that, that kind of stuff. So, um, but, uh, you know, as far as, you know, I'm not aware of any

negative impacts of, of having some more asphalt out there. And again, it's, it's really to make

our, you know, how do we, how do we make the operation more robust and how can we service,

service things better, you know? And, and just again, it's, if it's, it seems boring, but

if we can't get the, the trash trucks and the, the, the Porto trucks and all that stuff,

where they need to go, then instantly the Patriot experience is, is going downhill in a bad way.

Yeah. And if you can keep a ton of dust from going up everybody's nose, that'd be nice too.

Do you have, this is such a silly question. Do you have a favorite, do you prefer a camping

festival like a Bonnaroo or a city festival? Um, or do you even think along those lines?

I don't, I don't know that I really think along those lines. I mean, I got my start again,

from Walker roost, I got my start at camping festivals, you know? So that's, that's, that's

kind of bringing me back to my roots of where I started. Um, you know, I'm, I'm biased because

I've, I've, you know, out of the 21 years Lollapaloo's has been in Chicago, I've been

involved in 17 of them. Um, that was one, somebody asked me that question. I literally had to count

it up on my hand. I was like, Holy cow, I've been around way too long here. So yeah, I'm a little

biased towards Chicago. Again, I think ACL is great. You know, I think the, the, the, you know, the,

the, the, the Lolla international expansion has been one that just been fascinating and taking that

brand to new markets and seeing what those, you know, what our partners in those markets make the,

you know, again, make Lollapaloo's relevant to their, their country, you know? And so we just,

literally this, uh, what is today? Today's Sunday. Today's the last day of, uh, Lollapaloo's India

in Mumbai. Um, and so just, you know, there's so many things like, and it's what India has done

with the creative side of things. I mean, it's just, it's just really, really great. And, and,

and again, it helps us again, do better on all of our events, just seeing how, how, you know,

the creative side can get invigorated from, from other, other countries. So I have, uh,

too, but I have plenty of just random notes to self here on things that probably won't even get to

the last one. I want to make sure we get to here as, as we get closer to the end of this,

can you take us back to 21 going into the fall and the, and the, and the canceled, uh, hurricane?

Can you, can you just give a little bit of a timeline and your thoughts on,

and how that, how you guys were watching that in real time? I can tell you how the fans were doing

it. You know, cause I'm sure you watched online to see how, how was that? And from heartbreak to

frustration to anything you want to throw in there, I'm fascinated to know how that came together in

y'all's heads as you watched it happen. Uh, I mean, slow torture is what it was, you know? I mean,

it was just, you know, the, uh, and the, it's just, you know, life is life gives you irony every,

every turn, you know? And I think the, uh, when we shifted the event to the fall, um, in one of our

public safety calls, somebody just, I mean, just joking, they're like, well, you know, September's

hurricane season and we all laughed. We all laughed. And then like seeing it, you know,

seeing what, I don't know what the name of the hurricane was, but seeing that hurricane spool

up and then it's like the track start. And I'm just like, no, no, we can't, you know, and this is,

you know, this is coming off of COVID year where like, 2019 lineup, I think is arguably

potentially one of the best ever. And it's like, ah, just rip your heart out that you can't

play the festival that year. And we're like, okay, well, now we've got a line of sight on being able

to come back in 22 and we're just going to get the event in the fall so we can get it in and get

people back out there. And then, um, just, just, you know, just ripped our heart out on that thing.

Um, you know, and it's, we, we, we've, we fought kicking and screaming to make it happen,

but it's just like at a certain point, just the totality of the circumstances, just, you know,

we can't, we can't, we can't produce a safe event. Like that's really the, you know, we,

the number of cars we'd have to park out there and this, you know, the, you know, the,

they're standing water on the high ground. I mean, it's, it was, it was nuts. So, um, that was,

that was really hard. That's probably one of the more difficult points in my career of just,

I mean, we've been working so hard on it. We're so excited to be back out there,

especially after COVID and then just, a lot of tears, a lot of tears.

There's so many variables that make that fascinating to me. And that's why I wanted to,

to, to, to, to bring it up. Uh, just the idea, forget everything, forget the artist, forget

everything you do on a daily basis, just the idea that you set the whole place up and it's

beautiful and it's ready and it's lit, like lit lit, like turned on lights. It's ready to go.

Well, as soon as it dries up next week, we're going to tear all this shit down.

I mean, my God, how defeating. Holy geez.

I mean, you want, you want to talk about defeating is, you know, there's, there's no

nicer weather than the backside of the hurricane. Yeah. Every time it was gorgeous.

Every time in the South. Perfect. Just perfect. And it's just like,

and it's like, okay, well, I mean, you know, the, the events that you guys saw the pictures,

the site was just, it was a mess. There was no, yeah.

