Write this down, Brad, Barry and Lord Taco are determined to get to the bottom of the recent spate of festival lineup releases and while we don't want to give it away, they are pretty excited about one in particular and vow they can be in Amarillo by morning.
Write this down.
Lollapalooza, ACL Fest, Halloween, Bottle Rock, Riot Fest.
I cross my heart.
We will dive into all of the lineups released over the last few weeks.
So check yes or no.
If these lineups are for you, for us, we're giving it all we got because we can make Amarillo
This is the What Podcast, which bands this year that matter, Barry Courter or Brad Steiner,
It starts right now.
Welcome to the What Podcast, which bands this year that matter.
If you're new to the show, welcome.
If you're somebody we've known for years, welcome back.
That's Barry Courter or Lord Taco.
Brad Steiner, which bands this year that matter.
That is a loaded statement because it feels like we're getting the same bands over and
over and over.
The lineup season has dropped a pant load of lineups into our lap the last couple of
days and some good, some bad.
We're going to do a quick show today and then next week, as we promised, would be this week.
Next week is going to be part one of two parts, how to make a hit.
I'm excited about next week, Barry, because we're talking to somebody we've never talked
to before in an industry, part of the industry we've never talked to before.
Artists and repertoire, an A&R guy from Hollywood.
His name is Mike Daly.
I'm very excited about that chat because we're going to learn a lot about the industry that
we've never known before.
It's what we do, try to go inside.
This one's in, that's going to be inside baseball for sure.
Barry, I'm in.
I was stunned last week when you asked what the R is and I didn't know.
I mean, I've done this 30 something years.
I couldn't even guess.
It's a little bit different than when I asked you what TNA meant.
That I knew.
I know that one.
WTF, you know, why the face?
We all know it's a why the face.
Yes, that's why the fork.
Exactly, dad, you nailed it.
So let's get into some of this stuff.
There's so much to go through because, you know, as you were listening to the Devin Cofillion
interview, we put that out and as that was happening, Lollapalooza dropped their lineup.
So it sort of sounded a little strange.
All of a sudden, Lollapaloo, we're talking, where's the Lollapalooza lineup?
And then all of a sudden, it's UD of podcasting, right?
So the Lollapalooza lineup, let's start there and work through it.
What did you think?
Your first thoughts, initial impressions?
Foo Fighters, which is on Bonnaroo and Miley, which is not on Bonnaroo.
That's my first.
Why I want Miley.
I know you do.
I made this very clear.
Well, I will say I don't anticipate an answer, but I have asked what gives what happened
with Miley being on every festival lineup, except for Bonnaroo when she was only on Bonnaroo
a year ago.
Why does she hate me?
I need that answered.
I mean, Taco, do you find this to be strange how much Barry Courter loves Miley Cyrus?
All of a sudden too.
It's a new thing.
And by the way, did you know that Miley Cyrus is not even her birth name?
What was her name?
That's a good career decision.
Sort of sounds like a dancer, isn't it?
Unless she was going to get into the.
Table four, table four, destiny hope table for a day.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Did you break up with someone?
Is that why you're so in love with Miley now?
Or do you have your heart broken?
I don't really know.
I just thought it was going to be such a different show.
I mean, Taco, he does look like a Hemsworth, doesn't he?
He's very close to being.
But I had a chance.
He's got a chance.
My initial impression about the, the Lollapalooza lineup, it's the massive girth that I mean,
we all know that Lollapalooza has, you know, more stages than anybody always puts out the
most product than anybody.
But man, in a year like this, uh, I was told that the carryover from the lineup they originally
had is damn near a hundred percent.
So it's not like they needed to do too much, but man, oh man, it is a, if you ever wonder
if there was going to be a cap, Oh God, no, there's 150 bands on this lineup.
One person in particular, not on this lineup.
And that was the biggest piece of news is Kendrick Lamar.
I was told explicitly and not by one, not by two, not by three, every single person
I've talked to new Kendrick Lamar is on the lineup and something happened on Monday.
I have yet to get a clear answer, but Kendrick Lamar was on this lineup and then magically
not two days later.
I don't know, but, um, I'm going to, I'm going to keep asking because if you, if you,
if you look at the lineup a little differently, instead of Foo Fighters, Post Malone, Tyler,
the creator, Miley Cyrus, think about it with Kendrick Lamar in front of Foo Fighters.
And I think that you probably have a little bit different of a reaction.
Now I don't know if they needed them.
They sold the damn thing out in two hours.
Using Kendrick freaked them out and they were scared shitless.
Um, and I, again, this didn't come from one people, one person, one, one person.
It was many people that told me there was serious angst that they were for the first
time in years and only the second time, maybe in the last decade that they were not going
to sell out in the first hour.
It's an interesting question.
I mean, I know what you're saying, but I, I, I'm sitting here thinking, this is why
you don't release stuff till it's signed in ink.
You know, I mean, if you didn't know what you know, would it matter?
You know what I mean?
Does it help a festival?
Does it help?
I'm, I'm talking in circles here because the inside baseball stuff is what we do.
But I mean, how many acts didn't, you know, we're almost signed and that kind of thing.
So I, I'm not disputing what you're saying and I'm not trying to be contrary.
It's just kind of, um,
No, but you asked an interesting question.
Does it even matter?
It doesn't matter.
