GWAR Invades Bonnaroo 2024 and We Remember Woodstock '99

Hey, I'm sitting here with Barry and Brian and this is Loudwire.

Check. Is that how it goes?

It's the What Podcast. I'm Barry, that's Russ, that's Brian. We've got a special guest. We've

been talking about this forever. Russ, you and I have talked about it and we kind of have to

blame Brian. We don't like planning. We don't like thinking. We don't like whatever. Brian,

on the other hand, does. And we have been more puckered about this show than I've ever been in

in the history of the What Podcast. We've never spent so much energy. We've never planned anything.

No, no. And Beth, I mean, you should be honored, I guess. It's because we all think so highly of

you. We want to do this one right and that's 100% the truth. But we've got a lot to get through.

Namely, gore. That's what we're going to talk about first. We're going to do that. And you've

got the t-shirt behind us. I'm so this was so much fun. But it's also just your story, your history.

I'm kind of at a loss for words because there's so much that we're going to get to

with this episode and this show because it's so Bonnarooo. Everything about this

is Bonnarooo. Am I right, guys? Oh, absolutely. Yeah, the just randomness.

You know, the randomness of Bonnarooo is everybody understands that. Anybody who's been there for

any length of time understands that that's one of the coolest parts. Like there's so many cool parts.

But on the top of that list, somewhere near the top is the randomness of people you meet,

the things you do, the things you come across that you never in a million years expect. And so that

that's certainly as part of it. Here's what I want to do. We're going to show the interview that Brian

and Russ and I did with gore. And we've been hyping this thing up for since since the festival

ended. Gwar became what would you guys say? I mean, those guys gave everything they had

to this festival, right? We've had whatever you want to call them, mayors of Bonnarooo,

you know, childish. We've had Warren Haynes. We've had people who have become John

Mayors. Les Claypool, you know, yeah. But man, these guys, these guys bought in, right?

It would appear, my guess is, is that for some reason management within this pretty big

infrastructure that is gore, it's kind of its own industry for a quarter century,

they were all in from the top down of their infrastructure to say we're going to, we're going

to give it our all. We're going to, we're going to be, we're going to be everywhere. They did all

kinds of little just kind of, I don't know if I want to call them takeovers, but just presence

all over the farm in different areas. A lot of areas we don't even know about. Yeah, there was

a whole video where they took over the production truck that I, that they killed the guy who was in

charge of production for video. Like that was a small footnote that I'd only saw a clip of.

And then when we got the emails coming in and we get flooded with emails of check out this and come

see here and talk to this person. And they're not, some are serious. Some are not as much

as much just promotional emails. And then we get this one that at first I thought when you forwarded

it Barry, that it was, that it was just another big mass email and it was maybe not AI generated,

but pretty close. It, that wasn't true at all. It was a, it was a, yeah, we had no idea. A quick

response, real human of like, Hey, you know, yeah, do an interview. You want to do an interview with

Gwar. That looks like it. Now, at first I thought, man, we're the most special thing going here.

Well, they were inviting pretty much. I got over that. I've got over that years ago.

Well, and this one in particular, but I also said, yes. Yeah, of course I know. And you even did it

in character too, along with it. I mean, it was, that was taco tacos. Like, uh, what was it? Uh,

can't, what was it? You said it was the offer was that blowthor was going to be doing the, uh,

weddings. And I said, they asked if we wanted to join. And I said, we can't disappoint blowthor.

Yeah. Attention humans and members of the press. This message is free for your lords and masters

interplant an area, interplanted area, blah, overlords and kings of shock. Rock Gwar will be

devastating the da da da da da. And he goes on from there and it's like, what the hell is this?

Even their PR is in character. Yeah. Yeah. Even the PR is, it's completely in character.

Yeah. And so Russ responds back. Yeah, we can't disappoint blowthor. Uh, so we got it all lined

up and you know, we're like, whatever, we're going to get whatever we can. And then we start going

back in the media area and these guys are everywhere. Right. I mean, they are in full

costume. It's 8 million degrees. Right. And they're in full costume and we're thinking,

well, that's a quickie. They're in and out, you know, whatever. And then Brian and I are in the

tent area trying to gather ourselves, trying to figure out what the hell we're supposed to do

next. Cause and I get a text says we're ready if you guys are. And so I run out and get Russ and,

and whoever else. And, uh, we do this, we get, end up with this interview. All right guys,

what a special, special moment. We're here with gluteus maximus. Oh yeah. It's grodeus maximus.

I am the new guy. So you wouldn't know that necessarily. You gotta check that with

gluteus. That's why I didn't recognize you. Yeah. Gluteus maximus. Of course, one of my skill sets

is getting names wrong. So I apologize for that. Thank you guys for coming in, flying down from

wherever and artica outer space, wherever. Yeah. Yeah. Originally I want to have the wedding thing

go. Oh, I, you know, I was jacking off in the trailer back there, so I missed it, but I heard

it was sexy. You weren't there to bless the couple and all that. I blessed them from afar. We'll say,

so have you been worshiped adequately so far on the farm here? Uh, so far it hasn't been enough.

We're going to need another couple of thousand kind of bowing down to us. Yeah. You guys are

a good start. Yeah. So obviously Bonnarooo is a special place. What's this show going to be like?

This is my first time hearing about this place. I'm really kind of like out of the loop. So I'm

more of like a local DIY show kind of guy, you know, like playing under bridges,

lighting cop cars on fire and shit like that. So, uh, never heard of this corporate shit before,

but here we are. I don't know. Seems stupid. Yeah. You're looking around. We're seeing all

these people here. It's very corporate. So it's a little different for liquid death. Cool. What can,

what are people going to see, man? I mean, a gore show is an event.

You know, it's, it's hard to say tonight. I think we're cutting some songs from our normal set.

Uh, but you know, there may be some penises. There will definitely be lots of penises.

Yeah. Yeah. So I was getting ready for this and I asked a big fan of yours and I said,

what should I ask? He said, ask them where they source their dildos.

Dildos are all made in house by our, uh, you know, illustrious. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. All right. You

got to make your own. So, all right. Um, what else we got to know? How much blood y'all throwing

around tonight? Jeez. Make a mess. I can tell. Yeah. Yeah. It's always getting all over the place.

It depends on how many people are in the crowd. You know, some people in the crowd, at least

4,000. Right. Yeah. So one of the tips I always heard is showers are a big deal because we're

out here on a 7, 800 acre farm and it's a bazillion degrees. So go to a gore show at two o'clock or

whatever this morning. See how many people's time you can ruin. Uh, hit that shower, man.

If anything, it'll probably wipe all the dirt and you know, semen off. Yeah. Luckily we have a private

jet. So we got showers up on that bitch. So we'll be fine. Yeah. We're fucking back to Antarctica.

Nice. All right. Brodyus. Thanks man. Thank you so much. Nice to meet you.

You guys all got green shirts on. I feel so bad now. No, no. I love you guys.

So there you go. That was our three and a half minute interview with Grodius Maximus.

Uh, and it was every bit as rude as you would think. It was funny. Uh, you know, I, I didn't

know where to go with it, uh, because it was just rude, but it was funny. And then they were

everywhere. Right. That was the other thing. Uh, you guys had pictures made with them.

The, all the people who put on the festival were coming in and having their pictures made with the

the gore. And then they did the show. Right. And then they do a tea party too.

Thank you for bringing that. That to me is still the funniest thing I've ever heard of.

Have tea with gore. I think that's the funniest poster.

Yeah. This was not one of those bands that, you know, steps off the tour bus onto stage,

does the show, then gets back on and is in another city by the evening. No, they, they were here the

full weekend and they really made, they were everywhere. They were all over the place. Yeah,

they're doing all kinds of stuff like that. Just amazing. And the costumes, I just can't believe

they were walking around in full costume that whole time. You know, that's hot and disgusting.

The whole time, like on stage while you're doing your production is one thing, but to walk around

everywhere looking like that. I mean, that's her thing. So I, I mean, I get it, but, uh,

so for people who don't know gore, what are they there? Like aliens? I never have gotten there.

Alien transformer. There's a whole backstory lore to them. Yeah. I don't even know.

