As the news from Astroworld continues to breaks hearts, The What Podcast explores the aftermath of the tragedy. Will there be an impact on how future festivals handle security or capacity? What about artist's responsibility?
On a lighter note, Brad, Barry, and Lord Taco also make some early predictions for the Bonnaroo 2022 lineup, and discuss the new adaptation of Dune. (Spoiler: Barry is not a dragon.)
Take a listen to the new episode now, and make sure to like and subscribe to The What wherever you get your podcasts. Also, follow the Consequence Podcast Network for updates on all our programs.
Pick up the "Radiate Positivity" T-shirt at the Consequence Shop; a portion of proceeds goes to help those impacted by Hurricane Ida.
They say the waiting is the hardest part.
And by they, I mean Tom Petty.
Another week goes by, another week where boys don't call.
No Bonnaroo lineup.
No Bonnaroo dates, no Coachella lineup, but we did get a lineup from Shaky Knees.
And before we get ahead of ourselves, it's really good.
So we'll make our own lineups today on The What Podcast, plus The Tragedy in Houston.
It's all today.
Lord Taco, Barry Courter, Brad Steiner, The What Podcast starts right now.
The What Podcast, a podcast for you by us.
Is that our new thing? Is that our thing?
What is our catchphrase again, Barry? It's been so long.
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.
A podcast by Bonnaroo for people.
For the person and a guy and some things.
Which band is this year that matters is the podcast for you by us with Lord Taco, Barry Courter, Brad Steiner.
Hi guys. How are you? Hello.
A lot of things to just catch up on here today.
We anticipated putting the War on Drugs interview out today, but we're going to punt on that until next week with a special never been done on The What Podcast before event next week.
Because there's just a lot to sort of clean up and go through.
Nothing more important, though, than talking about DOOM.
Now we have been trying to talk about this for a month. We can't get to it.
I'm ready. I don't want to. Let's not start there, Barry. Where you want to start. There's all kinds of things to get to today.
Oh, and then later on today, I want to put together our best guess as to what the lineup will be for Bonnaroo with no inside information.
Right. Right. I have no inside information right now, but I'm going to put my best guess as to what it could be.
Not what I want it to be, what I think it could be.
Okay. All right. We'll go around the room for that a little bit later. Where do you want to do that one later?
If we're going to do that one later, then do you want to save the whole what the heck? Where is Bonnaroo?
Why have they gone quiet? We want to do that later as part of that?
Let's save that. I guess the place to start is probably the biggest news of the last six months is the tragedy in Houston with Travis Scott.
I think that everything that needs to be said has been said about it, but I'll let you take a swing at it, Barry.
Well, yeah, first of all, it continues to get worse. Victim number 10, what passed away earlier this week, depending on when you're hearing this, the young nine-year-old boy who was on his dad's shoulders.
This one's hit me a little hard. Typically, I can disassociate myself because I wasn't there, wasn't likely to be there.
But everything I read about the victims just reminded me more and more of not just us and people we know, but kids, children, my children.
They're nine now to 27. All just trying to have a good time. That's all they were doing is just hoping to have a good time.
Number one, so that's just heartbreaking. But I keep thinking also about our interview with Mark, the author that we talked to, Mark Myers.
Oh, you got a book, too. They sent me a book. Yeah. Oh, wow. That's awesome. They didn't send me a book because I don't read.
I told them that. But just the whole history. And I keep thinking we talked about it a little bit during our conversation with him, how much I missed festival seating.
And you guys are young enough. I don't think you even. I mean, you seem surprised by that whole idea.
But it goes back to the who concert incident in seventy nine in Cincinnati where I think it was eleven people. I had forgotten how many were trampled to death in those days.
It was first come first serve. You bought a ten dollar ticket. You got there early in the morning to get first in line and then you sprinted to the front of the stage and everybody was elbow to elbow.
And that's kind of what happened. I don't mean to interrupt, but I don't know this. Yes, story or the who story. Yeah.
Nineteen seventy nine. They were playing the arena there, the Coliseum and.
People lined up, as I said, and I get out of, you know, the other thing about back then is they never started on time, which built that sort of anticipation and whatever.
But it also so this was before the show that this. Yeah, yeah. You would line it. You would buy your ticket and it was no assigned seating.
So whoever you know, you'd get there early and then you would rush to get to the front of the stage, any arena.
You know, they had seating in the bleacher area, the and the floor was typically open, no chairs.
And so they would allow a certain number down there. She obviously didn't go on. No, not that night.
No, there were so many people killed. I mean, they they tore down or they busted out the doors, jumped over barricades, pushed each other, trampled and people died.
I bring it up to say the thing in Houston was by no means the first, but also after that thing in Cincinnati, it changed.
You know, from then on, there was no more festival seating places like I've mentioned our theaters here are very strict about not even dancing, you know, up front of the stage or in the aisles period.
That place doesn't want you to dance at all. No, but I think a lot of them are that way. And it's a health and safety and an insurance kind of thing.
Plus, they're saving you the embarrassment. Let's be honest. I mean, who really wants to see half these people dance?
Well, yeah. And there's the, you know, you kids get off my lawn down in front kind of thing. And that's the feel that it gives to it.
Unfortunately, that's what I was complaining about when we were talking to Mark. But now here we are, you know, two weeks removed from another tragedy where apparently, you know, rules, rules that had come out of that seventy nine incident, you know, and since we're not followed.
And unfortunately, people are dead because of it. So the reason it's still worth talking about to me is what comes out of it going forward for other festivals. Maybe nothing.
Maybe they'll find that the rules that were put in place had they been followed, we wouldn't have this problem. And other festivals are OK.
But I mean, I've I've been at Bonnaroo where, you know, you get in a huge crowd and you think, man, if I fall down, I'm in a bad place. Yeah.
I mean, I will say that it does strike me as it sounds morbid, but it's a baffling. It's almost baffling that it doesn't happen more often.
You know, you get these loud, these large crowds. I'll never forget the scariest moment I've ever had at a music festival. I no mean to try and apply this to this situation.
But at the first Macklemore show of Bonnaroo, the rush was so big to get to the front of the stage from like the pit line. It was so overwhelming.