You know, maybe not.
I mean, it matters to nerds like me, but, uh, right, right.
Because my bet is, my bet is he was signed.
He lost a lot of money by pulling out.
That's just my guess.
If I have no information about that, but you don't get this far along, you don't get this,
you don't get that this far along in the process without being somewhat signed.
You know, you don't have to Kendrick Lamar going to be one or two on the lineup and not
have something signed.
So somebody lost money along the way.
Now I will say if we ever got to talk to a Booker again, like we did with the AC entertainment
people, uh, I'd like to know how much that's going to cost somebody and how often that
You know, they told us years ago that they had insert major female artists here and it
just sort of fell through like how far along the process were they, how close was it to
an ounce a day?
And you know, how did that end up costing anybody any money?
I mean, that's a great point.
And also it could, it could be something sinister.
It could be somebody's feelings got hurt, or it could be that they got, he got a better
You know, I mean, there's all kinds of perhaps, but you guys, but my bet, but I mean, I don't
know who his management is, but I have to bet that his management has probably five
more artists on this lineup.
I bet his booking agent has five more artists on this lineup.
So, you know, it's not like his people are, are, you know, also insulated and not talking
about other stuff.
So who knows?
And you're right.
It may not, it may not be interesting to anybody else.
And it may not even matter.
I mean, frankly, it didn't the thing sold out in two hours.
So, you know, it's not like they needed them.
It's not like they needed them.
Now you guys have never been to Lollapalooza.
What do you, as an outsider feel about it?
Think about it.
What is your impression of Lollapalooza?
Basically what you've told me, it's a city, it's a downtown event, right?
It's not a camping event, right?
It's in Grand Park.
You know, you're, what do I think of the lineup or what do I, what is my perception of what
If you, since never, if you've never walked into Lollapalooza, what do you think you'd
be walking into?
You're going to laugh because to me, it sounds like my nightmare.
It's a lot of dealing with downtown traffic to try to get to a show that I really want
Wham, wham, wham.
I know, right?
That's why they have public transportation, Barry.
Well, that's not fun for me.
I want to be there to see the show.
I don't want to worry about the-
Whole country going.
Whole country comes to the big city.
Well, that's it.
I want to sleep in my bus, not a city bus.
But, you know, I hope we're going to be there, right?
Or we, if not this year, eventually.
Well, I mean, I will, I'll definitely be there.
I, I look, it's not that I love Lollapalooza, but-
But you don't even go to the shows, right?
You like the behind, you like the industry network.
He goes to get his haircut.
Yeah, I do get good haircut.
And eat good Indian food.
I look, I, I, first off, I love Chicago.
It's my favorite city in the country and outside of the city I live in.
But they just do such a great job with the after shows.
And, you know, the other thing too is in between the festival and the after shows, I like really
expensive restaurants and really expensive restaurants end up taking a couple hours.
So I lose most every headliner I miss.
But I do spend most of the day with stuff like, you know, cautious clay, which by the
way, if you haven't listened to this cautious clay album, he's got an EP, he's got a new
I'm absolutely obsessed with it.
This cautious clay dude is going to just take over, I feel like in the next year.
But you know, I, I'll spend my day watching shows like that and then I'll probably bail
somewhere around six or seven o'clock to go to dinner.
So let me ask you of this 150 acts, how many will you see?
That's a point.
So kind of gets to my point.
It's not so, but I do this differently.
It's not the festival that I go to to engage with music.
And I'll tell you a couple of just basic problems with Lollapalooza and they're not knocks on
it, believe me, but there are things that, you know, are difficult for, for the, for
me to traverse.
First off, the space is massive.
If you ever go to Lollapalooza, just be expecting you will walk probably 10 miles a day.
And it's almost impossible.
How is what you're saying differently?
When the different, what I said eight minutes ago.
Well, you complained about traffic.
I'm complaining about the size of the transportation, whatever, whatever is all part of the issue.
You were worried about traffic getting into the city.
Then now I got, now you're telling me I got to get a Sherpa to carry me across the park,
but you go ahead into grand park.
So to get from the mains, the two main stages, there are two other ends of the park.
So there's one main stage and one one on the other.
So to get from one to the other is probably on half an hour to 45 minute walk.
That's not fun for me.
It takes forever because along the way you're always eating something.
You're also always stopping for a beer.
You're always stopping to see somebody.
And then you, you see a show along the way.
It just, it takes forever to traverse around the space.
With all that being said, they also have more stages and they've got, you know, bigger acts
and they all seem to be playing all at the same time.
So it's a massive, massive operation.
You know, the other thing about it is other than just being a giant space, I don't necessarily,
I love Chicago so much that if I'm there, I'm only there for a specific amount of time.
I'm always wanting to do other Chicago things.
And you know, Lollapalooza will take up all of my time from the, from the moment go to
the end of, end of the night, if I don't break myself away.
So you know, with all that being said, it is, I wonder if the regular Lollapalooza fan
feels as though it's as right of a passage as Bonnaroo is or as Coachella.
Whereas we look at Bonnaroo and if you haven't spent your weekend on the farm in your early
twenties, you've really missed out on a life experience.
I wonder if the same can be said about Lollapalooza.
Is it the type of festival like with, with Bonnaroo, one of the things we always talk
about is we all make our lists and then, you know, worry about how we're going to get from
A to B to C to D and see it all at once.