Yeah. All right. So silver lining guy, uh, here, I, you know, that's me. So many cool

events happened that weekend with all the mini ruse, right? That had to be sort of, uh, heartening

for you guys to see. I know you saw it. I mean, all the different bands that, uh, rallied, uh,

Chattanooga and Manchester, Huntsville. I mean, there were so many, many ruse,

right? People just dealt. Right.

Yeah. I mean, that's, that's, that's all you can do. Right. I mean, it's,

um, you know, you can, you can give up or you can, you can do something about it. Right.

Yeah. And I think that's, you know, that, that's the,

again, the, the, probably the hardest, the hardest part of the, in my opinion, the,

the hurricane year was just COVID happened. And then we, we delayed, you know, we, we moved the

event to September in, uh, in 2020, cause we're like, we don't know when this is going to be over.

So let's just, we'll push it off. Kicking it down the road. And then, okay, well then that

cancels and it's like, we're going to do it next spring. And then it's like, nope, we're not going

to do it next spring. And it's just, you know, it was just a, you know, the circumstances were,

were a real bummer, but like the, the, the fans just got run through the wringer on that, you know,

and then to have, have the triumphant comeback taken away by a storm of all things. It's just like,

it's a wild story. It really is. We're all so used to it. It's, we're all real used to it. But

if you told me that now for the first time, I'd be like, Jesus, how did you ever survive?

How did it ever survive? This thing's gray, you know, because, because of that, you know, I mean,

it's, it's, you know, but we're excited this year. This year's going to be amazing. Um, it's going to

be great. Yeah. Anything for this year, you want to throw out there that you're most excited about

for this year. Oh man. You know, infinity stage. I'm super stoked. You know, all I've gotten is just,

you know, the words from Brad as far as how cool it is and every person on the farm wants to go

there. It's going to be a problem. Well, we're, yeah, we're working through that too. Um, but,

uh, you know, we're, we're really excited about that. Um, you know, we're, um, we're, we're,

we're doing some things that are going to kick the other stage up another notch, um, and, and,

and do some things there. Um, got the other already looks like it's as good as it can get. Now I don't

know what an EDM stage is supposed to look like. So I'll yield to you on that one. Trippy. Um,

that's all I knew for sure. You know, so I think, you know, let me, uh, haven't having Luke Combs on

the farm. Like I'm, I'm stoked to see, see Luke out there. I think that's going to be great. Fun

Thursday. Let me ask. I got one more. Um, and it's something that I was thinking about this morning.

I have to remind myself and I don't, Brian and I, we haven't really talked about it, but I think

from hearing from Brad and Corey, about half of your ticket buyers are new every year, first timers.

So you've got the other half who are like me and Brian, Brian's been there every year since the

beginning. I've been to almost all of them. We're fully committed. Um, but then you've got brand new,

you got 18, 19, 20 year old kids who were just coming out of high school. Uh, right. This is

their first time that has to, that has to be an interesting conversation. And I know Brad has talked

about it is as far as like, uh, you know, you guys always tried to be in front of the zeitgeist and

you mentioned it earlier. Um, but that has to be an interesting conversation.

Yeah. The balance of keeping people who are OGs and then the new people who don't know any better.

It's gotta be an interesting kind of thing to kick around. Well, it's, you know, it's really kind of

a circle of life conversation. Like we, you know, we, we all grow older. Um, and, and, and that

changes. And so we, as, as folks are getting off the train at the end of the line, we got to make

sure we've got as many, as many people or more getting on the train, you know, to go on that ride

with us. And that's one where, um, you know, we, we, we, we have identified that for, for Bonnaroo

as one of the challenges of just, you know, it, it's a commitment, you know, like it's a real

commitment. And I know there's, I know there's a lot of passion around the single day ticket

discussion. Um, you know, but that's one where if I've got a, you know, if I've got somebody that's

18 and they're like, man, that Bonnaroo lineup looks amazing, but I've never camped a day in my

life. Like I just, I don't think I'm comfortable doing that. Well, if we can get them out there

for a day and they can feel and experience Bonnaroo for a day and go, man, I'm coming back next year.

I don't want to figure it out. You know, there's, there's, there's no better, there's no better way

to introduce people to it than, than that way. Um, so, you know, and I think also just, you know,

the, the, you know, when we decoupled the tickets and put, you know, like really kind of choose your

own adventure here, you know, how do you want to experience, you know, Bonnaroo and giving people,

you know, giving the fans the options to do this, however they want to do it. Um, and whether that's

you've never camped, great. We'll, we'll build you a tent. You can just walk in and throw your stuff

in it, or, you know, you want to, you want to hike out there with it on your back. You can do that too.

