The strangest festival season in the history of festival seasons comes to a close.

So we recap Shaky Knees 2021 and ask the big question, like, what have we learned?

Plus the standout performance of festival season 2021, Aaron Frazier from Durant Jones and

the Indications.

Our guest today on the What Podcast, Barry Courter, Brad Steiner, Lord Taco.

It starts right now.

A Happy pod day to you.

What podcast?

That's Barry Courter, Brad Steiner, Lord Taco.

Welcome in guys.

I feel like it's been a minute.

How's everyone been?

Great.

Good show.

We'll talk to you guys next week.

We'll check in later.

Hey, by the way, I'm really excited that Barry, apparently you've been shopping at the same

place that Russ gets chairs for his bus.

Where did that shirt come from?

Plaid man, plaids is the new thing.

Uh huh.

Uh huh.

You guys didn't tell me this.

You didn't tell me where plaid is.

Yeah.

I mean, you look like taco's chair.

Look at this.

It's the same print.

Yeah.

Well, like I said, I always fashion forward.

You know what?

You do always say that Barry.

It's a great point.

I forgot that that's one of your go to lines.

You know, you're wearing a plaid shirt as well.

Don't you, Brian?

I know that, but it's not the same print that what tacos sitting on in his, it's not 1972

bus.

Fair enough.

Um, so a very, very busy day as we return to the podcast, uh, this week, excited with

talk a little bit of shaky knees.

Um, I've got a topic that I want to dive into a little bit later on in the show that I have

not even broached with you guys yet.

So we'll get to that here in a second.

But uh, the big news today is that we have yet another artist for me to dork out on.

I get to totally geek out yet again.

I feel like this whole season, Barry has just been one big geek fest for me.

Yeah.

Are we going to do, uh, we're going to do that as part of this same show.

We're going to make this two shows.

No, I think it, well, I mean, I think it, I think it's, I hope to do it this week.

Okay.

I don't want to tease people as well.

Oh yeah.

No, I'm excited too.

And, um, I am worried about you though.

Cause you're going to be ugly.

You're going to be gross because you did it already without even talking to him.

What do you mean?

I mean, you've already gone on him.

How much you love this guy.

I do.

I know it's going to be looking the screen.

I know it's, uh, he is great.

He's, he's not just great, but he's so dreamy.

Oh, so dreamy.

Here we go.

Our, uh, guest today, Aaron Frazier from Durant Jones and the indications.

If you've been paying attention to the other shows in the last couple of weeks, when I,

um, I mean, I, I've been a fan of Durant Jones and the indications for a minute.

And when Aaron Frazier put out his solo album that was produced by Dan Arbok, I really caught

attention to him.

And then I just sort of, I just fell hard and fast over that album.

And then the live show at ACL was the best show I've seen literally all year.

And, um, to, to be able to like circle back and talk to him afterwards is really exciting.

And hopefully we'll have Durant Jones on in another show coming up in the, um, in the

coming weeks.

But, you know, I want to sort of start, if you don't mind with some of the things that

have happened in the past couple of weeks that we've missed, one of which being shaky

needs.

So, um, kind of surprised shaky knees actually happened, but it's a C three festivals.

So you know, C three has been able to navigate these waters a lot easier than everybody else.

Taco, uh, you went there.

Did you go?

Did you know I did not, you know, why I went, you know, why I didn't go taco.

Why didn't he go?

It was further than 10 minutes from his house.

Partly true.

It was actually was outside of that 60 mile radius.

He's got that.

I didn't, I didn't see Barry's couch there.

Yeah.

Manchester.

That's his shirt.

Manchester is my limit.

I, uh, I really do not.

I mean, Barry, what is the last vacation you've taken that didn't include like going to see

a family member?

Like when's the one time Barry has gone on vacation somewhere?

I was going to say that's actually part of why I didn't go is because I went on vacation

to see a family member.

Uh, when is, I couldn't tell you.

Usually you go on vacation to get away from family members.

Not in my house.

Yeah.

So you do take one trip a year to the beach.

But other than that, where is like Barry's big trip to Paris or, you know, California

or like, where's, where's that trip?

When's the last time you did something like that?

That is a great question.

Uh, it's been 15 years.

Paris, Paris would be great for Barry.

He's so fashion forward.

This would be good.

Yeah, I could, can I wear this over there?

Yeah, you put it right in.

Yeah, you should know too that I'm, I've matched sweat pants with this on Psalm too.

So can we see them?

No, no, why not?

Cause it's terrible.

Please.

I'm begging you.

I'm begging you.

This is the one and only time you're going to hear me say the words.

I want to see your pants.

I don't think so.

Show your pants.

Show your pants.

I'm not going to do it, but anyway, that's a great question.