And you can't, but is this the kind of thing where you pick a stage and stay there all
Or do you, you try to, you still try to hit it all.
And, and yeah, I think that, and that's where it like, you get into some trouble when you
start trying to do everything at Lollapalooza.
You're going to wear yourself out really quickly.
That's what I'm really getting at.
I'm whining, but
Although, although Bonnaroo, you can do the same thing at Bonnaroo and you could say the
same things, but the difference is Bonnaroo is a very small footprint when you really
think about it.
And it's not necessarily difficult to get from one to the other, other than the human
traffic, the human beings that you have to go through and the massive amount of humanity
that's standing in your way.
Relatively speaking, it's kind of a small footprint compared to Lollapalooza.
Lollapalooza, I don't necessarily have problems getting through giant swaths of people because
the place is so damn big anyway.
You know what I'm saying?
You know, and then the other thing too is I, I do like the way they do have two stages
inside Lollapalooza that I like a lot that are under the trees.
And it does feel like a very intimate space.
I, I'm not kidding.
I saw one of the greatest shows I've ever seen in my life at Lollapalooza.
And that was the first time I ever saw Jungle.
And they were literally in the forest stage.
There's a state, I don't know which one it is, but if you've ever been to Lollapalooza,
you know, you walk in there into Grant park and you can go right or you can go left.
It's the one on the city side, that jungle stage on the city side, not the river side
that I literally saw jungle.
It was the light show around surrounded by trees was just a dream.
It sounds like it sounds like it's a bigger forecastle.
I mean, I mean, I loved how being able to get around forecastle was so easy.
Well take forecast and multiply it by 20.
That gives me an idea.
It's absolutely massive.
And the other, so, and the other problem too about, uh, well, it's not a problem.
Lollapalooza does a really good job about putting competing artists against each other
that maximizes putting half of the, the, the festival in one side and half on the other.
Like for instance, they're not going to do, um, you know, post Malone at the same time
as Tyler, the creator, you know, they know that that audience is probably pretty similar.
Um, they're not going to do, they're going to knock.
I think the way that the rumors have been post Malone is playing at the same time journey's
playing, you know, they wouldn't necessarily.
You have Foo Fighters and journey at the same time.
So, um, with all that being said, the magic for Lollapalooza is that after those after
shows and getting into one of them, the one that you really want to get into, that's the
magic and that's where I feel like so many of the things that live in lore about Lollapalooza
come from the four, the, the four hour Foo Fighters set that everybody talks about that
happened after Lollapalooza.
That's the one that I was at, at the Metro.
And then the final thing about it is where you're, you would get a Foo Fighters show.
This is why I know the Foo Fighters show of Bonnaroo is going to be a million times better
than Lollapalooza and it was not anybody's fault.
Foo Fighters are going to do three hours of Bonnaroo.
That's just who they are.
They just, they don't have anything in them other than three hours.
Lollapalooza makes your set be an hour 15 hour and a half tops.
There's just no room for a four hour, three hour, two and a half hour Foo Fighters show.
I can see that.
The city makes Grant Park shut down.
I get it.
There you go.
Now, any, anybody on there that, that stands out for you on the Lollapalooza lineup?
I've already said, Miley and the journey thing.
You're excited about the journey thing, aren't you?
You know, I can't, can't stop this.
Is that what it is?
I don't know.
One person is the band still together?
Yeah, but they have this different singer member.
I can't be a Filipino dude.
Yeah, who the fans like better than Steve Perry.
He sounds more like Steve Perry than Steve Perry did.
It's the craziest thing.
It just doesn't do anything for me.
I will say like you go, it's very deep.
The Lollapalooza lineup is very deep.
And I say that because there's so many on here that I play on my radio station.
But let's get to it.
Almost Monday's on there.
I mean, there's, I'm looking all the way down to the, I mean, that's the other, just
to, it's just a note.
And I think I mentioned it last on the last show, Drew Holcomb said that apparently the
whole, you know, no compete clause is seems to be out the window, which is why we're seeing
a lot of, I mean, not that Chicago and Bonnaroo are going to compete, but we're going to see
a lot of the same bands on online.
Well, just remember that, you know, C3, there, there are just a few companies that do this,
You've got two companies that do pretty much every festival.
One's Live Nation and one's AEG.
So AEG runs the, the Fireflies and the runs the, the Buccos and it runs the Coachella's.
The Live Nations run the Bonnaroo's, the Lollapalooza's and then the ACLs.
Under Live Nation, you've got companies that sort of assist that bought by Live Nation.
Bonnaroo of course is AC Entertainment where Lollapalooza and ACL break off of the tree
of Live Nation is with a company called C3.
C3, if you recall a couple of years ago, had bought some sort of buying stake into Bonnaroo.
And that was the year that everybody seems to blame the bad year of Bonnaroo 2016 or
the lineup was bothersome to some people and didn't get what?
40,000 tickets sold.
A lot of people, yeah, a lot of people want to blame C3 on that.
Internally, they say, you know, they didn't have much to do with the lineup, but C3 absolutely
controls everything about Lollapalooza and ACL Fest, which brings me to the strangest
point or at least my point, which is the strangest thing for me, the difference in lineups for
Lollapalooza versus ACL, Austin City Limits Festival.