I literally was picked up by the crowd. You know, nobody lifted me, but because the mass of people was pushing so hard, my body literally left the ground.
I've never felt more scared because in that moment you fall down, you're trampled. And I don't know if there's there's you say the rules.
I don't really know how to prevent that. I don't know if you can implement any rules to to stop that.
I have a feeling that most of the people, at least the ones that I talked to, who are tertiary members of these these groups like the the C3s and the Live Nations and the Golden Voices,
I think that their view of it is mostly an isolated incident. And, you know, you just you don't really see these kind of things happen very often.
And that's what I kept pushing back. But don't you think that it's very possible that it could again?
I mean, there's nothing saying that it couldn't happen again. Now, it requires having an artist on stage that's a little bit more responsible, to say the least.
I mean, the guy was just I think it's safe to say we're probably not going to be hearing from Travis Scott for a while.
Yeah, I mean, why not? Nobody's going to put him on a lineup. Nobody's going to put him anywhere near a stage because of that stigma and that liability.
Well, yeah, the liability. Plus, you know, this guy is going to be tied up in lawsuits for, you know, how long I mean, forever.
If if if the 10 victims have their their way and he should.
He was the singular reason I have this is my opinion, but he was the singular reason why a lot of this happened and could have shut it down in in a minute.
But, you know, you get in that moment and.
You just don't think. Well, I mean, there are like when I was talking about like with rules and we've seen them, they use those barricades.
You know, they create sections and they and it fills up those sections. So, you know, the two thousand or three thousand people can't surge on the seven thousand in front of them.
What I don't understand or what I'm not sure sure of is if they had those and people just jumped over them or moved them or whatever.
But I also understand there are supposed to be relief pockets to the sides so that when things like that do happen, the crowd can can expand, can move.
And those were blocked off by security. And so I don't know, they'll they'll figure all that out.
Yeah. But yeah, it's I've had it happen.
And I've heard so many people who've been knocked down and, you know, once you're on the ground, you can't get up.
And that fear and and I and I don't know if this has nothing to do with the Houston incident.
But I mean, imagine you've been at Bonnaroo, you've been at music festivals when someone has either had he's he'd exhaustion, he'd exhaustion or maybe a tad too many drugs.
And something happens and they fall out and you see this person just collapse.
And if someone's not around them taking care of them and the Bonnaroo people are very good about taking care of each other, I'll never forget the day at the Cardi B show where I've never seen somebody somebody's lifeless body being drug out of a out of a crowd.
It's it's horrifying. And it destroyed our entire day.
You know, it affects you. It absolutely will affect you going forward.
And, you know, I I'm not smart enough to tell you what to do about it.
I remember I remember you guys coming back to camp after that.
I mean, visibly shaken. It turns out I think that the lady that we saw ended up being OK.
But, you know, at the time, you're just watching this happen. And I can't imagine, you know, the the seeing the videos right or is so startling and so gut wrenching of the human beings just like screaming at right.
You know, other people. And, you know, this poor cameraman, like he doesn't.
What is he going to do? You know, what do you think somebody's trying to get at him on stage?
Yes, I got a job to do people screaming in his ear. He has no idea what's going on.
I saw that, too. And I put myself in his spot. I'm thinking he's just thinking some crazy fan got up on stage and, you know, what was the show, Brad?
And I can't remember early 2010.
It was like the this or the other stage where the female singer, she started saying, you know, come closer and they were like body surfing people from the back towards the front.
You know, do you remember? I think I don't remember. But I mean, my point is on it. It takes on a different life.
That my point is that line. That's right. Yeah. That line. Those people. It was it was amazing.
You know, the energy that it created.
I mean, you know, we sit here and talk about like, what are the ramifications for a festival?
I mean, I think it's more of an artist thing like that. Whoever did that's never going to do that ever again. Correct.
And, you know, actually, thank God. I mean, now that I think about it, it sounds like a terrible idea.
That line at the time, it was great. But I do remember hearing from even the artist.
I remember reading the next day and like the Bonnaroo paper like, oh, that, you know, I looked up and oh, my gosh, what have I done?
You know, just a simple comment had created this whole you know, once the first person did it, it became a thing. It was crazy.
I mean, yeah, I mean, we've got we've got a girl peeing on a guy's face. Yeah.
You know, like this just the oh, the days of having, you know, a barrier between, you know, the artist and like things are just going a little haywire, you know, and, you know, there got a big Frida.
I mean, she's so much fun. But, you know, and this is just a small venue.
Every show she has, you know, 50 people come on stage and twerk.
You know, even that's making me feel uncomfortable. With all that being said, it is just a horrifying tragedy.
It's it's gut wrenching because of what we do and how we are involved with this.
And this could have been at any festival that we've ever been to. And, you know, lives are destroyed and families are destroyed.
I do have just a sort of out of context question for you. You had small children.
Have you ever considered taking them to a large scale festival like that?
Well, I mean, both of mine went when they were 17. You're talking about small children.
I'm talking nine, 10 years old. Is that younger? Absolutely not. Yeah.
I remember the first time I saw basically a three or four year old at Bonnarooy walking around with headphones, you know, those ear protections.
And I just thought, why? I mean, if you're if you're concerned enough to think about their hearing protection,
I don't know where that line. Why? I mean, you know, the child isn't going to enjoy it.
You're now obligated to take care of that child. You couldn't get a sitter.
I mean, I yeah, I maybe somebody could explain that to me, but I don't get it.
I'll be honest with you. There's two places babies don't belong. Bonnarooy and Plains and restaurant.
You know, they just don't need to be there. And, you know, I'm not going to talk.
I'm not going to say anything about your you as a parent. But my God, it makes me uncomfortable to see children at Bonnarooy.
It makes me uncomfortable to see children at law anywhere with these things.
It just does not compute. And, you know, if you're a parent and you've got it, you know, locked, I'm not a parent.
I don't know what you know, you guys have to go through and what you're thinking, but it's just not something that I feel as though as a problem, a very safe environment, no matter how good there are just that.
Just the practicalities of it. I mean, I thought about that. I mean, you know, I was I'm serious about restaurants.
I'm not the type of serious about airplanes. I know. Well, I'm not the type that thinks my child is so beautiful and gorgeous.