Now I haven't been on a vacation in, that's it.

That's embarrassing.

I know it's really tough to hear.

Yeah.

You have it.

I don't even have the last time you went to Atlanta or Nashville.

No, no.

And it's, it has a lot to do with, I mean, Barry, the kids moved out 15 years ago.

This was the time you're supposed to go do things.

Well, there's a lot, there's, there's reasons for it.

One, my wife works a lot and she doesn't like to travel.

She won't get on an airplane, for example.

Oh wait, I got it.

I know the last, I know the last vacation you've had.

It was with me.

Yeah, that's right.

Louisville.

We went to Louisville together.

That was, that was about it.

Yeah, man.

That was taco.

Imagine if the life you led, the only vacation you had in 15 years was with me.

That's pitiful.

Can't decide if that's a sad life or fulfilling life.

Yeah.

That's the other thing we have.

We have a good time here.

Okay.

All right.

The palatial Barry Courter estate.

All right.

Let's, let's go through a shaky knees.

I feel like a taco.

You went to every show at shaking knees.

I went to a lot of shows.

Did you literally see every band that was on the bill?

No, but I mean, I got pretty close.

I got a list.

Let's see.

I hit one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 20 shows.

Wow.

That's got to be more than half.

That is a pack.

I mean, for a festival that's only got three days and you know, they're only running from

like three to 10 p.m. anyway.

Yeah, that is a big, big festival.

You did a lot, taco.

I give you a lot of credit on that.

You won't see 20 bands at Bonnaroo.

No, I was just thinking that's two years for you and me, Brad.

So give me, give me, give me some highlights.

Who did you like the most?

I think the biggest highlight for me was probably garbage.

What?

Yeah, yeah.

Really?

It was fantastic.

Yeah.

Or or garage, as Kelsey kept calling him.

I was like, no, it's garbage, not garage.

Garage.

He must be 25.

Yeah.

You must have no idea who that.

So I bet you had no idea.

Did you know any of the songs?

I mean, this is a no, not one clue what this was.

Yeah.

Wow.

Was it your intention to see all 20 or did it just work out that way?

Just worked out that way.

There was really, you know, not a whole lot else to do there.

You know, it's not like Bonnaroo where there's events and tents.

You're there.

You know, when you're there.

So I was there.

I can't wait for for T-shirt number two from the what podcast and literally just in the

front of it says you're there.

You're there.

You're there.

You're there, you're there, you're there, you're there.

So Garbage, big highlight.

That's surprising, you know, because they're they're one of those bands that, you know,

I will say every now and then Shakin' Ease does seem to pluck a band that's not on anyone

else's radar.

And they did that.

I mean, I don't know another festival that Garbage was even part of.

And frankly, I don't even know Garbage was doing shows anymore.

Well, they said this was like, I don't know, the first show they've done in the States

in years.

I mean, they really haven't been doing shows.

So how they got to Shakin' Ease, I have no idea.

Yeah, that's a strange one.

Imagine the cost that, you know, put the festival back.

I'd love to know how much they paid for for Garbage.

That's a that's an interesting one.

Who else like?

Run the Jules, Run the Jules were good.

It took me a couple of songs to get sold on this because I've never really explored Run

the Jules that much.

But like literally everybody's told me that you got to see the show, you got to see the

show.

You know, it finally clicked and I was like, OK.

And I think being in Atlanta, where Killer Mike is from, I mean, he was just.

Yeah, that's a great time.

I mean, that's that's really the best place to see Run the Jules.

I think it's in Atlanta.

Honestly, I think that's the best place to see any band is their hometown.

I've seen Spoon two dozen times in my life.

It's never been better than it was at ACL.

You know, the Black Pumas show.

How many times I saw him in a year.

The show is that he was at Austin.

You know, I I think it the hometown thing just always seems to work that Alabama Shakes

always play better when she's in Nashville for some odd reason.

Yeah, that morning jacket show in Louisville, the one you just referred to.

Is that where he's from?

Yeah, that's where they're from.

The band, the whole band.

By the way, side note, I've got an opportunity to see my morning jacket on Halloween and

I'm passing up.

Barry, do you want to come down?

I can get you in.

Killin me.

You want to if you want to go to have a little vacation.

That would be the one.

That's how you'll get him in.

I mean, I want my morning jacket.

At the I actually don't know.

I don't know.

I just don't know.

It's not a huge.

It's not the the I don't.

I really know.

It's not the stadium.

I don't know off the top of my head.

I know.

I know widespread panic is in town doing three nights this weekend to somewhere.

I just I don't I don't remember.

But yeah, I love the run the jewels pick mainly because they're another one that I don't just

sit around listening to.

I go deep and heavy when the album comes out and I feel like that's all I listen to for

about a week and then I don't really ever pick it back up.