Although you'll see some carry over.
The ACL Fest lineup is so unbelievably good.
And the reason I like it so much is exactly why it feels like the Firefly lineup and the
Lollapalooza lineup missed the mark for me because they're so specific.
You know, Lollapalooza has got a major electronic stage.
Is it Perry stage?
Yeah, it's a Perry stage.
We're going to have the lighting director for that stage on the show later in the season.
But man, ACL feels like it is in its own world.
And I love that about it.
It's different just looking at the headliners.
When I saw it earlier, I went back to the conversation we had with Steven and Brian
from AC about lanes.
I mean, you go from George Strait to Billie Eilish to DaBaby.
That would be your Saturday.
Did you think?
I mean, I know when you were making your list of who you wanted, those are those those three
were those are my three and Tanya Tucker.
I think that ACL Fest has the most inspired headliners I may have ever seen in a festival,
at least, but at least in the last 10 years.
I love the fact that George Strait is headlining this festival.
This is such a.
I know you're not a country fan, but do you know, I mean, never.
Oh, yes, I do.
Or 53 number one.
George Strait is an icon and he is so it's hit after hit after hit and two, I think,
unless he's had more.
Well, the other thing is, it's like this may be the last time you're ever going to see
Well, you know that.
And that's what I was going to say.
Stevie Nicks is on there, too.
And so I think one of the points we've tried to make or two couple of points that we've
tried to make on this show over the years is it's about discovery and it's about seeing
the acts that you maybe wouldn't go see otherwise.
Yeah, I'm not going to buy a ticket.
That's exactly right.
I would never buy a George Strait ticket.
And Stevie Nicks doesn't come to my area.
You know, do you think that George Strait would work on the top line of any festival
anywhere else in the country?
That's a great question.
That's a great question.
Could I see George Strait at Bonnaroo?
You think you could see George Strait at Bonnaroo?
He wouldn't be a top line, but he would be a second line, surely.
I'm going to say yes, only because I missed so badly on.
Oh, I can't even think of his name.
The Commodore's guy.
I missed so badly.
Come on, Barry.
It's not coming to me.
I just thought that was the worst Lionel Richie.
I just thought Lionel Richie was the worst pick ever and people loved it.
So you said the same thing about Kenny Rogers, too.
That's why I'm saying so.
I think I under first of all, I underestimated Lionel Richie, but I also underestimated the
Bonnaroo crowd massively.
They just want to see good music and George Strait.
I mean, he's arguably the best at what he does, so I would think he'd do very well.
I mean, I think that there's just...
I don't necessarily think the country artist or the country fan was the part of the audience
that needed to be tapped.
I don't think that's what it's about.
I think it's about appealing to Brad and Barry.
I know, but Taco, do you know a George Strait song?
I don't think I could tell you one.
Probably if you played one, I'd be like, yeah, I know that, but I don't know that it's George
But would you ever go see George Strait at a festival?
If he's there, if I'm already there, maybe.
There it is.
That's, I think, the point.
Would you buy a ticket to go just see George Strait?
But if he was at a festival, if he was at Bonnaroo, you'd go see him.
I'd go see him.
And like you just said, I bet I would stand there and know every song, even though I couldn't
Yeah, I bet I've heard them all.
I just couldn't name them or tie them to George Strait.
I guess the reason I like it so much is because the bravery that it took to put George Strait
first, that George Strait's never been booked by a major festival before, and that I can
definitely see somebody take George Strait and take that lane all the way through the
It's an inspired choice.
And then they did a really good job supporting it around it.
Because if you did George Strait and then all of a sudden they feel like they needed
to balance the lineup with, you know, by putting Megan Thee Stallion on the headliner list,
I think that it would feel cheap.
And like George would stick out like a sore thumb.
But putting a very iffy headliner on Rufus DeSole, I love Rufus, but he's up there because
I think it's just really, really good poster management.
I hate to get really nerdy about this, but George Strait, Stevie Nicks, Rufus DeSole,
that feels so substantial.
If it was George Strait, Billie Eilish, Miley Cyrus, DaBaby, and Megan Thee Stallion, you
would say, who is the old white guy on this list?
You know, it would look so weird.
But they did a brilliant job knowing that their guy was George Strait.
And I bet you they've been working on that for a decade.
They got a nice job supporting the George Strait.
George, Miley, Tanya, Tanya, Sleep at the Wheel.
Sleep at the Wheel is a great one.
Yeah, I'm trying to think, look at the other people in the lane, so to speak.
I mean, yeah, it's great.
I mean, I think you're right on.
The other thing too about the Austin City Limits lineup.
A lot of times you'll see week one, week twos, right?
Because it's a two weekend festival and there'll be a handful of bands that will only be there
for week one and only be there for week two.
But if you have six, that's a lot.
Oh my God.
It's everyone this year.
And I could probably come up with an idea as to why that is, but I would just be guessing.
I don't know if ACFS has ever had this many bands only doing one specific weekend.
I have no idea.
I'm sure we can ask somebody what the cause of that was and what is the specific reason
if I would just be guessing though the problem that you're going to have maybe for if again,
it's not a problem.
They've already sold out.
What does it matter?
You know, I think back to your point, Barry is like, who cares?
Yeah, but I think that if you took the lineup and just made it a week one lineup and then
a week two lineup, I wonder if you like it as much.