And you're going to think so, too, that, you know, you should put up with them. Number one. But number two, it's not fun for me, you know, as a parent to have a screaming child that I'm having to deal with while I'm trying to eat.
I mean, you have me.
Well, exactly. I, you know, I have I have my issues, my cross the bear.
I just don't. Yeah. You know, yeah.
Anyway, yeah, I mean, it's I don't want to cast aspersions and judge the parents and who.
But I don't know, man. Why are you bringing a nine year old to any of this? I don't I don't give a damn if it was a Clint Black show.
You know, I I went to my first show at 13, you know, and my first show was and I've said, I don't know if I have I told you guys what my very first ever concert was.
I think so. And I think I told you Lord Taco does not know. I would never tell Lord Taco because he would.
But I'm going to tell you right now.
Was it? It was not hoodie. No, it's not hoodie.
It was a Mr. Michael Bolton and the opening act was Celine Dion at the UTC, Mackenzie Arena when I must have been 12 or 13.
You know, that's probably going to be pretty safe.
Yeah. Well, I don't know. There's Bolton women.
You could get torn apart.
Yeah. Whenever they hear steel bars wrapped all around me, they are panties are dropping. But let me tell you, you asked me if I've ever taken mine.
My my son was was into music. He was a big he liked Kenny Wayne Shepherd and Huffam Moose.
Love to wait. Wait, it's a great song. Yep. And Kenny Wayne came to the Tivoli here, the theater here, and I took Carson and he made it about 40 minutes into the opening act and then put his head on my shoulder and slept through the entire Kenny Wayne Shepherd in a packed house with people looking at me like what a horrible parent I was because I wouldn't take this child home when I was there.
I had to review the show and then he won. He liked Aerosmith and I took him. This was at the arena and he didn't make it through. He didn't make it through intermission.
Then. Yeah. Did he make it through the Huffam Moose show? He did like he did like Huffam Moose. Yeah.
I one time asked my morning guy, I said, It's amazing his Huffam Moose song wasn't a bigger hit. And he responded. It turns out no one liked it. I went to the core of the issue. Is that required for a hit? It might be.
Hey, it might be the darndest thing. We should do a show on how to make it. Make sure people like it. Yeah. First, the first goal. Have someone like it. I really don't think it is going to affect.
First off, you know, you can't affect the insurance policies. They're already written. You can't really change much of the agreements that are already signed and paid for. So I can't necessarily think that insurance policies are going to change.
You know, there might be a chance. Huh? The only thing I think would change. And again, it goes back to kind of because I've seen it happen is how strict they enforce what they already have. You know, we've been to play like, like, I'll be honest with you.
That's our views at Lollapalooza. Well, and just attitudes like that's what I've always loved about Bonnaroo. I mean, for the first eight or 10 years that I went, I never saw a security person other than the people on the horse.
I remember about the third one mid afternoon on Thursday, two or three people decided they wanted to go skinny dipping in the water fountain there. The mushroom took all their clothes off and we're just kind of getting wet, cooling off and out of nowhere.
Somebody in a t-shirt just kind of came up and said, you need to get dressed.
Also, I love, I love how you preface that story by saying they took their clothes off as if they weren't already naked. It's Bonnaroo. They're already. They were mostly naked, but they got all the way naked.
And just that's what I'm saying. It wasn't like, you know, people come flying out of the crowd and threw them to the ground. It was just a basically you need to put your clothes on.
And now it feels like, you know, a little more follow the rules, everybody, you know, safety, security, all that kind of stuff. So that to me is more what I'm looking at. It's just that attitude.
If it becomes like theaters where it's more like going to church, sit on your hands and be quiet, then the dance party is excitement than it used to be.
And it takes fun out of it for me. Yeah, I think, I think that your point would be, I would understand what you're saying, and I don't necessarily disagree with it. But, you know, these were not.
This was an act of, let's just put it this way.
The Las Vegas shooting was something that you could absolutely change your policies for. You can enforce harder. You can add stipulations. I don't necessarily know how this incident, which, you know, is not something I don't know.
I don't know how to describe it, how it's different. But I think that we all just know how different it is. I agree. Does that make sense? Yeah, I agree from a logical point of view.
Lawyers and insurance people don't always think logically. They think worst case.
Sometimes. So, you know, I don't have any proof. I just know that I've seen enough.
I've seen what happens when lawyers and insurance get involved.
It becomes about rules, and that's what I've always liked about Bonnaroo. While there always are rules, you know, rule number one is don't be an idiot. Don't be that guy. And, and like you said, take care of each other.
And they have when it starts shifting where it feels like the people in charge need to be taking care of me more than taking care of each other, it changes.
Well, I know that the death toll is horrifying, but at the same time, I think there were some some pretty important heroes in that whole interaction because I mean, it could have been so much worse.
I mean, the people I I saw people taking care of each other. And, you know, you hear the horror stories and you hear you watch the videos and you see Travis Scott being just the worst on stage. And then, you know, you see the people screaming, trying to help each other.
Right. You know, it's just a hardly any words about this.
I believe, you know, you know what I'm talking about. You know, it's always a joke because of who was involved. But you remember several years at Bonnaroo when the kid got just stoned on whatever crossed the jumped over the fence.
Don't judge me.
Well, let's see what you get where you go with it. Anyway, he ran across the freeway and came back and got hit by us. Oh yeah, that terrible story. Oh my God, that was awful.
And one of our campmates said, that's our fault, our being the Bonnaroo crowd. And I was like, what are you talking about? He said we should have taken care of that kid. Somebody should have been looking out for him.
Yeah, I see the face. There it is.
And I've just always thought about I mean, he's right.
Because that's what happens. That's like the person you saw fall out. People took care of her. That's what's meant. Somebody should I hear you. But but you know, I don't know where Bryan Stone goes in the middle of the night.
Well, you know, I know he does his thing and then out of nowhere, he decides to just go somewhere.
No, no, it doesn't mean following him around. But if you saw Brian or I saw you in camp and you were, you know, not something was bad wrong. I would take care of you. And I think we all would. And that's that's what he meant.
Yeah, it wasn't somebody was supposed to follow him around. I didn't mean that. But if somebody had seen him, somebody should have intervened and taken care of him.