Yeah.

Weirdly enough.

But yet that live show always hits.

It always is so big.

It was huge.

And last song he brought his kids out on stage.

It was just it was pretty cool.

Yeah.

Pretty cool.

It's always a little touch.

Like Killer Mike's always got something up his sleeve with every show that he hasn't.

I mean, I got to this point where like I love Run the Jewels so much.

I've got these lapel pins and I had to stop wearing, especially like during like the really

tough stuff like, you know, the George Floyd things.

I didn't really want to walk around with a hand pointed like a gun on my lapel.

You know, I felt very awkward about that, but it's really one of my favorite possessions.

This is my run the jewels lapel.

I love them that much.

All right.

Who else?

Food fighters, of course, were flawless.

I mean, they put on just fantastic show.

How long was it?

It was the longest one.

They started at 845 and went to 11.

So that's all right.

I mean, tame.

That's very tame for them.

Well, you know, I think they wanted to play more.

They couldn't do an encore.

They ran out of time.

Yeah, doesn't have to play right up until 11.

And then they were like, you got to get out.

Like, I mean, the whole the whole park shuts down.

You have to leave like immediately.

So there's no sticking around waiting for an encore.

You're getting pushed out.

I don't find the facilities in the space of shaking knees to be the best.

It's just because it's surrounded by a neighborhood, there's really nowhere to go.

Right.

You know, there's there's you're surrounded by houses, those houses.

If you do have an Airbnb in the neighborhood, it's going to cost you three, four hundred

dollars a night.

It might as well be at Coachella.

And then the other thing, too, is good luck getting an Uber out of there.

There's just thousands and thousands of kids just sitting there waiting on the corner

for exactly what you're looking for.

What was your plan to get out of the venue?

Surprisingly, we got an Uber quickly.

Stop it.

No way.

Four minutes.

Yeah.

I don't know how.

I didn't expect that.

I thought we're going to be, you know, standing here for an hour waiting on.

But no, it said, OK, we'll pick you up.

Really?

How far away were you staying from the venue?

About 45 minutes.

Oh, so you couldn't bird it.

No, no, no.

Getting there.

Now we were able to ride the train.

We stay with some friends, some family friends.

They've got a house like in Sandy Springs ish.

They dropped us off at the train station.

We rode the train in, walked about 15 minutes and we're there.

So really getting in and out.

How about that?

So you are now the second person in my life, only the second person I've ever heard take

that train.

It was fantastic.

Yeah.

My brother always said the same thing.

My brother always said that the secret of that city is that train and nobody takes it.

Actually, the last time I was there, I took the train.

We took the train in from Alpharetta.

Barry, that was a horse and buggy.

Yeah, I know.

It was a while ago.

But yeah, the train was great.

Unfortunately, I don't think the train runs too late at night.

So by the time the festival was over, we had to Uber back.

And that was kind of a long Uber.

Yeah.

But, you know, yeah, train worked out.

And that was part of the problem was like they kick you out at 11.

And what does everybody do right at the end of the last song?

You got to go to the bathroom, right, before you leave.

So like people are queuing up in these long lines and they're trying to close the bathrooms

being like, you know, these are closed.

And I mean, people are getting mad.

You can't mess with people's bladders like that.

You know, people were like going behind the bath, the bathrooms and like peeing in the

woods and like just, I mean, I thought the fight was going to break up.

I live in New Orleans.

Everything smells like piss.

Yeah.

I mean, I don't really see anything wrong with paint on the side of the road.

Nice.

Let me go through some of these others.

What did you think of?

Would you think of a new best friend, Isaac and Modest Mouse?

How's the Modest Mouse was great.

That was a great show.

Yeah, I feel like they they have hit some sort of of.

They're in the pocket of their career right now.

I don't think they've ever sounded better.

I really don't.

They sounded really great.

Did I tell you guys my Isaac Brock story?

Did I tell this the last show?

He has the for some odd reason.

Isaac must have taken a liking to a brad guy.

We we talked for like an hour and a half before the show.

He tells me to come back after the show.

We spent another hour after that talking.

He calls me the next morning and he just calls.

He's like, hey, Brad, just call and say hey.

I'm like, hey, Isaac, what you doing?

He's like, I'm in Orlando.

I'm thinking about going to a magic store.

I'm like, why?

OK, that sounds great.

Why are you going to a magic store?

Isaac, he said, well, there's this card trick that I really want to buy.

I saw it last time I was here and you can control a card from across the room.

And I've been thinking about that every day since.

So it's like rocking my magic store.

I fell in love.

I feel absolutely in love with it.

This is what goes through his mind every day.

I mean, if I got to call Brad and tell him to, please call me.

Next time, Barry goes to a magic store.