Yeah, I don't know about that.
That's I haven't given that sort of thing much thought.
I mean, when I've seen that it's a week one, week two, and I've seen other festivals, I
wonder how that does work as a fan.
It's never bothered me because there's never been that much that I'm missing the next weekend.
I do choose which weekend I go based on the week ones and week twos.
The year that I went, I chose the week that James Vincent-McMorrow was playing just because
I chose, you know, one year I chose just because it was Brittany Howard's week and Alan Amish
Shakespeare, but I don't, this would be impossible because everyone is choosing one week or the
But the first time I ever really thought about it, I think it was Jazz Fest.
They had Van Morrison one week and somebody else I really, really wanted to see the other.
And I was like, how, you know, I can't afford 12 days in New Orleans.
Well, it's gonna be a tough pick.
So yeah, the Jazz Fest thing is so hard because, you know, you can buy a ticket for both for
every day, but it's going to cost you an arm and a leg, right?
You know, the big, the big knock on Jazz Fest these days is that there's no cap.
They don't stop selling tickets.
So there's, yeah, I've heard that.
And, and, and the bottlenecks getting from point A to point B can be very, very difficult.
And I live in the neighborhood.
It'll probably take me an hour to get there.
So the, you know, they don't sell it.
And the other problem too, is they don't stop selling tickets at 35, $40 a day.
Whereas before you could get in Jazz Fest for 10 bucks, you know, you can walk around
and for your $10 and then you go have lunch.
I mean, that's basically where people just walk in and have lunch because they want a
Speaking of Jazz Fest though, there's no word.
I've, I've heard crickets from the Jazz Fest people and it's mostly because of the trouble
that New Orleans has had with reopening and not really trouble.
They're just really slow with reopening everything.
Finally, the other lineup that we probably need to get to is same weekend.
Well, I know a lot of people like the Halloween thing.
I don't, Halloween is one of these situations where I just don't fit the target demographic.
I'm looking at it.
It's string cheese, skrillex, and it's a jam band thing.
First off, I don't even know where it is.
I still can't figure out where a Sawani is.
I still don't know where Live Oak Florida is.
So it's hard for me to even wrap my head around getting there.
Secondly, I've never found a band on there that would, that would make me want to drive.
It is so lineup dependent for me when it comes to Halloween, but people, if there's a, if
there's a festival that equals Bonnaroo in just the way people's emotions are tied to
it, it's gotta be Halloween.
Are you, are you, are you looking at the lineup taco?
You see Turquoise is on there.
I see, yeah, I see Turquoise doing a time, but cautious clay is on there too.
That's a, that is an interesting lineup.
And I don't know where Sawani, I know it's in the, it's, I don't think it's in the,
it's near water unless it's a lake.
So I don't know.
I, it just, it's just not for me.
I don't, I just don't do jam bands and you know, I don't need a night of string cheese
incident much less three of them.
I mean it's Halloween weekend.
I'm guessing there's lots of costumes and it's probably pretty crazy and fun.
So no, I, that's what I'm saying.
The people that go though, love it.
It's probably why I'm, yeah.
I can see that.
I mean, I've got a, I've got a buddy of mine.
If it wasn't for, you know, Bonnaroo, the only festival he would go to is Halloween
because the scene there is, is as infectious as the farm is in Manchester.
So I can, I just don't know.
I just don't know if I've got it in me.
We're talking about a camping festival, Barry though there, you know, you're there.
So you're gonna do.
So you're gonna do.
And then I'm sold your soul.
And then the final one is actually one that I'm trying to get the guys who started it
on the, on the show with us, a bottle rock just in passing.
When I hear there's going to be a music festival in Napa, my wallet starts throbbing.
I just can't imagine how expensive this would be.
How expensive it would be to spend a weekend in Napa.
I'm betting you're not going to find a $35 Airbnb.
You talk about Napa, the auto parts store.
No, no, no.
They'd be Napa.
I'm betting the Airbnb's in the hostels, but look at that lineup.
That's pretty darn good.
That is really, really strong.
Um, why has Stevie Nicks never played Bonnaroo?
Why did you say earlier, Stevie's just never come into me?
Does she not play the Southeast?
I don't know.
I've never, I don't know.
I seems like she came to the area some years ago, but not much.
I mean, even Atlanta that I know of, maybe Nashville, uh, so guns and roses.
That's a weird one.
Um, well, not really.
I mean, guns and roses played, was it, uh, was it Lala a few years ago?
No, it wasn't Lala.
It was like governor's ball or something.
And it was always a Coachella.
I don't really remember, but they, they pop up every now and then the one that I liked
the most from bottle rock is, and I know why he did it, but James Murphy doing a DJ set,
James Murphy from LCD sound system, doing a DJ set, not a bottle rock, but you know
Do you want to guess why he's doing it there and not say, I don't know any other festival
in the country.
I have no idea.
The man loves wine.
He even owns a winery.
So, um, to your point, yeah.
You better bring the wallet.
I mean, wow.
Back to your Lala Palooza point, you're not going to go to Napa and not take in Napa.
So yeah, that becomes a, but there's another, there's another name on that line.
I want you to try and find that.
Any of us, I know you're excited about Phineas.
There's a certain artists on that lineup that is specifically booked just for those people
in Napa, just for the locals, try and figure out who it is just for that, you know, 55
year old woman who loves drinking wine in the middle of the day.