I don't know, man. I don't necessarily when Lord Taco comes back to camp ping ponging his way back and forth into the from tree to tree. I don't necessarily say to myself, there's a possibility he's going to go run into the interstate right now.
Well, taco, I think Brad reveals himself when he says things like this.
This don't count on Brad to help you.
Did that just surprise you at all? No, no, of course, I'm a little different. I'm like a homing pigeon. I will always find my way home. So I'm probably not going to go the opposite direction and wander into traffic.
You know, I can I can put myself to bed. I don't understand. Okay. Okay. I, I have a feeling. I know who said this. I don't remember this conversation, but I have a feeling. I know who said this and just another eye roll.
It's just another thing. This person makes me eye roll. That's I predicted it. Then you you came through.
All right. Hang on a second. What are you? No bread. Wait a second. If if you see somebody come back to camp and they are on one, you're going to think, well, they're probably just going to go back out into the festival.
You're going to go back to what's it called? The other stage till five o'clock in the morning. No, because I've done it because I've made sure they got water and I made sure they got into their chair, their tent or whatever.
But who says they didn't know? I made sure they did. Well, nobody did for this kid. How do you know?
Because you did. Well, I know that, but that doesn't mean somebody didn't give him water or they didn't like say, hey, man, you should probably go to bed.
At some point, someone is going to go do something dumb and very little that we're going to be able to do. Sure, sure.
It can happen. But what I'm saying is what I have seen and you have seen people, if they fall out, fall asleep, complete strangers.
I've seen it over and over and over where they come up and sure. That's that's all I'm talking about. All right. That's a little bit different.
No, I'm not saying they should have, you know, tied him up when when I see somebody who looks almost lifeless on the ground.
Yes, that's something I'm going to do when I see somebody who's running around naked and decides to go run out into the street.
I don't really know if there's much I can do there. Maybe. And I don't know that. I mean, I'm trying to figure out where he got out of the.
Yeah. Plus the whole how in the world did that happen? Right. Right. So I don't know. I mean, yeah, he could have.
He could have snuck off by himself. And who knows? I don't know the total situation.
I'm just saying there is that attitude of taking care of each other. That's important.
And we did see that in the Houston video that people were trying for sure. Yeah.
I mean, I take care of my people when they come back to camp. Like for. What's that? What's that?
I mean, I offer them a Bloody Mary for someone else to make. Yeah. And get me one.
Get me one while you're there. Since she was up.
Since you're ping ponging around the. Bring me a slice of pizza.
Yeah, you need to walk this off. Go get us both a slice of this.
Go walk this off. Let's help both of you. Both of us.
The next thing I wanted to get to was the Shaky Knees lineup. And I'm going to try over the next three to four months in lineup season.
First off, I think the Shaky Knees lineup came out of nowhere. I did not expect it to come this early, but good on them.
Considering, you know, we've heard nothing from anyone about other things. Talk about. We don't even have dates.
Right. So so good on them for putting this out. Boy, they had this in their back pocket and they were ready to go.
But I think I'm going to keep myself hopefully restrained. And I'm counting on you guys to sort of pull the reins back whenever I go off the reservation and start screaming about how this lineup is incredible.
Because last time I did that work out so well for me. Yeah, you're not going to go ACL on this one. No, I'm not.
But on first pass, this is incredibly strong, incredibly strong. Your your first impressions there, Barry Courter.
Thought the same. I'm looking at it a little harder this morning.
My question is, I opened it up was if this were the bond rule lineup, would I be happy?
I'd be happy. I'd be happy. It's not two years ago. Happy.
I'd be very happy, obviously, because, you know, my morning jacket is my favorite.
I'm surprised to see Billy Idol that high up on that first day.
I mean, we saw him at Bonnaroo, what? Seven, eight years ago, and he was not nearly that far up.
Good show. Fun show. Yeah, I like it. I like it. I mean, I think it's interesting that you said if this is the Bonnaroo lineup, this is the Bonnaroo lineup.
I think the rest of all of us would be saying, where's the rest of it?
You know, I mean, Shaken is a much different product. But but I will say, I think that one of the better jobs done in all of music festival world is Shaken is, you know, I think the space is the space and it's a little wonky here and there.
But, man, I think that dude does such a good job with with branding. I think he does such a good job on site. I think the lineup is always in a certain lane and it's so well crafted and it's just getting better.
That's what I was going to say. I like the lanes.
Each day is pretty strong. Yeah.
I think the biggest surprise to me is putting Rainbow Kitten Surprise over Spoon. But I think that's probably because it's a hometown show for RKS. So, you know, if it was the other way around and this was the lineup for ACL, you'd see Spoon above Rainbow Kitten Surprise.
I mean, that's got to be the highest Rainbow Kitten Surprise has ever been on a festival lineup.
But I mean, look how well crafted each day is to service the headliner, right? You can really tell, you know, talk about lanes. We talked about it for two years now.
Just the Sunday alone. Look how well that sort of, you know, all fits together. Everything sort of fits together and there's still probably 12, you know, 15 artists short on Sunday.
Yeah, you were going to say something.
Which tells me my morning jacket is probably going to do two sets, by the way.
Yeah, you were going to say something, Russ.
I think this is my fault because last time you asked me, you know, would you go back to Shaking Knees? And I'm like, well, I don't know that lineup would have to be really good for me to go back.
And here it is. Yeah.
Yeah, you know what I like? We've talked about it too about that is if for me, I'm probably not a going all three days guy anyway. So that Sunday is if I'm going to go, I would go on that Sunday.
But the other two lineups because of the lanes make it appealing. So, yeah, I mean, I like, you know, every now and then, even though I do not like Green Day, I love seeing this.
I mean, I would see Green Day and if they were a if they were a Bonnaroo band. And yes, I have inquired and I have not gotten an answer back.
So read whatever you want to into that or don't. But Green Day would be a great is a great festival band and in the 90s resurgence that's happening right now, they fit and it'd be a blast.
I have no problem with Green Day whatsoever. Yeah, that's perfect. Also, this it turns out this is the same weekend as 420 Fest, which just killed me.
Hmm. You mean you're going to miss string cheese incident for the night night straight year? I've never been. I've never been. So I don't care how many years they've done it. It's still the first time for me.