And so we knew, we knew that they were going to blood splatter, semen, body parts, whatever is a

big part of what they do. Right. So we were at our camp talking about the show coming up at Thursday,

right? Was it Thursday? Yeah. Thursday night at late, late night, one o'clock in the morning,

one o'clock. And, uh, so we're talking about it and Beth, you're, you're going to shoot it, right?

You, uh, so again, to bring Beth in, this is so complicated, you guys. So Beth has been going

since 2004, but you come and you, you're a teacher by day, right? But a photographer also, correct?

Correct. Yeah. Photography is my side gig. And you know, I teach, um,

teach college classes, so I'm off in the summer and, uh, I also do a lot of freelance stuff,

but I'm a photographer, um, for nashville.com. Yeah. That's our team. And if you would, Beth,

before, as we get into this, when you're, um, explain how it works when you're,

you're, you're there to shoot shows, but you can't, you can't do them all. And like, it's not,

I mean, it's not possible to do them all, but you're not scheduled to do them all and you don't have

access to do them all. And sometimes, correct me if I'm wrong, you don't get, you don't know until,

very close until it's time to potentially do the show that, that that's one that you have clearance

for, right? To explain that process. Right. Right. I mean, that's just for the biggest bands. Some

of them have lists and they'll choose a set of photographers that they're going to allow to shoot.

So that's, that's the big shows like chapel rhone, uh, chili peppers. Yeah. Some of those we didn't

get access to. Um, and we find out usually the day of they send us an email to let us know if we're

on the list. That's gotta be pretty annoying for planning to do your work. Right. I mean, it is,

and it isn't, you kind of know by this point that you're not going to, you know, it's up to the band.

It's up to the band, whether they want, how many people they want in the pit. Um, cage, the elephant

let us all be there for the whole show. So that was amazing because he was jumping around and

in the pit and moving into the crowd and yeah, it was a great show and we got to shoot the whole

thing. So, so in a lot of times, a lot of times, especially with the bigger artists, uh, and you

know, Barry, you've done this for forever too. It's usually like a three song thing, right? Like

you get in here, you get your work done in three songs. Don't look at them too like, like there's

a lot, there's a long list of things to follow, right? Sometimes for like cage or others, it's

just like, have at it guys and gals occasionally, occasionally. Yeah. It's like that for cage this

year. Um, three, six mafia let us shoot the whole thing last year because they had guest stars coming

in. Um, I think cage probably let us shoot the whole thing because they knew they'd been, be moving

around and in the crowd so much. So maybe they just wanted to give us a chance to get those shots,

yeah, get those shots, get out of their way. I don't know, but I really appreciated it. That was,

do you like doing it? Uh, I mean, yeah, I do, I did two and then I don't because then it becomes

work because then they kick you out and you don't get to see the show, but you get to see stuff that

other people don't. So, and, and I'm gonna, I mean, I'm sort of thinking along the lines of war.

You got to get up close, you know, in a space that nobody else does, but then you, as close as you

dare to get it. It's, it's, it's, it's a challenge because you, I mean, and I knew it was going to be,

I actually saw a Gwar the last time they were at Bonnarooo also. And at the time my ex was a

photographer and had a media pass and I had a guest pass. So for the first time I saw them,

I was backstage and I didn't take pictures because it didn't seem like, you know, the right thing to

do. Um, but I saw them getting, they were getting into their costumes and they had fans on them.

And then they had gone out on stage. So I kinda knew what to expect. I knew that it was going to

be, um, I mean, we're all trying to protect our cameras. So we want those great shots, but we're

also care. I mean, it's day one and we're carrying around, you know, really expensive cameras. So

that kind of has to be the priority, even though we want to really get in there.

Yeah. So that is my memory working here. When I say Beth, that that was 2010,

I think nine, nine or nine or 10. Yeah. I believe it was a Friday night and it was more in a, uh,

a timeframe that would have been earlier in the, in the nighttime. Yeah. Yeah. If I'm, I think so.

Yeah. I looked at it. I don't know what that means from that, what the difference from that to this,

but this was this year, 1 a.m. late night. So they had been there since the morning all the way till

one, one at night. And it didn't, I remember when Guar was there in 10 and they're just the urgency

to see that show wasn't there for me. That was a long time ago. Could have been a different place

this year, the urgency to see them amongst the, you know, the environment that I was in and people

I was talking to, not just from us doing the early interviews and the, and the anticipation,

the photo shoots and all that was, well, we're all going to see Guar. I mean, that's what's

happening tonight. And I was, it was like, yeah, that's a big deal. And that's why they did the PR

blast, I guess. Well, they, they put out that t-shirt ahead of time, the Guar X Bonnarooo shirt,

which I really wish I'd bought. Um, I don't think they actually had it at Bonnarooo itself. I remember

they were putting out a t-shirt ahead of time. So I think they tried to build interest in Guar

because it was the first night. Um, because it was the only band like that this year. I mean,

nobody's like Guar anyway, but they didn't have a lot of diversity in the type of music. So to have

this kind of extreme metal band. And Pretty Lights would have been done. Yeah. Pretty Lights was the

other big storyline on that Thursday, as everybody knows on the what stage. Yeah. But that was an

early set that was done by like midnight. So after that, there was only one thing left to do. And

that was the build up all day long of going to see, to see Guar. And it, it was a nice, it was a,

I'm sure you couldn't see it because you were up close, but it was a really good crowd, but not

one of those annoyingly bad crowds at the, at the tent. Yeah. I did shoot two bands in between

though. So there was, there was a gap in between Pretty Lights and then Guar that people were

walking around and seeing some shows. And so to set it back up again, but to Brian's point, and,

and it happened sort of, I hate to say organically, but we were all just sitting around talking about

how these guys were everywhere, right? And they were so cool and they were everywhere. And, uh,

we were at our camp, which you have become such a huge part of, which is why we're talking about

this. Uh, Brian and Russ and I, uh, we went from 30 something people in Camp Nut Butter to three

this year. So when we showed up, it's like, is this it? You know, or are we done? And, uh, all

of a sudden we're next to you and, uh, Mike and Brad and, and, uh, Jerry and like, wow, you know,

we're completely re-energized completely. I just want to say that upfront. I mean, we all,

I think you came over and took pictures of us when we were sitting in Russ's, uh, bus, you know,

like, man, I'm, this is, I'm, I'm in, I'm back in type of thing. Yeah. Yeah. And it was in large

part because of you guys. We were kind of de facto one camp now. I mean, it's kind of, yeah, the,

the normal, the new normal. Yeah. I mean, I might have to hyphenate it. I'd never asked you, Beth,

if y'all named your camps. We didn't, we didn't. I wish we had. So, well, then you're just not

butter. Now you just absorbed into the, I don't know. No, I think we want to cross over. I don't

know if we want to get absorbed. Fair, fair, fair, fair enough. We want to camp together forever,

but we're our own entities still within the play goire X. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to take it over.

And I want to go there because you guys crush it, but, uh, I want to, I want to continue with this

war thing. We're sitting there and, uh, I had, I brought a bunch of our t-shirts, the never not

great t-shirts, which, you know, Ken Weinstein is quote, and those are the camp nut butter t-shirts

and the What Podcast t-shirts. And I gave basically everybody, anyone who would take one because I

went out of my leftover stock, the leftover Patreon stock is huge. Correct. And I gave everyone,

and you got one and, and we got to talking about, uh, war and how funny it would be to get the blood

on it. And you said, I'll do it. Um, yeah. And, uh, I was like, yeah. And so you put on a poncho

and then an extra whatever, the biggest one we could cause they would fit over whatever.

And you're like, I don't want to get my camera damaged. Uh, and that was so cool. And you,

and this is the shirt and I am so proud to have it in my, I don't know what I'm going to do with

it. One of my prize possessions. I did it too. Uh, you glossed over me. Yeah, but you didn't get

any blood. Oh yeah. Taco really tried. Taco wasn't close enough, right? Did you get any blood on you?

Yeah. You were very close, right? Right. I was on the rail. I was, uh, and then JB, you know,

our friend JB from the rew bus camp, he was 20 feet away from me and he got soaked. I mean,

there's he wore an all white suit and you didn't get a damn drop, right? No.