You know, so I think just making sure that we're, you know, responsive to that and trying to make

the event as accessible as possible, um, for folks to come out and really enjoy it. Cause it's,

you know, it's great. Which you've done. And I've been skeptical a lot of those moves by the way.

And it, most of them appear to have worked pretty well. When we left last year, uh, Brian,

Brian and Russ and I all said, this was, this was a, uh, we didn't use the word, but I got a text from

Brad Parker almost immediately after saying this was a Renaissance year. Um, did it feel that way

to you? And do you still feel that way? Um, yeah, I think there, we were energized anyway, for a

hundred, a hundred percent, 100%. You know, I mean, you know, when you, you know, we, you know,

again, we live in the weeds and so it's like, it's one of those, like when you can finally get the

option, the opportunity to see the forest from the trees and go, man, that, you know,

fundamentally how, you know, the, how we, how we want to produce festivals is it's the, it's

the totality of the experience from the very first time you interact with the brand, whether that's

on Instagram or on the website, to when you get home at night after the, after the event,

we've got to nail every single component of that. And you know, if you, if you miss one thing in

there, you know, like somebody has a bad bathroom experience or somebody's, you know, doesn't, you

know, doesn't have a good experience waiting in line to get into anything, you know, and, you know,

and it's like, we've got to nail that all the way through. And I feel like last year, we, we, we

really hit a, hit a good stride on, on all of that and trying to get the totality of, of what that

experience looks like. And, and, and again, coming out of that, you just feel the energy, you feel

that from everybody. The staff feel it, the, the, the fans of course are jazzed about it. So.

All right. Well, Tim Smith, director of festivals and strategic initiatives, we have to know

where does Tuba come from?

It's not, it's not as great a story as you think. They never are the nickname stories never are.

No, when I, when I first, when I, the production company I was working for,

straight out of college, when I started there, they were, so I long, the, the short story long,

so I played at the university of Kansas. I played Tuba in the band. And so I played the

marching band. I played in the basketball band. Kansas has a good basketball.

Absolutely. We run the world. So, so, so, you know, and, and so when I started at this, at this

production company there, you know, I'm the new guy. It's like, well, let's haze the new guy.

And they're like, oh, well you're, and I was, I was actually still in school at the time and

they're like, oh, well, what are you playing the band? And I'm like, yeah, I play in the band.

I'm like, what do you play? Tuba. And they're like, oh, we're going to call you Tuba.

Yeah. See, that's what I was thinking. It could have been, it could have been xylophone.

I'm not ashamed of it. You could have been. I'm not ashamed of it.

You know, and I'm like, look, y'all can, you know, Kansas is going to final fours, you know,

I'm like, yeah, you can watch for me on TV. I'm the court side seats playing my horn, you know? So,

but you know, the thing is, as, as I moved through the industry, legal name is Tim Smith,

which is entirely forgettable. And so there's, there's more people in this industry that,

that don't know my legal name, but they know, they know too.

There's a lot.

You're the only tuba I've ever met. You are the only tuba that I've ever met.

So, and okay. Final one for me completely. That's total throw away. Mr. Rock Chalk,

Jayhawk as I get ready for the March, well, I shouldn't call it that the NCAA tournament.

What's going on with your Jayhawks are not ranked this late in the season. What's the deal?

Oh man. Well, we might be, we might be ranked.

Uh, you know, I think they'll surprise some folks this year for sure, but, um, you know,

this really, uh, you know, this is, this is, uh, the evolution of NIL coming into focus,

you know, and what the transfer portal and how you can straight up pay players now, you know,

and I think it's just, it's a different, it's a different game of what it means to develop players

and just, I think it's, uh, you know, I thought, I think when we started the year, obviously

preseason ranked number one, like that was the, the, you know, the numbers on the page.

I was shocked when I saw they weren't ranked and they might be because they just won one the other

night, but I just, I need to know, man, where do I lay the money, man? How do I, how do I fill out

the bracket? That's the wrong question. Cause I'm, I'm totally biased. I'll have them win in the

championship and I'll lose the bracket because I'll usually pick KU at least, you know, three or

four games with your heart. Yeah.

There you go. Uh, so what were the takeaways, uh, uh, Brian, you know, I think the, you know,

the industry is in a good place. It's interesting to hear him talk about, you know, the differences

in festivals. Um, I loved hearing his, and I wanted to start there on purpose how he got into

it because I, you know, we've had enough of people, um, Brad, Corey, um, all the way back to Ashley

Caps. People get into this business because of passion. They love it. Nobody goes to school for

this. I don't know where he would, I don't know. You know, nobody comes out of high school and

said, I'm going to go to college and learn to run festivals. They just, the closest thing you can

do is get a communications degree and that's probably not going to work. You spent a lot of

money on that and you didn't need to not if you can, you should, but if you don't need to, to show

up, volunteer, sell t-shirts, do whatever, keep showing up, keep showing up, keep showing up,

be on time, park cars, park cars again, park cars again, and eventually you won't park cars anymore.