Do you see it?
I'm looking at me.
That would be the village people.
There they are.
Like if you, if you pick this lineup out of thin air, right.
And you didn't know where it was going to be in the country, you would look at that
and make who in the hell booked the village people.
Oh yeah, there they are.
As soon as you said it, I just pictured, uh, you know, the, the woman with the glass of
wine held over her head doing YMCA.
You know who it is.
You know who it is.
Doing YMCA with probably two glasses of wine.
Cause she didn't want to have to go back to the, you know,
By the way, she's also the one that you're hanging out with the, the Taquaz show.
You know that.
It's her husband who dragged her there.
I just can't imagine that woman going from Taquaz to, to village people and then walking
by big Frida.
I, uh, I do like, it's really good.
And unfortunately it's the same weekend as Bonnaroo.
So we'll never make it, but I really want to, um,
I want to talk to the guys.
So I know I have a friend of a friend that knows the guys that started bottle rock.
And I'll tell you, it does fascinate me to think about somebody who literally just whipped
up a music festival.
I know we've talked to Ashley about it in the past, but you know,
And uh, and uh, Drew Holcomb, you know, that was fun talking to him about starting his
And it just, but these guys were not in the same realm.
Um, they weren't musicians that just had a bunch of buddies come over.
And then start playing.
They had, you know, they were more in the Ashley and the Ashley world.
Um, you know, Ashley though had made so much hay of, you know, booking things in Knoxville.
People just sort of trusted them.
I, I don't know how this bottle rock thing started, but I know it didn't five years ago,
they weren't booking guns and roses.
I think their headliner was Jason Morazz.
So something happened in the last five years that has turned this thing way, way up.
Um, I just don't know what it is.
Maybe it's all that Napa money.
Maybe it's that now had Mumford in the past.
They've had Neil Young, right?
Have they really?
I didn't know that.
Um, one of the, one of the question I had about, um, ACL Fest and I got this from a
friend of mine who wasn't nearly as impressed with the lineup as I was.
So if not George straight, the one that I love the most as a headliner is Erica Badu.
And by the way, side note for the people that scream about, you know, females not being
headliners at festivals.
Well, ACL has three of them for them.
They have four female headliners.
That's unheard of absolutely unheard of, but the one that I'm excited about is Erica Badu.
This is the text message that I got from a friend of mine.
Is Erica Badu really a headliner?
Barry, answer that question.
Um, probably not.
I would say, yeah, I would say so.
You think Barry, Barry, you think, okay, who's the headliner when I say Erica Badu or Megan
Because I think so too.
I think Erica Badu is, is, um, a queen.
I mean, I, I know she's not Beyonce, but it goes Beyonce, Lauryn Hill, Erica Badu.
That's an interesting, I mean, I get what you're saying.
It's an interesting, um, but you think about those lineups a lot more than I do.
Um, and, and I say that because, um, I break it down that it's so subjective.
I mean, there's numbers that can support a lot of things, but there's also personal perception.
Um, you know what I mean?
Like, is it my favorite?
Not, I'm not talking about Erica specifically, but you know, is it somebody that I really
want to see?
I think it's higher than maybe somebody who's got a lot of chart numbers type of thing.
So yeah, but I don't, I don't think I rank them that way.
I think I rank them by how much money they're getting paid.
I think that George Strait probably cost him $2 million.
I think that George Strait is that expensive.
You're, you may be right.
I, I'd love to find out.
Wasn't McCartney closer to four?
Wasn't that the number we heard?
I thought that he, I thought that taco rewind hit rewind and tell me what those guys at
AC told us that that McCartney cost them.
I thought it was like a buck and a half.
No, I think it was, it was more than that.
Um, and worth it.
But again, George Strait, 52 number ones, you know, the, the non country fan would have
I mean, that's rarefied air that many number ones.
Fast forward, fast forward 10 years and we're doing, we're doing ACL fast 2031.
Do you think Garth Brooks could do that?
That's a good question.
Garth is up there with, with as many number one music.
He doesn't have 52.
He's got a lot of number ones.
I think the next closest is like 30 something.
Um, Garth, I didn't have near that many.
I don't believe you don't think so.
I don't think so.
I think that in, in, when he gets to senior status and he becomes the elder statesman
of country music, do you think that Garth could, you know, find his way on a boderoo
or an ACL fast lineup like John Prine or really?
It's a good question.
And that's kind of gets what I'm, what I mean is that, you know, he he's so big that he
probably could because his fan base is so massive that it will still be huge.
Um, stay tuned to the What Podcast season 14.
When we find out, I mean, maybe, maybe I'm not trying to like make a prediction here,
but what I know what you're saying.
What if George straight being added to the top line, the first spot of ACL Fest starts
to change the narrative as to putting country artists up top instead of hip hop artists?
Well, that see, there you go.
That's your question.
It's sort of like the female, you know, headliner thing.
There aren't as many as one might think, you know, you can say, you can say you need a
You could say you need a female artist, but it better be the right one.
Better be the right one.
And you start running down out of numbers at some point.
Well, I'm just going to give you a fake, a fake lineup.
Um, headliner is Foo Fighters, Billy Eilish, Alan Jackson.
Isn't, I mean, you don't think about this probably does, but that's what I'm, that's
my point for me.