Yeah. We'll compare. I had to, but that was the plan. I had to work really hard not to get too

much on me. You know? Yeah. Yep. That was the plan. We walked over together, didn't we? From

something. Yeah. We walked over and then you went into the photo pit and I got on the rail as close

as I could. I tried to get, you know, and yeah, I got nothing. And David Bruce took a picture of you

taking a picture, right? I mean, so we have all of that. Oh, was David there? Yeah. I think,

didn't he? He took a picture of the, um, cause we went over to rushing Murphy after and I got him

to take a picture of the shirt on because I didn't want to get it. I didn't want to get it dirty or

get other stuff on. I was like, can you just document that I did this? I still had the poncho

on under it. You don't want to contaminate the evidence. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I almost

check it out. I almost just wore the poncho over the shirt. Um, but then one of the guys in the

front row was like, you got the perfect shirt. You got to wear that. And I was like, okay. So I put,

they were handing out ponchos to the photographers and I put that on and then pulled the shirt on

over it. And then I kept trying. I mean, I, I could have gotten soaked, but I kept trying to get just

enough on it, you know, kind of like get myself into the stream of blood so that I could get some,

some drops on the shirt. I think I got a picture of you with the poncho on and then the t-shirt

over it and then a bonnet over your hair. And then the camera's on a little jacket. Yeah. You looked

like you were. Cause it's day one. You don't want to get, you don't want to get covered in blood on

day one, you know? Who does that? It's so disorienting cause it's day one, it's one o'clock

in the morning. You're just getting your bearings. I had just gotten a new camera body. So I was

trying to get used to that. It's loud. It's, you know, so it was awesome. Since you were so close,

see, I was way on the outside and watched a lot of it from the screen because I really wanted to just,

I wanted to see what was going on on the stage. I did both. I worked my way in. I was like, okay,

I'm gonna leave in 20 minutes. So I'm going to work as close as I can just to get a more organic look

and then I'm gone. What did the madness look like that close? Like was it, was it what you expected?

Less than, more than? I expected a lot and it was a lot. All the people in the front row were so,

so excited and wearing their white shirts and ready to go. Oh, I could, they showed them on the screen

and they were like, oh yeah. They were just so, they were so fun to talk to. It was, that energy

was amazing, especially for Thursday night, especially for this being one of the first

things that we were doing. They were, they were ready. Was it all at all a like moments of duck

and cover or was it just, yeah, it was for me. I don't know what taco you were trying to get.

I was trying to get splattered. I was trying to get a little bit. You could kind of tell when it

was about to happen because they'd bring out a character and you could see, you knew he would,

there's, there's two hanging off the back. He's like, okay, all right, he's going to get his head

chopped off and all right, it's going to, yeah. But yeah, and that's, yeah, that was great.

This is like a chainsaw thing that's going to spin. So, you know, it's going to shoot all this

spinning blood all over everything. So the photographers were just like running back and

forth. Like we would see it coming and we'd all like scurry off to one side and then come back in.

And then, and I was trying to get a little bit, but I wasn't trying to get soaked because I didn't

want to risk the camera at that stage of the game forever. All right. So now we're into it. I'm,

I, I want to hear your Bonnarooo story and I'm going to let Brian and Russ ask you questions

because I'm so fascinated by it because I, I mean, we kind of talked around it, but the fact that

you ended up next to us and Nut Butter is crazy. And it means, it means everything to me actually

because it's such a perfect, perfect Bonnarooo story. How you got there, how you ended up with

Mike and Jerry and Brad. I thought I knew the story three years ago when we ended up together,

but I don't. Brian has a great podcast, Stone On Air, where he talks about his late night

conversations with you. And we, I haven't even heard Russ's, I mean, Russ is camped next to you

for three years. So let's go head down that rabbit hole if you don't mind. Cause I just think it's,

it's just a perfect Bonnarooo story. How'd you get here? Why are we talking today?

All right. All right. Let's go. Okay. So I told you, I started coming to Bonnarooo with my ex.

We were living in Philadelphia at the time. So at first we flew and did the VIP thing.

Again, ran up credit card debt doing the VIP thing. Did that for years. And eventually he got

photo passes and guest passes. So we started camping in guest camping. And then the year we

broke up, we broke up close enough to Bonnarooo that he still gave me a guest pass, even though

we didn't go together. So I flew by myself. I had a giant backpacking, you know, set up. I had to

go pick up my credentials at the hotel. And then I walked in from the Holiday Inn and I was there

late. Cause I was teaching up until. That's not an easy walk. No, it's a couple of miles. Yeah,

a couple of miles. Yeah. And a lot of people are wondering what you're doing and might try to stop

you and figure out, you know, yeah. Or if you just act like you own the place, like I've done in time

or two, they leave you alone. Works for me. Yeah. Works for us every time. I tried to be

harmless, but yeah. Yeah. You know, it was, that was a rough, that was a rough transition. Cause I

was, you know, I, um, I'd been going with this guy, we've been together for 12 years and, uh,

you know, so I was sad, I was alone. I was determined to do this, but I really, you know,

I didn't know what I was doing. So I walked in and I was late because I had to teach on the

Thursday. So I think I got in on Friday and, um, I walked in every, like camp is all full.

There are no spots. It seems like I'm overheating and dehydrated and, um, I was, I was, I was

in the tent and, um, this guy who looks like the dude from the big Lebowski kind of looks at me

and this is Brad and, uh, he, he said, uh, you want to camp over here? And I was like,

okay, there's a little tiny spot for my tent. And I started setting up and he's like, you need some

help. And I was like, no, I'm fine. I'm starting to like, just really set up my tent, which I can

do. You know, um, you can always use help putting up a tent, no matter who you is. Well, after a

couple of minutes of watching me struggle, he came over, he handed me a cold beer. He started

helping me set up my tent and that's how I met those guys. And so I've been, what year was that?

Beth, what year was that? Um, I think it was, I think that was 2011. Okay. Um, so I camped with them.

Then Mike wasn't with us yet. We had another, another Brad, so Brad, Brad and Jerry. Um,

and then the year after I didn't have a guest pass. So I camped in GA and I just met up with them

at the shows. And then after that, they got me in through Nashville.com because I was already working

as a photographer in Philly. Um, and so eventually I got to take photos for them and I've been doing

that since pretty much. I missed one boner. I missed 2017 or 18, the one where the killers

had lined. I've said for a couple of years that, uh, we, we ended up next to you guys, uh, three

years ago, though, um, I, we didn't get to talk much because I never shut up because I was also

with Nate Gale, who also never shut up. And so I never got to hear all that.

Yeah. No, I mean him a lot of credit though. He's, he was, he's been awesome to me in the photo

page so much. So shout out to Nate. He's taking pictures, but he can't, he can't stop talking.

He would admit that. So we all were together and I just assumed you were married to one of those

three. I just always this whole time thought you were married and, and, uh, I never shut up long

enough to hear, uh, and again, last year, same thing. And then, I mean, I think we were what,

Thursday, Friday, Saturday, before you and I started talking, I was like, which one are you married

to? And you're like, no, I'm like, maybe if I would shut up and listen, I would know these sort of

stories. So anyway, yeah, let's go back to, I guess that was 2021, right? That was the first

year that no, 2022 when, uh, you know, first year when they kicked us out of the, uh, guest

camping area, turned it into nine three one. So, you know, and of course I show up on a Tuesday

and they just send me back to this empty field back behind. You're the first one there every time.

So the first people, people just come around and build around you, Russ. Yeah. And that's sort of

what happened. I mean, y'all showed up what's probably Thursday, Wednesday or Thursday, right?

Uh, yeah. As early as we can. Yeah. As long as you can show up as early as we can. And, uh,

I don't even know how we started talking, but y'all were camp nearby and you know, Barry,

you weren't there yet. Brian wasn't there yet. Brad wasn't coming. So I was pretty much holding

it down for camp nut butter. And so we just kind of ended up doing a good job with that. I would be

a nervous wreck trying to be that guy. Got to make friends to keep it together. Wait for all my, uh,

yeah, that's true. So the bus is a good conversation. It does draw people in. Yeah.