Well, I was really well, of course, maybe this works out because I was really looking forward to that for 20 Fest because of the Turquoise show. I was like, I'm finally going to get to see this remain in line.
And then out of nowhere Turquoise breaks up. Yep. And I just looked this morning to confirm they're they're done. They're out. Yeah. So are still on this lineup, but they're out.
I really wanted to see Oyster Head a couple of years ago. Well, I did, too. Oyster Head's on there. And I'd like to see Snoop.
I think Snoop now falls into that Miley Cyrus thing, Brad, where I want to see it so I can say, but I'm not sure. Ninety minutes is going. Well, I think that you can probably pencil that in for a Bonhom show.
Let's be honest. That would be awesome. He started hitting everywhere. We saw it. I thought that you saw it with me on that Sunday. No, I didn't. I always left early.
Yeah, that year was incredible. Erica Badu into Snoop was was something pretty special. We left. That was our final show. Our final show that year was Snoop.
And I'll never forget seeing. I don't really talk to my family all that much. In fact, when I say all that much, I mean, ever.
So when I ran into my cousin, who I hadn't seen in like 10 years, and he's walking around backstage just just hanging out, just meandering around like, wait a second.
I had to like, you know, that thing your brain does where like Rolodex is, where do I know this person from? What's their name?
When you see someone out of context. Yeah. And it was my cousin. And I had to figure out like, why is it work contact? Is it?
I couldn't believe it. It was it was one of the weirdest moments of my entire modern life is running into my cousin, the Snoop Dogg show. It was very strange. And I asked him why he was there. He's like, just for Snoop.
How many festivals are the same weekend like this?
Those are the only two I know of that are on that same weekend last weekend in what? April to May? I mean, April 29th to May 1st.
Well, it's ironic that you bring up dates because we still have heard nothing. Nothing from Bonnaroo.
You know, this this is something that we brought up during the during the pandemic.
But the communication from this festival has left a lot to be desired. They've left a lot out on the field and there's just not been a lot of communication.
I've seen so many stories of people still looking for refunds. You know, they're not getting the merch that they asked for.
There's no communication about even the dates of the festival. Have we heard anything about any of this Barry Courter?
I asked our man Ken Weinstein, who, you know, is the guy to ask. And he said, no, they don't have any dates.
And I said, should I read anything into that? And he said, no. And that's it. Literally, no.
And that's I'm not putting it on him at all. He's you know, he works for the group and I'm I'm sure they have a I know.
No, I started to say, I'm sure they have a plan. I'm not sure they have a plan. But the other thing that we're seeing that we haven't seen, I've seen anyway, people, lots and lots of people talking about the lack of communication, people that have been fans like us, the lifers, you know, it's the narrative has turned.
Yeah, look at Chloe. She was one of the ones that said she ordered merch months ago and like just got a notification that the order was canceled. No explanation after not hearing anything. And she's understandably upset.
And she's, you know, the most positive person in the world. So if you turn her against you, yeah, it's almost like have you gotten to the point of no return where you're you're taking off all these long term fans.
Yeah, let me let me say this as a lifelong Washington Redskins fan. And one of the greatest sports franchises in the history of all sports was destroyed in 20 years by a really bad owner.
It took 20 years to destroy this brand, but he did it a lot of times these things and a lot of these problems can be cured when the lineup comes out.
And when you go to the festival, right? A lot of these errors can be swept under like, oh, I know harm, no foul. Yeah. But there is a level of enough's enough. Right. So and I'm not saying they're anywhere close to this, but you can only push that button so many times on someone's, you know, dedication to you.
Right. So you hope that you have more wins than losses, but it feels like there's there's there's a piling on here. There seems like it just keep one thing after another after another that just keeps.
I don't know if they're they even notice. Right. I don't know if they're even paying attention to it because they're in another world doing something else trying to figure out whatever 2022 is maybe that's it.
And they're missing a lot of the nuts and bolts of stuff. It does feel like a lot is getting missed. Well, we've we've said, I mean, it's been part of the show. I mean, never not great came from Ken Weinstein out of this exact conversation where you and I and Russ, you know, since you joined us really would joke every year.
You know, two months out that they're changing things. It's going to be terrible. Should we even do we want to go? You know, they're messing with this. They're messing with that. And then we get there and it's great.
Sure. But but all that being said, you've you had you had people not being communicated and communicated with getting to the festival last year when it was going to happen.
Based on covid restrictions, we we didn't hear about that until last minute. There was traffic questions that nobody was answering. We didn't really understand the the entrance and exits. You know, when they did communicate, though, it was terrific.
Yep. And everything was like, oh, OK, they nailed it. That was pretty good. But boy, they really do. They really have the last year and a half through the pandemic. And you know, it's too bad.
But they really pushed it all the way to the limit. Yeah, it hasn't been it hasn't. If if there is a lining, I guess it's not that it's been misinformation.
It's just been no information, no information. That's right. Which allows, you know, speculation and rumors and all that kind of stuff. That's right. That's what's happened.
And now with the tickets in the merch, that's a whole different thing. You know, now you're talking about my money and that that's that's another thing we've always me especially bragged on them is I've never felt like they were in my wallet.
You know, it was always it was always cool. Yeah. And now they're getting into people's wallets and that's it's hard to overcome if it's just you.
But you're you know, it's a competitive world. And so, you know, with four twenty and shaking knees out with good lineups. Hey, maybe I'll I'll go try that instead of, you know.
Yeah. If you can only afford to take time off and buy one ticket to a festival a year, you know, what point do you just decide maybe this year I'll go to shake it.
I'm a good thing. Yeah. Good point. Yeah. Especially when it's only you know, am I wrong? I think I might be wrong. I think I am wrong about this is shaking.
He's always the same weekend, the end of end of April, first of May. I have no idea. I don't know. My calendar is so screwed up because of covid. I don't I don't know what's left and right anymore.
For some reason, I always I always thought that shaking needs was in October for some odd reason. Maybe I'm thinking of Voodoo Fest. So the overall, I guess, lack of a better term dysfunction, even though it may not even be dysfunction.