I see it.
It makes sense.
I get your, I can, I can argue your point, especially like in Tennessee or Texas.
Um, and I, I would be more interested in George straight than Alan Jackson.
I would be too.
I do it too.
But, but could you, could you be seeing the, the tide shift a little bit with some of these
regional festivals saying, you know what, we're going to find something that makes a
lot more sense for this space.
I mean, look, George straight is a completely out of left field booking.
Nobody, there's not a human being alive that would have put money on saying, you know what,
I think George straight might headline a festival this year.
But I think it gets to that point.
I mean, to me, he's not Dolly, but it's in that same realm of the Bonnaroo fans want
Dolly so badly and she's country.
I mean, there's no question she's country, right?
But Dolly is a bigger pole than George straight because she transcends so many other things.
I get that.
But my point is, I think it, I guess my point is as we've learned music fans are music fans.
The festivals try to stay in their lanes, which makes sense.
They're not going to do too crazy, but the Bonnaroo fan, as we've learned with my point
with Lionel Richie, they just want good music.
I was wrong on that one.
I can't say it how many different ways that what I learned from that lesson was the fans
know those songs just like they know tame Impala or my morning jacket.
You wouldn't necessarily think that a tame Impala or a Mountis Mouse or whatever fan
would also go see.
My thought is this at some point Bonnaroo was putting out lineup and then finally they
slid an EDM artist into the top line.
They broke that seal and now they can't unbreak it.
I wonder if ACL has now broken the seal on doing a major classic country artists and
now they're never going back.
Do you think that you see a Shania Twain in that spot or a Reba McIntyre?
I see what you're saying.
To me, it's two different questions.
Yeah, I think they definitely broke the seal.
Does it portend something crazy?
I don't necessarily think so and I'll use the other stage as an example.
They did the whole EDM so much so that they blew up that stage.
Now they're kind of now we think with doing a way of a Calliope and just focusing on.
There's not as many EDM bands as there were even two years ago.
They can change.
I'm never going to say that Bonnaroo is going to add a country stage.
That's not going to happen.
I wouldn't say never to anything.
With a Brandi Carlile three years ago, with a Marin Morris, with a Kelsey Ballerini, they
have made overtures to Young Country.
Again, it's on the heels of CMA Weekend usually.
I think those two specifically, I mean they're country but again, that's a great example.
I think they're just good and I think Bonnaroo would make that argument that they booked
Brandi and Marin not because they're necessarily an inroad to country.
They booked them because they're good.
I would argue Austin City Limits probably can make that same argument with George Strait.
I get that.
I get what you're saying and one year doesn't a trend make so we'll have to kind of see.
I'm just so blown away and this is why I love this George Strait thing so much.
It's a great pick.
If you would have laid out 500 country artists, every single one, if you asked what would
be the first artist on here to be headlining a major indie rock festival, we'd all pick
Every one of us.
100 out of 100 Dolly and then maybe get a straggler of like Carrie Underwood or Garth
But man oh man George Strait out of nowhere.
Look I haven't talked about this very much but I have such an affinity for George Strait.
I love in 80s country when I grew up it was we listened to so much country music when
I was a kid and it was constantly George Strait and even the stuff that I grew up on in George
Strait the George Strait fans like this new stuff sucks.
But I still look back on everything that he's had for and the other thing too about George
Strait is like this dude was having number one hits when he was Billie Eilish's age.
You know when he was 19 this guy was just still the smoothest cat in the world at 19
and still is.
He's one of the few that manages to straddle old and new.
I was not an 80s country fan at all but I liked what he did because he sounded like
the guys I like.
You're not a Joe Diffie fan?
I can't think of any too many new ones that I you know there's some that I respect but
not listen to.
I'm a Murl and George and Conway and all that kind of and Dolly fan and George to me manages
to straddle old and new worlds.
I hate this becoming George Strait episode but he is like the last one of that guard
You know Dolly's in a class all by herself but I'm trying to think of another 60s and
70s era country artist that's still around.
I think George is really the only one we got left.
He wouldn't be 60s would he?
He didn't go back that far.
No no no but he still represents that era.
Yeah and straddles it.
Wow I can't think of too many now.
Yeah I don't either.
So it's a bold pick.
I mean you nailed it.
You're right on it.
It's I think to see the baby on the same lineup as George Strait I did you know.
I saw that coming.
I mean now that I'm thinking about it Barry that could very easily next year be Tim McGraw.
Well and that's what I mean.
We'll have to see.
I don't know.
There's a lot more.
There's a lot more of those monster country artists that we totally take for granted that
don't get any sort of recognition.
I'm thinking of it from the point of view of like we've said what's in everybody's playlist.
You know who are the artists.
We all have talking heads next to Dolly type of thing.
Maybe not those two specifically but we all cross genres.
So I mean I'd have to defer to somebody else in their country picks.
I mean I know the names and I know the numbers but as far as like who.
I mean I'm out of Tim McGraw again.
If I'm going to ACL I'm going to go see George Strait even though I'm not a fan I'm going
to go see him.
Who are the other country artists that I would go see?
I'd have to think about.
I've seen Garth.
I would go because it's a good show.
I mean it's on a terrific show.
I mean if I had oh man if I really wanted to get brave I would almost put money that
they're going to make an overture or try to book something like a Garth Brooks.