And the other one that I'm interested in is the strokes.

Hmm.

Yeah, I'm not sure how I feel about that stroke show.

I'm sure you've seen the strokes.

I have not.

Really?

Well, this is my first time.

And first of all, they were 15 minutes late, which is very unusual because every show started

on time.

That's early for the strokes.

Well, that's what I've heard.

Julian seemed wasted or out of his mind or whatever.

He just wasn't coherent.

They'd start playing a song.

He would like, stop, stop, stop.

And he'd say something like, I don't remember the lyrics.

Oh, really?

It was so strange.

Oh, man.

And at one point they all walked off.

There was like 20 minutes left and they just walked off.

We're like, what is going on?

And then they come back and they pick up and they finished playing.

Yeah.

It was very strange.

And lots of comments that I read on Reddit and Twitter, people were pissed off about

that show.

But about half of the other people were like, no, that's just their thing.

That's just what they do.

Well, it is.

But I mean, infighting is sort of their thing, too.

That's fascinating.

The reason I tried to point out the strokes is because from everything that I know, they've

got a new album coming.

And not only do they have a new album coming, but I think you could put every dollar you

have on them being a boderoo next year.

Everything is setting up for them to be doing most festivals next year.

So if they haven't figured it out for a Shaky Knees show off cycle, I don't know how that's

going to go.

They try to do a whole nother tour with, I know they've got new management.

So maybe it's just like an off time and they'll pull it together by the time they get back

time, a new cycle starts.

But I think that if you were to put smart money down, I think the strokes is almost

a lock for Bonnaroo.

There you go.

And the band themselves were playing extremely well.

I mean, everybody was on point.

It was just Julian.

And the band seemed like physically upset that he just couldn't keep it together.

Like they're all trying to play this show and he's just whatever.

So interesting.

I mean, I don't think that that take is unlike many takes that you hear about stroke shows.

It really is a coin flip.

Yeah.

I was curious if that's like par for the course, because some people were saying, oh yeah,

that's just the way it goes.

I don't know, man.

Yeah, that doesn't last long.

No it does not.

But Barry, it's lasted for almost 20 years.

Yeah, fair enough.

I mean, when did Last Night come out?

Yeah, exactly.

I mean, we're like 15 plus years on the strokes here.

I mean, I heard all the stroke songs that I wanted to hear, expected to hear.

Nothing new?

No, nothing really new.

The other one that I was kind of like mad on was Alice Cooper.

What?

Really?

I know.

Well, I mean, you weren't there with us at the Bonnaroo show, were you?

No.

OK.

That was the year before you, wasn't it, Barry?

Yeah, I think so.

Yeah, that was great.

I've seen him.

I saw him here at the auditorium.

It was terrific.

It's campy and silly.

Yeah, it's everything you want.

It is.

And it was...

The band is...

Go ahead, I'm sorry.

The band was on point.

It was a technically good show.

I mean, he was doing everything he was supposed to, but it just felt like, you know, he's

been doing this show for...

It's goofy, but he's been doing this for what, 30, 40 years?

He comes out.

There's no banter.

There's no talking to the audience.

There's no improvisation.

He's just like, they're just doing the songs and then that's it.

It was just...

Yeah, the improv comes from the guitar players.

Yeah, and he had some very good guitar players on there, including a female guitar player.

Nina Strauss, yeah, she was amazing.

Yeah, that was all amazing, but it was just, I don't know, after hearing Killer Mike and

LP, like, back and forth in between songs, it was like, this is...

I felt like this is more what you're here for to see at a festival.

So this isn't a side and this will matter to no one that's listening other than me and

Taco, but the person that you went with, did she care about any of these things?

No.

OK.

In fact...

Did she stick around with you through this or did she go find some sort of dude to have

attention, to get attention from?

She got attention from a dude.

OK, yeah.

And we'll get to that.

We'll talk about what happened Friday night, too.

Oh, God.

Well, let's hear it.

I can't wait.

The Alice Cooper Show, I don't think I saw anyone under 40.

You know, I don't think Alice Cooper is on anyone's radar except, like, people our age.

Barry.

There's no question.

The show that we saw at the auditorium...

Wait a second.

I take very big...

I feel like I've been attacked.

Benny.

You're 40.

I am not Barry's age.

We're the same age.

I am not Barry's age.

I said our age.

Well, don't include Barry on that.

I said our age and up.

OK.

Now I'm offended.

But the audience that saw Alice at the auditorium here looked very much like 1700 comic book

shop owners.

There's no question about it.

Exactly.

Vintage t-shirts.

It felt like I was at exit 111 again.

Comic book store owners.

I have a random question.

Did you happen to see all them witches?

I did.

Did you like them?

Yes.

That was one I definitely didn't want to miss.