You read anything into it? Not yet. Not yet. But, you know, Russ was right. Chloe obviously is one of those. She's she was, you know, friend of the show, as we like to say, been on the show.
She's she's one of those people willing to travel a great distance to go to these type of events. And when people when people like her sort of, you know, mad about it, it does give me give me pause.
And the fact that they haven't announced the lineup when or not a lineup, but a date when we fully expect, you know, what a lineup in six weeks, maybe seven.
February. It's usually February. Yeah. But yeah, the date the dates usually come around Black Friday so they can get the Black Friday sales.
But, I mean, with that being said, I do anticipate a Coachella lineup the next month, the next three weeks.
And and, you know, we're getting small trickles out of the Golden Voice people for Coachella. You know, at least they're, you know, posting something.
You know, I don't know what to read into it. I really don't. I have no idea how to take any of it, mainly because if it wasn't because if it wasn't for when they do communicate, it's done fairly well.
If it wasn't for that, then I might be reading a lot more into it. I would say this.
If I were, if this was my second or third, I would be reading a lot into it.
But because we have the history and have seen the Never Not Great experience come through, I'm willing to wait.
That's a good point. Yeah, that's a good point. So I wanted to get into what the lineup would be.
If it was announced today. Now, this is going to be I don't want to do this like as a prediction because, you know, unless I get it all right, then I'll say it was I predicted this the entire time.
But I would like to like what would you think they're thinking right now? Give me your top two lines and maybe a wild card and line up that you think is quite plausible for Vonaruh.
I'm going to and this is a total cheat and you can make fun of me all you want. But I would start with some sort of mix of shaky knees and 420, which means that you're not going to do anything from last year.
Then I was going to. Yeah, then I would go back.
I still think, man, I still think they have to be looking at Lizzo.
You know, there are no where's the where's the first female on the shaky knees? Yeah. Good point.
That is a good point. Way. I mean, goodness, goodness, gracious.
She golly, goodness, whispers, Dag, ma'am, talk to the people that I can do this all day. Keep going. Keep going.
He's not doing it on purpose. This is how he speaks.
Really, really? I think churches is probably the most female oriented artist and then Japanese breakfast. Yeah, that's it.
Yeah. Yeah. Added it. So I'm trying to remember. I didn't think about the last year's Bonnaroo. Who else would be on their is bull? You know, acts like that.
Well, I want your I want your three top headliners in your second line. Come on, Barry. What do you got?
Liz, I know tacos got something. I know.
And I could honestly see Green Day at Bonnaroo. That would make sense.
Okay. And then second line again, merging, oyster head, Trey. I don't know. Maybe, maybe that would make some sense.
Trey again. Yeah. I mean, when was he there last? It was fish. Fish was there two years ago. Yeah, fish was there in 2019.
Well, it's not Trey. I don't think I'm free. Yeah, they may be second line. So I'm saying merging those two snoop.
This is also a fool's errand because they don't do it like this anymore. But we're doing old school poster lineup, not the way they do it now, which is Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Right.
Oh, yeah. Well, I'm trying to kind of think in that way. So lanes, though, I'm not building lanes.
I'll look up my second hearing Barry like live put together a lineup. This is what I like. This is what I'm going for. What is it? What does taco have?
I really think the nine inch nails on there would be would make a lot of sense. That's kind of what I'm got my fingers crossed for.
The other one that I'd like to see on there is tears for fears. You know, I thought I taco right down here. My first wild card is tears for fears because they're going on tour with garbage.
They have they have a new album. They've got a tour. Yeah. Yeah.
They're going to our garbage. And the first one that I wrote down is my wife. I've got three wild cards that I don't know where you put them on on a festival lineup.
But I have tears for fears. My second one is monoskin. And then my third one's Lizzo. But right up top, tears for fears. That's a good one. My man. That's about all I got.
Okay. I got this is what I got for my top five. Now, I'm putting in the wild card Lizzo, but I'm also interchanging Lizzo with a female artist.
And I just don't know which one it is, but I would lean the female artist is going to be some sort of urban top 40 thing. So I'm going to put Lizzo there anyway, because she's already there from last year and the lineup before that.
And the fact that she has a new album coming out, right? And she's got new product. So I go Springsteen, Dave Matthews, ACDC, my morning jacket, the strokes.
Those are my five. And along the way there on that, the top two lines are at seven, eight deep. You can interchange a Lizzo, the tears for fears. And then I think monoskin is going to be everywhere.
I think these guys are going to cash in and strike while the iron is hot. Every festival they can find themselves. The shows that they have done. It seems as though this crowd is obsessed with this show.
I thought it was a pan. What is the what is the phrase? Barry pan something. I don't know. I thought it was literally here. Yeah.
I thought it was I thought it was flash in the pan. Flash in the pan. Yes, I thought these guys are going to be here and then gone. But my God, I don't know if I don't know if they're going to they're going to be stuck with us for a while.
I mean, you're going to see them at every festival. I'm surprised, stunned that Shakenese doesn't have them. So there you go. I think that that's my that's my best guess.
Bruce returning Dave Matthews band for the first time in 12 years. Yeah, I think about that one. Nobody brought up Coldplay was kind of a play isn't I don't think Coldplay's I don't think so. No, I don't think Coldplay is happening, mainly because I don't.
I'll put it for me. I don't know if anyone anticipated how bad this album is going to be. I mean, it is dog shit. It is literal dog shit. And I know how, you know, a lot of people and a lot of DSPs had to get in bed with Coldplay because they're huge.
And it's an event anytime they put something out. But I don't they did a song with BTS for Christ sakes. It is awful. That's why Brad ate it already. I hate it.
Well, I don't really like Coldplay to begin with, but that like they put out that tour with a huge gap right there in June that I think that was why people were thinking it could be Coldplay. Well, I've I've asked the question, and I just haven't gotten a lot of firm.
Yes is on this. I think we talked about a lot of me. I don't think so. I think we talked about it back at ACL with the Clint Black.
Does a Taylor Swift even enter into something like a Bonnaroo? I don't. I not at $7 million, $5 million. No. Yeah. I mean, I think it would cost them just an arm and a leg now.
Say they did it. I think a Coachella is probably more likely pulling a Taylor Swift with a bony Vare sub headliner and bring Justin Vernon and and you know the national up. I could see that happening at Coachella. I just don't know if it happens at Bonnaroo.