I mean he's massive.
He sold out what Knoxville Five Nights or something crazy.
I would Shania is a good fun show.
So yeah now with all that being said the other thing that about ACL that I was going to mention
is I was lucky enough to be one of the first guys in the country to play Black Pumas and
my alternative station has led the way for the rest of the country for the Black Pumas.
And I don't only say that because I got lucky.
These guys are absolutely amazing.
They're amazing human beings.
Their story is phenomenal.
And apparently the they've gotten a key to the city.
Well I don't think I was supposed to say that they're going to get a key to the city.
I'm going to go see them.
So when you hear this I will be in Austin seeing them at Stubbs.
And then on Sunday it turns out they're going to get a key to the city from Matthew McConaughey.
These guys are taking over Austin.
I mean in the short two years time they've taken over Austin that Black Pumas show at
ACL Fest is going to be massive.
So yeah I think from when you go through the line by the way that question that we asked
two weeks ago is or even last week that will Firefly sell out Firefly sold out today.
As you hear this it's currently sold out at least you know most of the tiers festival
after festival after festival selling out every single festival is doing well.
There's definitely an appetite and nobody is struggling with all that being said if
I had to pick the one that I like the most outside of honor ACL is probably the top of
OK question for you completely random but somewhat related.
What are you hearing about the fact that all these are selling out and all in a lot of
the similar bands.
What does that do into a venue shows.
I mean it's a great question.
I think it's to be determined.
I know that haven't heard anything yet locally put it this way locally there are shows that
are selling out and then there are other shows that are struggling.
I hate to be generic like that but for instance the My Morning Jacket show in New Orleans
sold out in a day.
Loop Daddy you sold out in two hours whereas you've got other shows that are not as as
I think that you get us through the summer and you get towards I think you know what
it's going to be if I had to bet these theater shows are going to be the day of week of sort
You know I got a buddy of mine that runs a venue here and he's looking at shows that
are just not moving yet.
And you know there's really no reason for them to move.
What is the impetus to sell a ticket for a theater show that's happening in four months.
Which is so much bandwidth is used up.
They've got a 15 other you know possible shows to think about before they even get to these
local theater shows.
And my bet is they'll make that decision the week of.
So you look in the fall.
Let's see how they do in the fall.
And as a fan why would I buy a ticket now when I could see them at two or three festivals.
So yeah that's the point of the question.
Speaking of Bottery Selling Out you could still go because we have tickets to give away.
Man that was like a professional radio segue.
It's like I've taught you guys something here.
That was terrific.
We have two tickets to give away with a camping pass to the sold out Bonnaroo.
And it's very simple to enter.
And we've got a ton a ton of entries already.
Just a hashtag the what podcast on Twitter on Instagram.
Share us a photo.
Tag us in your photo.
And you know we'll find somebody that's tagged us in one of these things along the way to
give away tickets to.
Yeah it's easy.
We've gotten some great entries so far.
Somebody's going to win.
We should read some of them.
Do we have any ready to go or do that next week?
I guess we'll do that next week because I don't have any prepared.
That's a good idea.
We need to get on this.
You know we should do show meetings.
What do you think?
Next you're going to want math or something.
Anything else we need to get to before we turn it over to part one of two parts for
our how to make a hit series starring Mike Daly from Hollywood Records.
Anything else to get to?
Barry you want to talk about this weekend?
I guess we're going to do a taco and I are going to be up where Winchester for a little
win Winchester Tennessee for a mini Bonnaroo private.
Some of the robust folks and I think Rizzle and Chloe's going to be there.
Some of our Patreons.
Some of our friends will be there.
Tell them I said hello and I hope that many times you spin the What Podcast theme song
Aquarius over and over and over at that part.
We'll have it playing.
I think it's cool because it just confirms what we've been saying for four years that
this this little festival has created a whole community that's pretty amazing.
So yeah, yeah, taco will be in the bus.
I haven't figured out how I'm traveling yet.
Why don't you sleep in the bus?
You'll probably end up in the bus.
You know you'll end up there.
I thought I thought Devin and taco were already had that spooning thing worked out.
Well, that's in September.
I don't want to be in the middle of.
I mean Barry, I'll be honest with you.
You do look sort of similar to some of the women that tacos brought in that bus.
So I will say this.
I'm cuddly, but I also probably could you could you dye your hair blue?
You are in trouble, Barry.
Anything else looking at me funny on that?
His leg starts twitching, starts to sweat me in a blue wig.
Speaking of, I got new axles to put in.
Oh man, could somebody?
Oh, if only if only somebody could Photoshop Barry with a blue wig.
I think we have a match made in heaven.
Don't do it.
I bet somebody will by next week.
Hashtag the What Pat podcast with Barry in a blue wig.
Next week, part one of how to make a hit.
Our star Mike Daly from Hollywood Records, an A&R guy who's going to walk us through
what A&R is and how he finds artists, how he develops them.
Very excited about that.
From the Consequence of Sound podcast network.
Is this the Consequence podcast?
Yeah, they dropped the sound.
It's not up there.
You know what?
I just want to be Brad.
Can I just be can I just drop my last name and just be Brad exclamation?
Could you just be Bear?
That's what I want to be.
That's a little taco.
It's Barry Courter.
We'll talk to you next week.