And that was really my only conflict because all them witches was opposite Phoebe Bridgers.

And I really want to see Phoebe Bridgers.

But all them witches was my Bonnaroo 19 Thursday night was one of my Thursday night picks that

I wanted to see.

And that's the night that I eat the cookie.

Gotcha.

You know what I'm talking about.

Yeah.

And you don't do well with that upset tummy.

You don't do well with sweets.

I've got too many chocolate chips.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Can't handle sugar.

No, it really upset me.

So I had to lay down for nine hours.

And yeah, it's sort of like honor your first year.

Weird how you just took a day off.

I think that's what he's talking about.

Yeah.

So all the witches was I definitely had to see them live in color hives.

Those were all great.

The hives.

How I forgot all about the hives.

I didn't even know they were still around.

I didn't say for all of it.

No, we're live in color.

But those are both great shows.

I mean, I'm kind of I didn't tell you guys this story about ACL.

But one of the things I'm more disappointed in myself with was I left Phoebe Bridgers

early, mainly because it just the crowd was they were just so young and the girls were

just everywhere.

And I felt like I was watching Billie Eilish again.

And although I could see something good was happening and I knew it was I knew it sounded

good.

I knew there was a moment surrounding it.

I left because a the crowd just wasn't working for me.

And then B, you know, that first half an hour is really sleepy.

So I left to go see a band that I think I'm good for never seeing ever again.

I love, love, love future islands.

But I don't need to see him fake rip off his own face anymore.

He runs the same bit every time he's pounding on his chest.

He's punching himself in the face.

He's ripping his invisible face off.

You know, he's collapsing to the ground.

It's a great show if you've never seen it.

I love everything about them.

But man, if you've seen it once and I've seen it six times and I don't know why I decided

to leave Phoebe Bridgers to go see that again.

And I felt so bad about it.

I should have told you before the shaky knees.

I should have told you to not miss Phoebe Bridgers, because if I'm not mistaken, there's

somebody that she brought out at the end of that show at ACL that had everybody talking.

And I heard it from afar and I just dipped my head and walked away because I just didn't

want to deal with my own failures.

I probably should have gone to that Phoebe Bridgers show too, but that was a tough decision.

But I went all them witches.

Yeah.

And then you got ditched.

You got all them ditches.

You got all them ditches.

So you got ditched, huh?

Who got ditched?

Me.

You.

Yeah.

And that's the story.

Oh, I thought there was a story about the partner in crime.

So Friday night, she meets up with one of her friends.

And then after the show, he's like, hey, y'all, let's go to this bar downtown.

My friends own it.

It's a great bar, great people.

Let's go check it out.

And we're like, okay.

So we leave the festival and we just start walking and walking and walking for like an

hour and a half.

And we're just walking.

And we're passing up all these bars and I'm like, that bar looks cool.

Can we just go here?

Like how much?

Turns out you already made it back to Sandy Springs.

Pretty much.

We sobered up and everything.

Yeah.

I mean, I was completely sober by the time we finished walking.

We stopped.

And we're like, how much further is this?

And he's like, I think it's just like another block up ahead.

And I pull it off and I'm like, we're getting an Uber because it still says we're like 40

minutes away.

Oh my God.

It was terrible.

I could barely walk the next day from like just constant walking.

I literally had shaky knees from all that.

Oh, he's hanging onto that for days.

But the bar was pretty good.

I got a drink.

We all got drinks.

Was it worth walking two hours?

Probably not.

Was it a PBR?

Definitely not.

Wow.

Yeah.

Oh man.

Another strike against him.

Yeah.

This was an upscale bar.

It was pretty fancy.

This is big.

This is the man walked all the way and didn't even get a PBR.

Didn't even get his PBR.

I know.

Yeah.

Stunning.

All right.

Well, anything else of note for shaky knees?

I think that's about it.

Oh, they were checking vaccine cards and your ID, but they weren't doing testing on site,

which I thought was weird.

So.

Do you want to go back?

Do I want to go back to shaking knees?

Yeah.

I don't know.

It's exhausting.

It's one of those festivals that's so lineup dependent.

Yeah.

That was my next question.

If I was waiting for him to say that.

Yeah.

I was there strictly for the lineup, not the experience.

Because honestly, it's so exhausting because every single day you have to figure out how

you're getting from where you're staying to the venue and then get home.

And it's not like Bonnaroo where you just party until you get tired and then walk to

camp and then pass out.

The only way I'm willing to do that festival again, one is if I'm going up and down and

only go for a day and I stay in Chattanooga or I get a house in the neighborhood and you

can just walk from the neighborhood.

But even then, frankly, that's no good either because don't you want to go out?

Exactly.

Yeah.

So you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

It's just in such a weird part of town where nothing else is around it.