It's a good opener. It brings people in. But the other thing I want to say about you guys is you

guys camp right. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's simple and not too big and extravagant, but it's

very, it's very efficient. Like there, you've got, it's very, it's, it's all you gotta do is take a

look around and be like, okay, I know where everything is. All right. I know how, like,

there's no questions on how this thing rolls. Like it's very, very efficient. Yeah. My favorite

thing is that chuck box that you drag out and set up on the, on the legs and you open it up and it's

got all your paper plates, all your, uh, you know, condiments, everything you could need. Oh, I like

the shoe, the shoe rack. The shoe rack is good too. Yeah. We add stuff every year. Unfortunately,

I can't contribute that much to it. Cause now I fly. So I moved to Washington state and now

I fly out. So I got to give credit to all those guys. They bring, I mean, we think about it all

year. We text about it. We have a group chat. I guess our, our group chat is Rue crew. So you can

call us that if you don't want to refer to each of the names. That's what I wanted to ask about is

that sort of thing, the planning, because again, the three of us, you know, I mean, we came

minimalist. Yeah. Well, we used to, you said we went from 30 to three. That's not an exaggeration.

And we used to rely on a lot of people to do a lot of things that we didn't have to do.

And now everybody brought something picket fence, carpet tent, bloody Mary. Brian always brought the

vodka and the bloody man. Everybody had a role. And that's what I wanted to ask about. Cause like

I said, I just always assumed you all were from Nashville and somebody was married and you just

did this all the time. But I mean, you come from across the country, right? So how does that work?

We, we ramp up our texting ahead of time. You know, we, we kind of text occasionally through

the year, like we'll say happy new year or whatever. But as it gets closer, we start talking about the

grocery list. We have a shared list and we put on things on that. Um, lately Mike has been doing

a lot of that shopping for us. So he goes to Costco and, you know, fills out the list. Uh,

everybody thinks of things to add. So we keep doing that, but we also do really careful because

we have four people and we don't know if we're going to be able to get more than one car in.

So the packing is really complicated with bringing an easy up and the tents and the,

the gear and that, the, the thing that you talked about, I don't really know how to

describe it. Yeah. The shoe rack is the only thing I know. The corner shoe rack.

Yeah, there's the shoe rack, but we also have that. That's easy to get in. It's a boy scout thing.

It's solid wood. The other thing, that red thing, the chuck box. We always have to put on that on

the top of the car. That pretty much stays packed all the time. Um, and Jerry puts new stickers on

it every year. So that was a good, good purchase, but we're thinking always about maximum fun and

best food. And then also being able to get all that into a car with four of us. Yeah. Y'all

sure killed it with the food too, this year. It's a lot of planning. Yeah. Yeah. We stepped up our

food games. I don't know what all else we had. There was, yeah, there's food being made on the

surprise. Yeah. We had all kinds of good food. We had really good food this year. Mike did a lot of

good stuff. I missed all this. I got a breakfast burrito and it was killer. And I missed all the

rest. Yeah. I got the stir fry dinner. Brad does breakfast burritos. I mean, Beth, so Mike and Brad

and Jerry are great guys and you guys have a great camp. Why do you come back? I mean, that's a long

trip for them. For them, why do you come back? I mean, for them it's in Nashville. It's an hour.

I mean, you're coming cross country. You got a- We're free Spurrow, yeah. Yeah. What is it?

I mean, it, you know. I mean, you know, you can kind of see bringing it back to all this stuff.

This has been, this is what I do. This is what I've done my whole life. So I went to Lemon Wheel in

98. I went to Woodstock in 99. You know, I then traveled, like that led me into traveling by myself.

Then we went to Bonnarooo and just kept doing that. That was our thing every year. And I, it's gotten

even better since I now have a creative outlet. So I feel like I'm also being creative at the festival

as a photographer. Well, yeah, I a hundred thousand percent get that. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, I mean,

it's, it's work now. So it's changed things. I'm not just going to relax and just, you know, hang

out and see whatever bands I want, but I'm interacting with it in a different way. And

now that I've moved from Philadelphia to a small town, I don't get opportunities to shoot anymore.

So this is it. I do everything all in that weekend and then pick up my friends bands on

national tours when I can. I think Russ and Brian, I know, I think you just spoke for me that

people don't understand. I, I go for the community. I go for the people that we've met, but it is

exactly what you just said. It, it feels, this is my opportunity to be inside of something really

cool and creative and be a small part of it in whatever way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't

matter how small that part of it is. Yeah. It's still, it's still, why don't you go and shout out

your Instagram speaking of photography? Oh yeah. ETHORPE photo is my E-T-H-O-R-P-E photo. And I need

to put some more of the ones up on that. That's my, that's my pro thing. And then national.com.

So I shoot for them. So the Bonnarooo photos should be up there. And yeah, I mean, I have a website.

It's Elizabeth Thorpe photography.com. But again, I need to update it. It's really hard because

I love, I love being a photographer, but it is, it's my side hustle because I, I teach college

classes. Everything else is in the writing English world. And this is my visual outlet. So it's not

really a business yet, but I would love to do more with it. Well, we have another connection too,

right? Cause you've been joining the Twitch streams for the last year or so. Oh yeah. I've been on the

what? Yeah. My duck. Yeah. I've been, I've been watching taco on Twitch. So I'm part of that

whole group. Why are you doing that? Oh, it's, you know, you just kind of, it's the community.

It's yeah. I'm getting too much free time as well as that. Well, I haven't had any time to do anything

on Twitch lately, but hopefully you haven't been on there in a while. Hopefully I can get back on here as things

kind of wind down. But yeah, that's another way we've got to always look out for. Yeah. It's another way

we've stayed in touch for the last couple of years. We're going to have to explore this idea of guys

on the show, this idea of, of it being a creative outlet for other people like us. I mean, you know,

our friend David, obviously David Bruce and you, we, so many people, Bonnaroo is more than just,

that's what people don't understand. It's more than just going to see a show. I don't think people get

that the layers and layers and layers, the people who spend all year doing things and have created

other outlets. Well, let's just speak to that real quick, Barry. I think it's cool. So I mean,

the creativity of the general attendee has exploded in the last 10 years from just the simple little

wristband sharing thing to the, to the, um, the costumes and the dress and the fashion and the,

and the camp and how, and how they've, you know, created. So there's a creative element and now

that, you know, Instagram and it's turned into a more popular, better to most people, not to me,

but version of TikTok where you can kind of create, you know, everybody can be a creator.

And I think everybody gets a little bit of a, of a feel of that, right? Like, I mean, I, it feels

like to me, and it's not just, Hey, look at this band I saw, look at this thing I made and look at

these people I hung out with and this other things we were involved with. It makes you feel important.

Well, look at totems, right? Totems went from like a sign on a stick to the other electronic and light

up. Yeah. Yeah. They're, they're incredible works of art themselves. And so it really does feel like

a part of a community and something that you're contributing to, even if it's like, you know,

tiny some out, but it's still, and I think people get a lot of joy out of that. And that's something

that's very unique to, you know, maybe Coachella, you know, got their own version of this, but

yeah, this side of the country is Bonnarooo. Who else? Lollapalooza doesn't have that. It's a concert.

You go see Jane's Addiction and you rock out and you have fun and then you go home. Yeah. I mean,

it's still a fun, it's a great, it's got its own little ethos, but it's not this. And, um,

that's really fun, really fun part of it. So, and, and I've asked you before, is this the only event

that y'all do, but it's, it's not right. So far. This is it. This is the only event we all do together

so far. Um, I'm thinking about coming for cave fest sometime if I can make it work. I was there

at cave fest last year and saw, uh, you know, Mike and Jerry and Brad. So, uh, yeah, we've already

talked about doing it this year. So yeah, if you can swing it. Yeah. It's a long weekend for me.

So if I get flights, I might be able to, I might be able to do it. All right. So I'm gonna let you

and Brian, cause y'all ended up having a late night talk and I have to imagine I was snoring.

There's no way I was not. I don't know how you guys talked over. I think even I went to bed.