Yeah. Beyond time is the key thing. I know several people. I don't think he's there anymore. Um,

my guy Roger Shutter's here in town. I'll go ahead and give him his name. Not that anybody knows or

matters. Hadn't seen him in a while, but we went to high school together and then we didn't talk

for a long time for just whatever reason. And then I see him at the festival. He's parking cars.

Couple of years later, he's still parking cars a little bit later. He's in VIP artist relations

hospitality where you don't really have to work at that point. And he's, this is now his thing.

This is, he eventually got on a payroll and then several times because he couldn't drive, he would

jump in the car with me and I'd drop him off where he needed to be. This was one of the his favorite

things he's ever done and he didn't get rich doing it. He just continued to show up and that's,

that's how it works in so many industries really. But in this one, but a takeaway real quick,

I want to get to before I, uh, before I forget was when we were talking about the,

so many arena shows this year, how many there are and how expensive they are. I was shocked to hear

that there was more this year. I just hadn't paid attention to that because they are so expensive.

My God, I bought Pearl Jam tickets for Christmas for people. My God, that'll never happen again.

The pricing on that, I ain't doing that again. Uh, but more and more going backwards and I've,

I've talked on, on many podcasts before where I'm like, how many times can we keep going up on

prices? And I talk about that on everything, Bonnaroo included. And the more I pay attention,

the more I look at what everybody else is doing. Bonnaroo is the best value in the world.

No question.

It's the best price point value you're ever going to find. It's barely an opinion. It's pretty much

fact when you stack it up against everything else, what they offer, what Bonnaroo offers,

what Lala, what ACL, what Glastonbury, what everybody offers, Bonnaroo is the best dollar

for dollar value you're going to find. And that is, I mean, what a, that's a testament to them

to understanding that, to understanding that this is a difficult weekend. It is very, very hard.

There are many times when people get done with this weekend and they say never again, never again.

And then like four months roll by, like, it wasn't that expensive. And I'm like, oh, it's kind of fun.

Six months roll by, I kind of want to go back again. Right. I mean, that's a whole strategic

way of doing it. So yeah, dollar for dollar doesn't get better than Bonnaroo.

No, and you're right. And if you're going to do it multiple times, especially, you know,

buy your ticket on layaway, start buying your stuff, you know, you don't only buy on the farm

the week, year before you're going to get the cheapest price. Yeah. And once you buy your cot,

your tent, your whatever, you're easy, you know, start buying your groceries, waters or whatever.

You don't, so don't wait till it's, you know, two, three, $400 all at once. Yeah. And all those

essentials, pop-ups and all those things. Now that you got them, that price is baked in now.

You don't have to do that again. That's correct. So that's a good point. When you go to Lollapalooza,

you still got to get a Hilton for $500 a night. That's a great point. Yeah. Yeah. I've everything

I've got now is I'm not spending much at all. That's a good point. Yeah. All right. Man,

that was a lot of fun. It was. We've been trying to get that one nailed down since last June

and appreciate him doing it. The fact that he even knows what this stupid show is, is amazing to me.

Long time listener, first time caller. He's an old school on everything. I love it. I guess real

quick on our way out here, we'll, we, I know we're saying it. We, we got jobs in real life and

sometimes it gets in the way as far as this ticket giveaway we're going to do that. That's happening

very, very soon, but we'll, we'll roll it with it for another week. Do you, do you have something

more to throw out there? That's a good question. Yeah. We, we, people get, sorry to put you on the

spot. No, that's all right. I thought I had one. If you wanted to do a job, let's just, let's stay

with the tuba. If you wanted to work for a festival, what would be the job you would want? Yeah. What's

your dream job in the festival world? Let's just put it that way. It could be outlandish if you

want. Be out. You can, I want to be Ashley Caps or I want to clean the toilets. Or I want to book

the bands. And actually if, if you were booking the bands, who would you book? Let's, let's just

put a part B on that one. Cause Brian and I know we've both been on those committees where we've

been involved in festivals and everybody comes in thinking I've got the ticket man, but Jimmy

Buffett and you'll be a ginormous hit and Buffett ain't doing it. Of course he's dead now, but

everybody thinks they know. Yeah. You don't think everybody in this room thought about that already?

Exactly. That's me. I know. I told you about going up to Brian Benson at moon river and saying,

have you thought about booking Dolly? I was, I was half kidding, but he was like, seriously, dude,

really never thought about Dolly. Good one. I'm going to write that down.

I've got an example of that too. It's not coming to head. Right.

Everybody thinks they know. All right, man. Great week. Thank you. Thanks to, but thanks Brian

Russ miss you. Look forward to seeing you. Bye.