I mean, there's a there's a mallow mushroom you can go to and that's about it.

That's about it.

So I've got other festival items, some news, some festival news to share with us here shortly

after Aaron Frazier, which by the way, somebody catch me if I call him Aaron Jones.

I have accidentally called him Aaron Jones, the running back for the Green Bay Packers,

maybe two dozen times.

I don't know why I keep doing that.

But Aaron Frazier, very excited about this next on the What Podcast.

Aaron Frazier, how are you stranger?

Doing well.

I hate to be this guy, but ever since ACL, I have done nothing but wax poetic to these

two about Aaron Frazier, Aaron Frazier, Aaron Frazier.

I'm jealous of the hair.

I'm jealous of this, the fashion.

I'm jealous of the smooth.

He's the smoothest cat in the world, Barry Courter.

I'm glad I got on this call.

Now I feel like this is great.

Hang on to that, Aaron, because it could get weird.

He's not kidding.

Well, I mean, I told you this after the show.

I mean, what was so remarkable about what you did at ACL was that you just hadn't done

it before.

You know, it was your first ever solo festival performance, right?

Yeah, yeah, it was, which is intense.

You know, it's asking a lot of my bandmates to learn all this stuff and to have it together

to do it under pressure of, you know, not just a live show, but a festival live show,

which, you know, if anybody out there has been to or played a festival, you know, changeovers

are very, very fast.

You're on a schedule.

The schedule doesn't stop for you.

It doesn't slow down just because you're like it's ready or not.

Your set is like starting.

So they killed it.

I was happy to be there.

I mean, that's fine.

I ran into Steve afterwards and it felt like he had lost about 30 pounds because it, Barry,

if you like, so Durant Jones has got, you know, the band.

And then I think Aaron, you used not just the bass player, but also the keyboardist,

Steve and maybe even guitars too from Durant Jones.

Different, different guitar player.

They both have long hair, but yeah.

And so, and so Steve, the keyboardist, he's just one of these guys that every time, you

know, they play, all you hear from the crowd is Steve.

It's really funny.

It's become like a running bit with, with these guys.

And then so I talked to him afterwards and I was like, you've played, it feels like 15

shows this weekend.

He's like, I know it was, it was a lot.

So I can't imagine like the amount of just bandwidth that that kind of stuff takes out

of you.

Yeah.

It's definitely a balance and it's one I'm excited to like, you know, continue to figure

out.

But just to have been given that space by my bandmates, you know, not just Mike and

Steve, you know, who are, are giving their time and their energy to, to this stuff as

well, but also to, to Blake and Durant to trust me and us to, to take that space and,

and dedicate that energy to my own thing and then still be able to go back to, to the band.

It's a strong collective and yeah, it's, it's cool.

Let's jump in the spirit of that.

Cause I know we just started, but it's such a good question and a good spot.

Cause Brad really did go on and on when we talked a couple of weeks ago about how impressed

he was with this show and how it happened and you going from one to the other.

And you just said it was the first time.

I mean, what was that like?

You talked about it a little bit already, but I mean, that's just not something you

wake up and it just happened.

Right?

I mean, it's a pretty intense thing and to be in that environment and all of that.

So yeah, yeah, absolutely.

I mean, there's stress obviously, but it was more emotional, you know, than I, than I thought

it would be to play these songs that, you know, every song I write is, is coming from

a, from a real place.

But the songs on the solo record are like, I think probably the most vulnerable I have,

I have gotten as a writer, it's a little closer to the bone, you know?

And so, and it's your name on it.

Yeah, absolutely.

And so to perform those songs and then to not just see people who are coming out to

like, you know, I guess like listeners, fans, well, whatever you want to call them.

Like, but also, you know, my lady was, was in the crowd and then also at the back of

the crowd were Blake and Duran were like dancing, dancing the, the blitz off.

And so it was, I just felt very held and supported by the community in that moment.

And yeah, it was special.

Yeah.

I mean, you, you know, it was a big show because Adrian from Black Pumas told me, I walked

up, I said, wow, you're coming here on it.

He's like, I only came to see Aaron.

I only came all the way down here to see Aaron.

That's, that says something, you know, to get a guy in his own house.

I'm, I'm really happy for Adrian and what he's accomplished.

You know, I mean, even before the Black Pumas, but now with the Black Pumas, like opening

up Instagram and seeing them in a stadium playing with Rolling Stones.

It's just like, that's, that's my guy, man.

Yeah, that's, that's pretty nuts.

I want to start sort of from the beginning, mainly because, you know, Duran Jones and

the indications have always been one of those bands that, you know, was on my radar, mainly

because if you, if you do any sort of this new soul stuff, you know, you, you find the

Charles Bradleys, you find the Lee Fields, you, the Sharon Jones who started it all,

you eventually get to Duran Jones and you know, it, it kept poking at me and poking

at me and poking at me until I finally just started saying, okay, let's, let's see what

this is.