I don't think you were there, but y'all ended up having a really unusual conversation where, uh,

your pads crossed, right? And I really want to hear about that. Yeah. So, um, we were, uh,

if I remember right, Beth changed me or, you know, correct me where my memory's not working. Um,

um, it was late on Saturday. So pretty light show was good. It was going to be the, the, the sun,

sunrise. Right. Yeah. And we were both in the media area kind of for like the final time for the day.

Maybe I'm usually there just to get everything powered up. So I don't have to worry about power

until the middle of the next day. That's basically what I was doing. And then it was just kind of

like, Hey, let's, I mean, go hang out and just chill for a little bit. I mean, I think everybody

had already, everybody had crashed. Russ, that was the night we didn't know if you were gone for the

rest of the weekend or you were asleep earlier than ever. And it turns out you were. Yeah. Yeah.

There was deep. Did Russ find a girl? Like he's in center with some girls or something.

There was a lot of speculation. Like where is he at? Is he in there? Would you want to knock on the

door? Right. Where's the blue haired girl that Russ found? Yeah. Exactly. I did the most boring

thing and just went to bed. Yeah. Yeah. And I think Barry had already, you, you were already out by

that point. Yeah. So, um, yeah. So then we just started, you know, blah, chit chatting for, you

know, most of the night. And I mean, it started, this was a late start. I mean, it's probably like

two, two AM. So it's not like it started at like 10 PM and went on night long, but you know,

I'm thinking hang out for a few minutes, call the night soon because Sunday, Sunday was my favorite

day on paper. And I needed to make sure, you know, I, Barry and, and, and Beth, you reminded me of

this. I said, there's no chance I'm going to be up all night on Saturday because I have to have a

good Sunday and then roll the clip. Yeah. And it turns out, well here, and you could hear the

pretty light set quite well from, from where we were, which was cool. Yeah. Which was cool.

And just started chit chatting about things. And you know, the two, the two biggest ones that stick

out was, uh, we were, uh, both went to Woodstock 99, which is one of my favorite, uh, topics.

And most people who didn't go, don't care at all to talk about it because everybody knows about

the infamous stuff. So it's like, let me tell you about all the fires. Yeah. Well, no shit, dude.

We already know that. Um, and if you weren't there, it's just like a bond or if you weren't there,

it's hard to explain. So there's very few people that I ever, especially 25 years later, get to

talk to you about it. But then the other one that, that I about said, all right, it's like,

I'm getting punked here or somebody's gone. You know, I'm, I'm my, my, my information's been

leaked online and I'm being, you know, stalked or followed. And, and, and this is a black mirror

episode from Netflix or something was the very first show that we, that we had both ever gone to.

And you start without parents, without parents, you, you start with that, who it was and where,

I don't remember where it was. I w it was in, um, old Orchard beach, Maine for me. Cause I grew up

in Maine, eventually moved to Philly, now live in Washington. And it was cracker, which is still to

this day, one of my favorite bands, spin doctors and gin blossoms. The last two thirds of those

for the next 15 to 20 years, I felt embarrassed to tell people that that was who I went to see for my

first band. Um, I went to see cracker. Um, but I am quite proud of all three of those bands in my

older age now. And when you said that, I was just like, uh, hold on a second. Now it turns out at

four, I was 14 years old in 19, that was 1994, correct? Yeah. I think it's 1994. Yeah. Zach,

same tour, same year. And, but mine was in Atlanta at Lakewood amphitheater and a boy, it rained and

if I was an adult, it would have sucked. But I was a child who was having the time of my life,

finally not having parents and going to a show. It's probably what sparked all this for the next

20, well at that point now 30 years, but me too. Yeah. Yeah. It rained at mine too. And I remember

the ground was dry because we were packed in so tight and the crowd was moving. And when you look

down, it was, it was raining on us, but the ground was dry. And I just thought that was so cool.

Was that moving with the crowd? Was that an amphitheater kind of thing? It was a minor league

baseball stadium. Oh, okay. So it was an outdoor show. Somewhat similar to weigh an amphitheater,

except opposite seats behind grass up front, amphitheater seats up front, grass behind.

Um, that was just, uh, just so these connections were just like, this is, this is not real. What?

Yeah. I'm going to ask only because of the anniversary. It's 25 years Woodstock 99.

I mean, I've seen the documentaries, Brian, I've made fun of you at, you know, at, at length,

because you know, I, the line that I remember from the documentary is your generation was

pissed off, wanted to be pissed off at something and had nothing to be pissed off at. So that's why

you guys destroyed that, uh, venue. That's you guys, nothing. I didn't destroy anything either.

That's what I want to ask. You guys had a good time. Where were you when the fires,

which one of you, which one of you said everything on fire? I know is one of you.

That wasn't me. Yeah. Well, you, that you start, where were you? That's a good question. Where

were you Sunday around 7 PM plus onward on Sunday? Where were you? Um, well also just to back up a

little bit on how I got there. Um, I, I went to what Woodstock 99 by myself also. So that was my

first, no, it was my, we're both complete loners. Like to me, I'm like, yeah, of course. Why wouldn't

you? Yeah. Yeah. Angry teenagers, just angry teenagers. That's all I guess. Or just like the

person who was into music enough to do that. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Like spend, you know,

save that money, spend that money, take the trip. I did a, um, a tour bus thing from Portland,

Maine to New York for Woodstock 99. Wow. And, um, I met people on the bus. So I made friends with,

you know, I went by myself, I was terrified to do it. I had gone to the fish festival, Lemon Wheel,

by myself also. So that kind of led me into it, but I was really scared and I almost didn't go.

And I got on the bus. We found out that we couldn't bring in glass bottles. So everybody was just

passing around stuff, drinking on the bus. You couldn't bring in anything effectively. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So people are just passing around their alcohol and I don't know, we just all bonded.

And I think there were about six of us that just stayed together that whole weekend. So we were

together that last night on Sunday before, or when the fire started, we were watching Chili Peppers

and we saw the fires from farther out. And my one friend that I had made had brought a rope.

So we all, for this purpose, we all hung onto the rope to get us through the crowd together

and get back to our campsite. And we had already packed up all our stuff because the bus was

leaving that night and it was supposed to rain. So we had all our gear ready to go. So we just got

back to camp and got out of there. See, I had this sad image of Brian with a rope, but no one else

is holding onto it. It's just Brian with a rope. Where are all my friends? Brian's hanging himself

with the rope. All by itself. Nobody will grab the rope. I wrote down, and this is, I'm glad you

brought that up, because this is when I remember talking to you on Friday night, I think. This is

not unusual for you to go to these type of things by yourself. And we've had several people on our

show who have done this hitchhiked, Yvonne, I think hitchhiked from New York, upstate New York.

Right? That is such a wild idea to me. I can't imagine the, you know, whatever you want to call

it, the stones. It's foreign to us because, you know, we're so close to Bonnarooo. We just like,

you know, roll down the hill and we're there. You don't have to. Yeah, especially in present

day times. And I'll even use 99 as present day. You know, you go back 30 years from there and

hitchhiking across the country was a pretty normal thing in the counterculture. But it hasn't been a

normal thing in my adult life. I mean, that's a thing you got to be pretty careful of. But,

yeah, the loner aspect of it is an interesting... Are you glad you did it alone? Would you rather

not have... talk about that alone? I mean, that's just such a good for you because I couldn't do it.

I would never. I'm not that guy. Well, ultimately, I mean, I'm glad I've done it both ways,

you know, especially with Bonnarooo. I go now for my friends, you know, I wouldn't... Well,

and for taking photos because I love doing that. But, you know, and even then it's all about the

photographers and making friends there. Yeah, it's friends you wouldn't have made unless you had done

this alone, you know. Yeah, that's true. That's the good thing about solo travel because you do

get to meet people when you wouldn't if you're just there with a friend and you're talking to that

person. Exactly. If you go in one group, you pretty much stay contained within that bubble.

But if you're alone, yeah, you're open to meeting all kinds of people. Yeah, I mean, the first time

I did it, I went to Lemon Wheel. I had been to a fish festival. I guess that was my first. Anyway,

I went to Lemon Wheel. I was in college. I was packing up with my friends. I got tired of waiting

around for them and I just drove my own car up there. So that was the first time. Story of my life.