That would it would cost you a fortune, and I don't know if the rate of return is enough. I guess I'm thinking of it in light of are they do they have to do they feel like they have to come out, you know, super super strong and 22 because of 21 and 20 or do they just need to get back to doing what they do and let's go.
We have I have heard somebody asked that question for 10 straight years. Every year at camp. Somebody's like, you know, they're really I bet they're banking money for next year.
You know, I bet next year the 15th anniversary is gonna be really big. I bet their 10th anniversary is gonna be really it never did. No, no, I don't think they've never. They've never felt that kind of pressure.
They don't need to do anything big. They don't have to come out really swinging. They're gonna do their thing and then degree. I just I don't know. I just was asking, you know, she did the Saturday Night Live and that what a 10 minute version, which I had not.
Yeah, I'm still listening to it. It started on Saturday. I'm still listening to it's pretty long. I look I think that totally it could fit. I think you're asking two questions. I think Taylor Swift could work at Bonnaroo. Yes.
Because I think that she has tried to create enough indie credibility with the national and with Jack Antonoff and a bony Vare.
I mean, if you if you told me that Taylor Swift was going to be a Bonnaroo, I would bet every dollar that I have that bleachers the national bony Vare and Big Red Machine are playing to.
Yeah, there has to be a lane. I just you know, she's on my radar because I couldn't tell you a single song that she sings, but I've had so many people that I know and respect that I never would have imagined go to see her because it's a great show.
And I just kind of want to see it. So I don't know. I don't know if it's one of those, you know, walk bys.
Because you walk by Taylor Swift. I agree. That's what I think. I think it's a great. I want to see it. It's a big, big production.
I think that I don't disagree, but I just think that that is just in a different stratosphere than where Bonnaroo is. I hear you.
I mean, I think they're more likely to book Beyonce than Taylor Swift. Okay, I just I can't.
I'm not arguing with you. Why not? I just spot on the math.
Astronomical the amount of money. You know what? How about this? I'll go the opposite way. If I'm, you know, Ben or Steve and I say, okay, how much is it going to take to get Taylor Swift? I want Taylor Swift.
I think she would be the thing that the budget for the budget for Lollapalooza is somewhere between thirty five and forty five million dollars for talent. My bet for Bonnaroo is it's fifteen. You know, they're not telling us that number. My bet's fifteen to twenty.
That would take half of your budget. I'm willing to bet that she's somewhere between five and seven million dollars.
Maybe I'm just making what was McCartney. He was five, wasn't it? There's a buck and a half more than that. And there's a buck and a half. So maybe you could get Taylor for maybe get Taylor for two and a half. Maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe you could get Taylor for two, two and a half. Maybe, you know, I'm totally overvaluing this and it would be an absolute home run.
And even as a guy who doesn't even I can't stand Taylor Swift and I know I'm going to break every Swifties heart and I'm going to have all the knives thrown at me forever because I dare, dare, dare say something to hurt a billionaire, beautiful woman's feelings.
But no, I can't. She does nothing for me. I find it all to be a hype machine scam, but it would be a home run and I'd go.
Yeah, there you go.
I got one more topic. You guys ready? Yeah. Yeah. All right. Or taco or yours. Oh, where's yours? Oh, you want to you want to talk about how much do you love doing? How much do you so much? I've watched it three and a half times or so.
This that that was the movie and a half.
It's it's kind of like one of those to me. It's like a comfort movie. You can just kind of put on and just have on during the day and just sit down and watch it like no matter what you're doing. Like golf.
Kind of like golf.
Yeah, I loved it. I feel like this is the best treatment of the novel that we've gotten.
I feel like this is the movie we've been waiting for.
Better than better than the original.
This is the original was was not that great. I know that, but it's your hero.
I mean, it was it was good. It was a good David Lynch film, but it was not close to the book at all. This is the best treatment of the novel that that like respected the the book itself and didn't didn't deviate too far.
And it wasn't perfect. But, you know, I think for what they had, I think splitting it up in the two movies makes a lot of sense rather than trying to cram it all into one.
All right. You've read all the books or just the ones that matter.
I've read the first two.
Okay. So and there's a whole bunch of them, right? And I hope like the back half of them are not even really so books, right?
Yeah. So there's there's six main books that Frank Herbert wrote. He had plans and notes for seventh buddy, buddy died before he could finish it.
His son, Brian Herbert and another author supposedly took his notes and have just been ever since the 80s. They've been cranking out novel after novel after novel.
And it has contradicted so much stuff that was in the originals that people are just like, this is garbage. So there's really sort of like the New Testament. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
Didn't see that.
All right. So now there's the six main books to pay attention to. I really doubt they're going to get all six books adapted, but they're going to make 20 movies, aren't they? They're going to take these six books and make 20 movies out of them.
I mean, they could. I mean, this just the six books spans like, you know, 5000 years worth of story.
Okay. So the first movie takes you how deep into the first book?
Okay. You think second movie is the other half or does it second movies probably going to be the other half.
But I could, I would really like to see them maybe do a trilogy out of just the first book.
I think they could stretch this into three movie cans.
As they showed this milk this thing for as much as you at all bothered. I mean, and I'm not, I haven't read the books. Are you at all bothered that they haven't started filming the second one.
No, I wouldn't be either, man. I mean, it's just a green screen.
Just a lot of sand. No, it's not even sand. It's a green screen. That's what drives me nuts. It's everything CGI anyway. So it's not like the thing took a while. How long did it take them to do this one?
Well, it's hard to know because they, I think they had this movie ready before 2020. I think they were planning on a 2020 release and then they had to sit on it for a year and a half. They've been making this movie for five years. Of course, that was starting with nothing to make a sequel.
It takes a lot less time because you've already got actors. You've already got sets, props, everything designed. I mean, I'm sure they've got all this ready to go. All they got to do is start filming.
I think 2023 is when they're anticipating.
Barry, what do you think about it? I thought it was just slow. I mean, I didn't hate it like you did. I just thought it was longer. I haven't said a word about what I feel about the movie.
Okay. It was longer than you think. You know me that well. You think you know me that well.