I had no idea when I picked you guys up in 2018, 2019, that it was like a 10 year old

thing already.

I mean, or maybe not even 10 at that point, but you guys have been together and doing

this for a while.

And it all started from, ironically enough, I mean, I don't know if, if Barry knows this,

but Duran's from New Orleans.

I even, I talked to him about that at ACL.

He was born in New Orleans and grew up outside of Baton Rouge.

Just explain how the paths crossed and how this whole thing came together.

Yeah.

So let's see, Blake Ryan, the guitar player, and I met first day of college.

We had the same major, which is audio engineering.

It's a very small program.

It's only 15 kids per year.

So you know, you kind of become fast friends.

And we were, you know, we bonded over, the first thing we ever bonded over was hip hop,

like sample based hip hop was like donuts, really Jay Dilla's donuts.

And that's a lot of how like I found soul music for myself was filtered through samples.

A lot of Syl Johnson, I imagine.

Yeah.

I mean, a lot of, a lot of funky drummer, a lot of, you know, I don't know, Curtis Mayfield

and Del Skaher and all that.

But Durand came to Bloomington from Hillaryville, Louisiana.

After college, he went to Eastern, I think it's Eastern Louisiana.

And he went, he came to Indiana University to study classical saxophone to get a graduate

degree.

So he wasn't, you know, even there to pursue soul music.

But he was helping out as a horn coach for the student soul music ensemble called this

IU Soul Review.

Wow.

Which is a really interesting program.

There's there.

I don't think there's many like it in the country where students learn about soul music

and then perform it.

It's like, you know, it's a performance class.

This is all at Indiana University.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Really interesting place where I thought was be the hub of soul.

Yeah, the heart of soul is not Jackson five Jackson five Jackson five.

Gary.

That's true.

It's Gary.

It's Gary.

That's that's a very fair distinction.

But it's a great it has a great history as a as a as an ensemble as a class.

So anyway, so he was the horn coach and Blake was running sound because he was in the audio

program.

You have to run sound for various ensembles on campus.

So by that time, I guess we were juniors in college.

Durant was a little bit older.

Blake and I had started a rock and roll band with two other of our classmates.

And so in that soul ensemble, they were a little short on male singers that year.

And so they pulled Durant because they knew he had a little bit of like singing experience

and Blake heard him sing and was like, yo, you should come meet my friend, Aaron.

You know, we've been making rock and roll together.

But over time, we'd been talking about wanting to make stuff, you know, more hip hop soul

influence, stuff like that.

And in this band currently, you're playing drums.

Correct.

Yeah, I was playing drums and singing also.

But I was singing with my full chest voice.

Yeah.

OK.

And that's basically how it started.

We started hanging out on Sundays, we called them Soul Sundays, and we would get together

in my apartment and well, actually, there's a house because in the Midwest now I'm here

in Brooklyn in an apartment.

But we would spend 45s and like talk about, you know, it was almost like a like a reading

group or like a.

Yeah, it's like a book club.

You know, you get together and you just like you play it, drop the needle, you listen and

you just get what I loved about that was how messed up the bass sounds.

It's like way too loud and out of tune.

And I love that, you know, like, you know, the drums are super fatter.

I love how the vocal harmonies are.

And then we just like go down in the basement and mess around a jam.

And that was that was how Duran Jones and the Indication started.

It was never supposed to grow into a whole career.

We really were just hanging out.

Barry, these are these are people that I want to be best friends with because this is legitimately

the kind of conversations that I have with myself every Sunday.

I just sit there and I just pick out soul records.

And I don't know anybody else that can nerd out with me about these things.

Well, I love this whole recap because you mentioned some of the things I was thinking

about when I was listening to the music today and reading and everything.

Gil Scout, Heron, Curtis Mayfield.

And I mean this with all respect.

At one point, I thought this sounds like a group of people that are really, really good

in like band or, you know, music school.

And then have taken it to this next level.

And so, I mean, that's just, you know, we were all part of the music school.

But it's interesting, like, you know, being in an audio major, not a performance major,

we were like nerds in a different way.

I mean, yeah, I got you.

But it was sort of like, you know, what I feel like I got out of that studying audio

was how to put words to what I'm hearing.

Because like, you know, language influences like thought in this really crazy way where

like if you're unfamiliar with the term compression, you might not, you might have trouble perceiving

it.

But it can just be this invisible thing and then once you kind of understand what it is,

have a word for it, for the song kind of blinking, you know, whatever, then not only can you

describe it to somebody, but you can chase after it yourself in a songwriting context.