You know, let's go. Let's go. They're going to start. We're going to miss it. So I just...

Hold on. I got to get a hold of Jimmy. He's got to run over to his mom's house. That's it. I'm out.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I'm tired of waiting. That's what kills me. Oh, I got to get some money out of

the ATM. Oh, that's right. Because we haven't been planning this for a month. You need ATM money now.

Seriously. Yes. Yes. I love those guys, but you know, yeah. So I went by myself and I just can't

by myself the first night. But then I ran into them the next day in 65,000 people or whatever.

I ran into my friends and then I hung out with them after that. Yeah. It's crazy how that, I mean,

amazing that that happens. There's a story that's only important or interesting to the people I know,

but at Woodstock, it's same kind of thing that we had three different car loads. Two were caravan,

one was wherever. And then eventually in the middle, I can't remember who it was. It might

have been raging against the machine. Boom, pops out my buddy. It's 200,000 people here.

Yeah. We didn't travel with you. And there were some seriously bad drugs going on that weekend.

And it was, it almost gave me a panic attack. I'm like, what are you doing here? How am I running

into you? This is insane. This is not the, you know, at Bonnarooo with these days for me, since I've

been around so long to run into people I know, I mean, that's almost expected. Four states north

and however many thousand and whatever miles, you know, that was pretty cool. Now we didn't,

I didn't do Woodstock, you know, by myself. We had seven of us and we were, I'm a little younger.

So we were 19. I don't know how we survived. Like, I don't know how, not from the danger,

not from the fires, not from the lack of the amenity or the water and the, all the stuff we

all know about. None of that stuff. That's not what I mean why we didn't survive. We were barely

old enough to be out of the house. Yeah. And we're just driving all over upstate New York,

no idea what the hell we're doing. I don't know what, we couldn't bring anything in. So I mean,

it was, this is the worst festival that's ever just been organized in the history of music. And

you park way outside and you drag all your shit. Can you imagine going to Bonnarooo and then just,

Hey, get your stuff out of your car and drag it in a half a mile. And then good luck. Like it was

at that time though, it didn't seem weird. I was just like, okay, this is what we do.

Yeah. Just normal. All right. Let's just throw our tent down. No shade, no easy ups, no tapestries,

no flags. Boy, the whole story when we got there and started setting up tents and, and 10 minutes

later, it looked like you were on another planet. Like where do we go? Sounds like my first Bonnarooo.

I mean, well, a little bit, a little bit because of the, how, um, how new of a concept, at least,

you know, to us in America and certainly in the South. I mean, I told the story, my, I,

if I didn't bring an umbrella that happened to be in my truck, we would not have had shade.

Yeah. I, I bungied it onto a table that I happened to have and we, you know, moved around with the

sun. I didn't bring shade. My memory is just not, it's not vivid enough to remember like two,

I'm talking Woodstock again, like two o'clock on Saturday or two o'clock on Friday. I don't remember

that, that those memories are gone, but I don't know. It's shocking to me that we, with 95 plus

heat days, no shade, no campsite worth speaking of, no money, everything cost like eight to 10 times

more than everything else you've ever seen in your life. I don't know how we did it. I just don't,

we didn't have cell phones. I didn't have a cell phone at 19 years old. Did you feel any danger

there? Did you feel uncomfortable? And what did you see, uh, music wise that stuck out? Because I,

I didn't see a lot of music because I was dying of heat exhaustion the whole time I was there.

I was dying of heat exhaustion too. Definitely. I got really sunburned and really dehydrated. Um,

but I really didn't feel unsafe. I think it's because, and I've, I've learned this and developed

this as a solo female traveler, I really try to fly under the radar. That's kind of my style anyway.

So I'm wearing like a tee, a band tee shirt. So you weren't walking around topless and naked is

what you're saying. Which it's, I'm certainly not blaming victims in any way. No, of course not.

It's just that's something that I do to protect myself. It's just to fly under the radar, kind of

look like a dude and, you know, just skate on by. But it's a recipe for disaster. We all know, I

mean, Netflix and Max both have a very extensive documentary on this. If you really want to get

deep into this, I suggest you watch those. We won't go into all that, but sorry back to, so you

didn't really feel in, in, in danger, which is great. Cause none of the, we had females with us

and their story would be, we didn't feel in danger either. Uh, what about, what about music specifically?

Um, and I also, the side note to that, I didn't feel like I was in danger because I had a crew.

I mean, I guess I would have hidden and it would have figured it out. There was definitely that

undercurrent and I see that from the documentaries. There was, now that I look back on it, there was

an undercurrent that things could go bad at any time. Not necessarily, I didn't really feel violence

toward women, but just that everything could just, it wasn't a particularly well-run festival and

everything could go bad. Um, so, so there was that, uh, and to that point, I, you know, my, my sort of

hippie heart, I, I really wanted to see Guster because I was a fan rep for them. I sold their

CDs. Um, they fit in with that whole spin doctors, gin blossoms. Oh yeah. Yeah. Gus was right into

that. They were early set early Saturday. Yeah. Doing the jam band kind of thing. So my friends

that I had made and I'm sure I was kind of annoyed at this at the time, but they didn't want me to

go anywhere by myself. So they must've felt some sense of things being a little off. So they split.

So they, instead of going to see Kid Rock, which I mean, ultimately may have been the show to go just,

just because- At that time. That was, at that time, that was him at his peak, whatever. Um,

instead of going to Kid Rock, half of them came to Guster with me because I was, I was going to see

Guster no matter what. And quickly, so people who don't know that those are, I've got the line up

in front of me right now. Um, Kid Rock actually, actually, yeah, show that. Kid Rock actually blew

up because of this show. He was not really to that level yet. Yeah. And, uh, but he was like the

minute that show was over, Kid Rock had Limp Bizkit and Kid Rock turned into what they were

solidified with this show. But yeah, uh, one o'clock was Kid Rock on the main stage. And then one

o'clock was Guster on the second, the second main stage, which is, which never in all the documentaries

and everything you see, everything you read, nothing comes from the West stage, which was where

Guster was. You know what it is. That was a beautiful stage. That was a great, there, nothing

bad happened there because Collective Soul played there. The Roots played there. Uh, George Clayton

played there. Um, Mike Ness, Our Lady Peace, Rusted Root, nothing bad happened over there.

It was, but the point I was about to make that I didn't, these stages were a mile apart. One

mile. You had to really go into that other stage. On a tarmac, a landing strip. This is a former

military base, a military complex waste dump is what it ended up turning into on a tarmac

mile. So yeah, Hey, let's run over and see this. No, that's, that's a mile on the asphalt at one

o'clock in the afternoon on a Saturday. You could, you could die on your way over there if you're,

if you're malnourished and, and, and, and not hydrated. Yeah, I'm really glad you brought up

that topic about the, the, uh, being a woman at an event like that. Cause I felt like that 99,

though I wasn't there, but I, I remember 07, 08, Bonnarooo thinking how things had changed.

Like the fact that a female could go to a Bonnarooo by herself and walk around by herself

and feel safe. Uh, not that I'm a female and I don't mean to even pretend, but I just remember

noticing it was such a difference than a decade earlier or even 20 years. Uh, you know,

where you just didn't see that. I mean, I don't know how else to put it. You know, you had to,

it was like your girls could be there just for the music. They, they didn't have to travel in packs

and be looking over their shoulders all the time. And I remember noticing the difference. So it's

interesting you bring that up. Yeah. The, the late and these documentaries lay this out, um,

pretty well. The late nineties was an interesting time. The seventies was horrible.

The seventies was horrible. Technology was starting to take off. People were starting to

begin to communicate a little bit more than their average traditional ways. You know, the biggest

political story was Monica Lewinsky. You know, I mean, there was, there was this sense of,

and it was coming out of the grunge movement into the more angry in a different way music, like

grunge was angry in a poetic way. I would say, and, and the music to the mid to late nineties

was anger in a, we're not trying to hide it at all. I give me something to break, break some shit.