You know exactly what I'm saying.
Maybe. Yeah. I know you fell asleep. So I'm going to guess that meant you weren't overly thrilled.
I mean, I didn't dislike it. I liked it. Okay.
It felt like it stretched things out a little. It could have been a half hour shorter anyway.
Plus it could have been. Yeah, it could have been.
There was a little bit of.
Felt to me like it was basically a trailer. It was a very, very long trailer for what I hope is a really good second movie with a lot more action.
That's what I felt. Yeah. This was mostly to set up for the second act.
Yeah, which is not what I want from a two hour and 10 minute or whatever it is.
It was 247 wasn't it? 247 was a bunch.
Well, I'm not going to say I'm not going to have I'm not going to dog on something that taco like so much.
But I have the problem that I've always had with the Lord of the Rings, the Dune, any of these sort of whatever size, not a sci fi, whatever this genre is.
If I wanted to spend our upon our upon our with, you know, magical dragons and swords, I just do drugs.
You know, I just do. There are mushrooms and I couldn't understand a word they were saying for the first hour.
I don't know these planets. I don't know these people. I don't know what any of these words mean.
Like I need a glossary, the entire dictionary, a Dune dictionary to follow this.
And then at the worst, there's one in the book.
I'm serious. There's a there's a glossary in the book.
And like while you're reading, if you don't know what a term is, you have to go refer to the refer to the glossary.
If you make me refer to the source material to watch a movie, I am probably going to be tapping out.
And so then my final problem is is when when whenever one of these movies happens,
they always just assume that I care about insert situation in person here.
This movie didn't give me a chance to give a damn about any of these people.
I don't know why I care about this kid, but he's naked.
I know I know I saw him shirtless twice, but I don't know why I'm supposed to care about him.
And here's the other thing to my final point here, Taco, is that everybody in this universe is got this bizarre Sarkin
Asian and Zimbabwe walk or whatever these names are.
And then you have Paul.
And a guy named Paul, what's your what's your what's your criticism?
I don't know. You're mad he wasn't named Brad and a guy.
Chip, just a random guy named Gary.
Just the whole thing made me so and then the worst part of is I fell asleep twice in the first viewing within 45 minutes.
I went back and watched it again, got through the whole thing.
I'll sleep again. I took a little nap in the middle and I don't think I missed anything.
I don't think I missed one bit of the story.
I still don't know what's going on.
If I want to be a million years old, if I lived to if I lived to 10,000, I don't think I know what was going on in this movie.
Can you answer that, Taco, if you had not read the books, if you knew very little, would you like?
Yeah, I forgot to tell you a spoiler alert. I haven't read any of the books.
I guess you don't read. Yeah, you want a glossary.
He's going to have to define what a glossary is.
It's hard to answer because I don't know. I mean, since I've I mean, I read these books, one probably 10 times starting when I was like 15.
Yeah. So the other thing I'm so familiar with it that I can't objectively say if this was a you know, if I hadn't watched it, if I would still enjoy it as much, I don't know.
Which is the other thing. I remember when my kids started reading the Harry Potter books, what a phenomenon it was.
But I remember when they made the first movie and there were story after story about the kids who had read it, who didn't want to see the movie, at least until they had read the final book, they didn't want the film to influence.
You know, I felt the same way about Fifty Shades of Grey.
Well, it was kind of the same. I was going to look like.
It was kind of the same with Watchmen, you know, like people who read the graphic novel loved it.
People who didn't read it didn't understand it.
Ross, you just made a great point that I have never watched.
I mean, I've never read. I've never spent one second with Watchmen. And I was obsessed with that show. Obsessed. I thought it was incredible.
I'm not talking about the show. I'm talking about the movie.
Oh, and I like the TV show.
Well, the TV show was it was a separate work.
This was not based on the comic. I mean, it was in the same universe, but it was a totally different story.
The movie was adapted from the comic. Oh, and the TV show wasn't.
No, the TV show was an old new story. And I love the TV show, too.
I think it stands alone. I mean, you don't have to see the movie.
But you still need to. There is based on some sort of version of what the overall story was.
And going back to the race riot in Missouri.
Yeah, I mean, it's a continuation of that storyline.
It's OK. Set later later in the timeline.
But that gets to the my point is sometimes you can read the book and your expectation.
You know, if the movie doesn't have this or that or changes a little bit.
So to hear you say you like the movie. I mean, I do.
How close to the overall book was it?
The closest we've gotten. David Lynch's was not close at all.
He completely missed the point of the book.
The sci fi channel put out a mini series about 20 years ago that was close, but it was so low budget.
I mean, you talk about, you know, bad CGI, bad effects, bad costumes.
I mean, it was just a little cheesy, but it did treat the book a little bit better than David Lynch.
This is like the best of the best. I mean, as far as closeness to the story and execution.
I like that you like it. You're in. Yeah, I'm in. I'm all in. OK.
I'll probably read the book again. I don't I don't I don't like Star Trek.
I don't like Star Wars. I don't like Lord of the Rings. I don't like the Harry Hobbit.
So I don't it's just not my thing, but I'm going to watch the second one, just like I watched all the Star Wars movies.
And, you know, here's the other thing, too, is like the later Star Wars movies, ones that came out the last couple of years.
Those I love. I love. You know why?
Because I don't need to know anything walking in, you know, I need to know very little about what's actually going on.
Oh, yeah, that's dad's mom. He's really mad. Got it. What's next?
I thought those were a phenomenal, phenomenal watch. But boy, it's a lot of work.
It is a lot of work to watch this movie.
Well, you mean you don't like Game of Thrones. Do you even want God? No, no.
See, I hated it. And I'm not a dragon. I mean, I'm not a dragon movie. Wait a second.
But I like it. Wait a second. Lord Taco, we just broke some news.
Barry is not a dragon. I'm not a dragon.
I've never seen him breathe fire. No one can prove otherwise.
All right. There you go. I love it. That's all I got for today.
All right. That's good. Yet again, going to be a short show.
And then we go an hour and every time, every time.
All right. Next week, we're on drugs with a special once in a lifetime, first ever event in podcast.
What podcast? History next week. Lord Taco, Barry Courter, Brad, talk to you next week. Love you. Bye.