Give me that's not grunt. You know, that's not poetry. That's, that's just, that's, that's

declaration of break things. Like the words don't, there, there's no hidden meaning. Go ahead, Beth.

Sorry. Well, I was going to say, I mean, it wasn't, uh, that's, that's the way people think about

Woodstock, but it was also range against the machine who is angry with something to say,

you know, and it, uh, corn who I guess are kind of just breaks shit, but we had a little more

poetic performance. Yeah. Yeah. Corn was one of my favorites at Woodstock 99. And then also bringing

it back to Bonnarooo when I got to shoot them last year. I mean, that's like the Holy grail. That was

amazing. Yeah. The corn is, uh, I was not a fan of corn back then. And I would put them in like

right in the middle of I'm angry, but I'm also poetic. And, um, and I think their music has

aged so well, so well. That's what made the Bonnarooo corn set. I mean, Barry, you, you know,

we were surprised when all of us, yeah, we were all up from Tara from all our, our, our whole camp.

We were like, can you believe this corn show we just saw? And, and, and, yeah, I believe it's

because it has aged so well at that time, their peak of popularity was hitting and it was angry

sounding boy. It was angry. It sounded angry as hell. And that was night one. And that was when

everybody was full of energy. That was Thursday night of Bonnarooo. Like when everybody's at their

best and peak energy, that was how it was on Friday. And that place was, uh, I mean, it seemed

like we're at the greatest place in the world. Yep. There's nothing better than this. Then you

wake up on Saturday and you realize you're on a toxic waste. Yeah. That really sums up

and waters are four to four dollars. Perfectly well in 1999 for $4 for a water. And you're all,

most everybody's under the age of 25. I mean, I'd say half the crowd is under the age of 25.

Doesn't that sum up Gen X perfectly well? I mean, just being angry at something, but you don't know

what, you know, the baby boomers had, you know, Vietnam, I know. Yeah. No, it's just, it's hard

to find. You know, World War II, Gen X was really the first generation in a while that didn't have

a big war or something to be mad at. So we were just angry just to be angry. Yeah. All that's

fair. All that's fair. Um, uh, and that was kind of, uh, I just watched the Netflix again,

one last night actually, or the last two days just to get ready for some other stuff I'm doing. And

for this just to refresh and Michael Lang, who is a promoter of all three of them who died a couple

of years ago now, he, and he's, you know, just a terrible promoter, but somehow continued to be

able to keep being involved with these Woodstocks because he's so famous from that first movie,

from the first 69, the, the, the late, that thing saved the Woodstock name. Woodstock 69 was a

freaking wreck, a complete danger, public, uh, public danger. It just gets looked romanticized

mainly because of that movie. But Michael Lang was interviewed on it and he kept saying, like,

we were trying all those candles ended up being the fires. That was a piece visual for, to, to,

uh, for awareness of gun violence. You think anybody on that air force base cared about gun

violence? I mean, if they had one, they'd be using it. Like, so there was no, they wanted it to be

about, uh, uh, some kind of good in the world. Like we're here to also put this mystique, this

aura of Woodstock, but it just wasn't there. Nobody was buying it. And then they got treated like

animals for three days. We got treated. I didn't know any better. I think I had the best time in

the world. Like I got home and thought, you know, with the, the, the news coverage being what it was

then gets compared to now, it was days before I understood what had actually happened. Cause we

took off as there were just, okay, there's some fires. Well, it's time to go now. This place really

sucks. We're really tired. Interesting. I wasn't there watching the place get like dis, dis,

destroyed to the ground. I was long gone. We were maybe to Virginia by that time. I don't know. I

don't remember, but so it would, the scope of it, I didn't understand for a while, but yeah, to your

point, Barry, it, they wanted it to be that the promoters, Michael Lang in particular, maybe not

some of the other guys, but he, cause he's a hippie, dippy guy, even into his, the last living days.

And they talk about that. And that was what the candlelight visual was. You idiots, what are you

doing? You're giving out a hundred thousand candles to people that you wouldn't give fresh drinking

water to for the last three days. What do you think they're going to do with it? So the, the, the, the

anger of a, of a people of an era of a generation, everything you said Barry's on right on, right on

and taco, you mentioned it too, but that weekend that, that was always easy to look back and that

was a real anger of that. Sure, sure. But that weekend was a real anger that moved away from just

male, you know, toxic male masculinity. It moved away from that and turned into,

if you were here, you'd do the same. Well, and that kind of wraps up my point. And I remember

watching those thinking how quickly, so that's 99 to 02 Bonnarooo. It goes from less angry, you

know, females being grabbed and treating horribly to not in just three years. It's pretty amazing.

It's pretty amazing. Yeah. Cause did we ever think there'd be another festival after what's stock 99?

No, you'd think there's no way they'll hold another event like that. Yeah. Who's going to ensure this

if nothing else. Yeah. Right. But a complete attitude change. And I think the, the starting of

the, of the such a niche jam band community festival was the perfect recipe to jump off of.

That was the antivirus. Yeah. Yeah. The, the, the corn guy, the, the kid rock guy, the Limp Bizkit guy,

they, they want to beat up hippies. Yeah. Like so they're, so that, that was, that was equal strokes,

genius and luck. Yeah. I would think I do remember thinking that in just three years,

that attitude change was massive. So pretty cool. But I'm afraid I'm out to cut you off. Any, any

other performances you want to, from, from that weekend Woodstock Beth, that's, that's the guy.

I don't have a good answer to this question. I Bush offspring, rage, rage against the machine,

Metallica. I remember those two up against each other. I really, really wanted to see the,

ones in the hanger, but I was just too tired and sunburned and dehydrated. So I, I saw Mickey

Hart from the dead because I was still, Woodstock was my, like I, I was in love with Woodstock,

the, the, the, the lore of the whole brand. And so anybody who would speak even badly of 99

afterwards, I was like, you don't know, man, this is my wood. Don't talk shit about my Woodstock.

But there was no alumni there. 94 that does other disaster had a lot of alumni,

Crosby, Seals, Nash, Joe Cocker, traffic. And I, I was, I was 14 then I was too young to do that

kind of stuff. But Mickey Hart from the dead was there. And I had, I made it a point to go see that

at that awesome West stage that no one talks about. And then you'll appreciate this a lot.

I would guess, Barry, I always mess up his last name, John, Eth, Eth Whistle, Ant Whistle, Ant

Whistle bass player from the who he had a little side gig in the emerging artist stage was just in

this disgustingly ugly, like military plane hanger. So like bigger than like just a plane hanger,

like it's massive and it's the only place you can find shade. So it was always crammed full.

And he had a little gig going and I was like, well, I have be damned if I'm coming to Woodstock

and I'm not going to go see the guy from the who you know, one of the best bass players ever.

Good for you. And I'll be damned if I'm not going to go see Mickey Hart. And Bruce Hornsby wasn't

quite on my radar at that point. I wish that set. I've watched it. That was great too. There was so

much great DMX DMX set was amazing. That was kind of like a classic when you go back and look at it.

That was a career defining set too. Many of them are. Cheryl Crowe was great. You know,

Cheryl Crowe is another Bonnarooo crossover. If you look at down the list, I look at so many things I

saw at Woodstock 99 and then saw again at Bonnarooo. It's just kind of a nice full circle. I mean,

and when you watch circles not over, but when you watch all these docs and you read all about the

Woodstock 99 stuff that you do know that we all think we know, which you do know most of it. I

mean, there's Counting Crows, there's Wyclef Jean, there's Dave Matthews Band, there's Alanis.

I mean, there's there was Everlast, Elvis Costello, Jewel, Creed. My God, the resurgence of Creed

makes my head spin. I saw Creed there. And annoys me. But Creed and none of Brian Seltzer Orchestra,

Willie Nelson, Al Green, James Brown. None of that ever gets discussed. Nice. And there wasn't rape

going on at those shows. Right. Well, maybe there was. We don't even know. Maybe there was.

What was going on. Fair point. But there was so much that was great about it too. And I think

that's where my defense was up for so long. And then eventually I was like, OK, I got to put my

hand up. I can't fight this one. Yeah. Yeah. It was one of the best experiences of my life. I mean,

it led me into all the other things that I've done since. All I wanted to do was to go off on my own.

I've heard from other people. I didn't go. See, I went to go even. I mean, I was the oldest 19

year old ever. Like, I'm not much different now than then. I wanted to see great music. And that

was it. Yeah. And me too. Party. I mean, that's my thing too. Yeah. I think I was 20 or 21. Yeah.

And party. But not destroy stuff. Like that was never like that was never part of it. It was.

Go see C.C. DeVille from Poison. He had a side band going on at the at the merging artist stage.

And I didn't particularly go to see that. But while we were there, like, huh, guy from Poison.

How cool is this? That's the other thing. That's another. If you go back to the reasons I go back,

it's because you can talk to people about these obscure music things and people. You will say

that I got to see C.C. DeVille from Poison. People be like, oh, that's awesome. Not like,

whatever. You know, you don't get to do that in your normal life when you're around people

who are super into music and you can say, oh, this person played with this person and I saw them here

and tell this wild ass. I'm just trying to get shade because I'm this close to overheating and

I need medical attention. And then I look up C.C. DeVille from the stepmothers.

My new band, the stepmothers. The stepmothers. This is great. And then I passed out.

It's going to be around people, people who think that's cool,

like other people who understand that that's cool. Yeah, no, like 100 percent. And that's

that's the Bonnarooo community and the the festival aura of community is like, yeah, tell me about

2007. Yeah, right. Right. What was your favorite show in 2007? Right. It's really fun.

What are the shows that you've loved over the years?

Both as a photographer and not because I've done it both ways. I've done it. Carrying that

that camera around is fun. It gets you into places that no one else gets to. But it's a lot of work.

And you only get a lot of weight. It's a lot of heavy. It's so it's good and bad. So yeah,

what are what are your favorite moments, both as a photographer and then also just as a fan?

And I guess the third thing is I can't tell you how many times I was at a show that I

wished I'd had my camera. Mm hmm. Always. And then the ones that I'm glad I didn't have. So

that's a lot. But what are your favorites? Let's see for for shooting. I love shooting

chaos like gore. That's that's definitely my thing as a photographer. I shot idols too. I wish I had

been able to be there for more. I had to run over to idols from Melanie Martinez, which

it was what it was. Some of the bands you think you're going to get great photo access to,

you don't. And then that's disappointing. That was the case. Like with Chapel Rowan,

we didn't get in there. Post Malone is always awesome to shoot because he's very generous

with photographers. He actually comes around to each of us, looks at us, points at us,

make sure that we all get our shots. So really appreciate that. Carly Rae,

Carly Rae Jepsen was fun to shoot this time. She also posed a lot and came out on the speakers and

pointed and all that stuff. So as far as bands that I really like, I'm just looking at this year.

I mean, Rushine Murphy, I was really excited to see and she was also great to shoot. She's I mean,

David Bruce was in there with me. It was late night after gore. But she was she's great. Every

pose is amazing. Every shot is amazing with her. I also shot Gregory Allen Isikoff. And that is a

band I love Gregory Allen Isikoff. My friend plays in his band. He plays guitar in his band.

Not sorry, Greg, not my favorite to shoot because the lighting is really dark in the beginning.

So when you shoot them on tour, they actually let you do the encore where they all come in the front

and there's really nice yellow light on them and you can get the good shots. But you couldn't do

that at Bonnarooo. So some of those bands that I really like to listen to are not as much fun.

They just don't get the shots because they don't move around on stage as much.

Trying to think about other. So I'm as it's getting to the point with Bonnarooo where sometimes I'll

skip bands that I really like. I mean, not ones where I have friends playing with them, but bands

I really like because I know the shots aren't going to be as good. Wait, Beth, real quick. What

year did you start doing, officially start doing photo shooting for the festival? Because we know

how long you've been going as just a fan patron. What year did you start doing that?

I want to say 2016 might be the first year that they got me in to do it. Yeah. Yeah. It's been a

while. It's 16, 17 maybe somewhere around there. So I've seen that different side of it since I've

been doing that. But yeah, I mean, give me a rapper. Like I love shooting J Cole, even though

he didn't have any production or anything behind him just because the way he moves around and

expresses himself. Metal bands, rappers, KG Elephant, anything where they're they're doing

stuff. Yeah. Remember Macklemore like flying through the air. I got to shoot him. He was

jumping from speaker to speaker. It's fun. But you get to see a different side. It's different than

the shows you like. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Some of my favorite shows have been, I mean, you know,

Les Claypool, all the stuff in the beginning. It was a very different culture in the beginning.

And I love all those bands too. Like all the Les Claypool adjacent hippie bands. Well, and

Les Claypool, I'm imagining would let the access be wide open. I mean, that guy would almost let

the whole crowd to come up on stage and take pictures. I'm sure that was pre me shooting,

unfortunately, so I never got to do it. He hasn't been around in a while. For those that weren't a

Primus singer and Bucket, Bernie Brains, all those bands. What was it with Trey? Oyster Head,

all that stuff. Claypool was there every year for the first five, six, seven years. And you just find

them walking around like, Hey, Les, what's going on, man? And you go, Hey, how you doing, man?

Like all it was so cool. But I haven't been really in that ethos in a while. Maybe 2020.

Jack White. Were you there for Jack White? You remember that? I didn't. I wasn't shooting,

but I was there. So I did. The only reason I bring it up is because we only get the blue. Yes. We get

to shoot three songs and the entire thing was completely blue and he had his back to us the

entire time. And I remember walking out with the big, the guys from like Rolling Stone or whatever.

And I said to one of them, I said, I felt like we just got a big fat finger and you know, and he's

like, I just take pictures. I'm like, yeah, that was a big fuck you is what that was. Whatever

Rolling Stone guy. Yeah. That was an annoying blueness. Thank you. Like, why is this this way

the whole time? I'm taking pictures of this nothing. And I just mean from an attendee watching the show

and that was Blunderbuss was that record that came out that year with the blue cover and the blue,

everything else. And it's an awesome album. Loved it. Loved it. Loved it. And I was like,

this is the most annoying thing to look at the whole time. It never changes. I'm glad to hear

you say that because I never changed. I took it personal that and the other thing I remember is

the my morning jacket, maybe nine now been later. No, it'd been 16 or whatever. Circuital. They

opened with this bass note and I was standing next to another guy and we were leaning against the

speaker column and they hit that bass note. It was just as deep, deep, deep. And he, the guy looked

at me and said, I think I just wet myself. He hit the brown. Yeah. Anyway, yeah. Inside baseball

was like that last year too. It was all dark and then some of the best shots because Sylvanessa

was also great on stage and moves around and all that. But I mean, some of those photographers

are so good. I learned so much from all the photographers. They, and I'll look at something

like that where it's just blue and I know all I'd have to do is desaturate it and turn it black and

white and sharpen it up. That's all I could do with something like that. And they get the most

amazing things where you get the atmosphere of it and it's a beautiful color. They're the pros.

I'm always learning, you know, that thank you so much. And I can't wait till next year. We,

we have talked about, and Beth, you were kind enough to take pictures of the three of us when

we were sitting in Russ's bus. And the thing we were talking about was that, that, that this

year's festival has been a, what did we call it? A reenergizing or a re, yeah, another word.

Renaissance. Renaissance. That's a, that's Brad's, but it was a common, it was a common theme amongst

almost anybody we ever talked to. All right. I got nothing else. It's a long show. We knew it would

be, it's a good show. Happy to have a new and better coordinated camp, mates going into, going

into, to next year. Cause the last year or two, it's been, I don't want to call it depressing on

that end. It's not depressing about Bonnarooo. There's been a little bit of just like, Oh God,

I know. Where are we? Are we committed? Are we into this or yeah. Yeah. It's like the, the,

the campsite building and the campsite creation was for, and for most people all agree with this

is a big part of it. And so that part was a little disappointing and we've got that back.

I'm recommitted. I'm totally recommitted. I'm buying new stuff. I'm thinking about new stuff.

So yeah. All right. See you guys. Let's do it again next week. Bye.