Oh, that is exactly.

You just described something that I fight with my engineer here at the radio station

about all the time because I have no idea what I'm saying.

But I do know what I'm hearing and I don't know how to transcribe it to another person,

especially somebody knows what they're talking about.

I one time went to this really fancy restaurant in Chicago, one of my favorite restaurants

in the world.

And the sommelier walks out and we're talking about orange wines and, you know, give me

the...

So he brings over the orange wine.

He asked me what I like and I said, you know, I just wish it was more punchy.

And this guy's eyes bugged out of his head.

He said, punchy?

Like he was so offended by this word that I had used.

Like in my world, I wanted it just to be boozier.

But in his world, he thought I wanted Kool-Aid.

Oh, punchy.

Like, oh my God, that's funny.

Yeah.

You know, but the beautiful thing about music is like, you know, and Blake and I, neither

of us are classically trained.

Doran's, you know, classically trained, but it's so much like, it's the only rule is it

has to work, right?

It doesn't matter if like the microphone is on the ground, literally on the ground, not

even on a mic stand or the vocals are way blown out.

If it sounds good, if it moves you, then that's right.

And in the same way, I think like, you know, when you're chasing after a sound, our new

record with the indications is mixed by Ben Kane, a great engineer here in Brooklyn who

has worked with D'Angelo.

He works with D'Angelo, Emily King, those kinds of people.

And he told us a story about D'Angelo describing like, hey, I want the vocals to hit like ink

when you drop ink into water.

And it's just sort of like, okay, all right, let's chase that.

Let's try to make it feel like something rather than getting too eggheady with it.

So I like, yeah.

I don't want to skip over some of the meat on the bone, but I mean, I got to imagine

knowing at least the small time that I spent with Dan Arbok, he's sort of like that too.

He's totally like that.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

So when you're in there now, I'm fast forwarding a little bit past you finding the voice that

you share with us today, but and we can come back to that.

But when you get into a room with Dan, do you have a pretty good solid idea as to what

you want to do or is Dan sort of like taking over and coloring this thing for you?

It's a really collaborative process.

I was, I didn't know what to expect, you know, because Dan is a rock star, like a global

rock star.

Like they don't make them like that anymore, you know.

And I don't think you get to that point without A, having a very clear vision and B, being

able to advocate strongly for that vision.

So like, I don't know, I was like, I don't want to get steamrolled.

I hope that's not the case.

But it wasn't, it wasn't like that at all, you know, and I think part of the reason when

we first started talking, you know, he called me directly, which is not usually how these

things work.

Normally it's like through this person goes to the label, goes to management, goes to

management, goes to the label, whatever.

It's like so roundabout.

But he just called me on the phone, you know, from, you know, Ohio number.

But did he, did he see you in a solo show?

Did he see you?

No, he, he, he heard.

Is it any wonder that he found?

Yes.

And then he also heard my gospel record that I did in 2017, the Flying Stars of Brooklyn.

Again that, you know, you talk about low-fi, the only rule that has to work is like my

guitar amp was on my toilet for that recording and it's been, you know, streamed millions

and millions of times.

That's hysterical.

But when, when, when Dan and I first started talking, the conversation quickly became like

YouTube link, YouTube link, YouTube link, YouTube link in this musical conversation

of just like, okay, here's what I'm digging on.

Oh, that reminds me of that.

That reminds me of that because all every record is in conversation with like five other

records.

Yeah.

And so when you're tapped into it and you, and you start to kind of, you can see the

matrix and you're like, oh, they're all connected.

They're like, yeah, there are genres, but like also in some ways they are really just

totally arbitrary like boundaries.

Did that, that had to help with your, I was going to ask about your internal conversation

because like you said, you don't want to get steamrolled.

Yeah.

And this is always fascinates me.

This whole producer artist, you know, how much does who contribute what and who lets

who leads and who pulls and who pushes and all that kind of stuff.

I made, you know, I made him a playlist that maybe I should share one day, but it was,

it was called Dan and Aaron make a record together maybe because we hadn't, you know,

we hadn't signed anything.

So I sent it to him and I was like, these are all in the same way that I would get together

with Blake and Durand.

It's like, that's what helped create a shared vision to where you can see the same house

before it's done being built, you know, is, is common reference points, common, you know,

recordings that we can point to.

And that way also going into it, I mean, I'm trying to learn, you know, Dan's one of the,

one of the best, like not just alive.

He's just like one of the best, you know.

And so I, what I would, what I was hoping for and what happened was just like, let's

create this common framework of recordings we both love.

And then within this, if there's a situation where it's like, Oh, I think you should do

it like this.

Then I'm like, okay, cool.

Let me trust this.

Let me learn.

Let me just see where this road takes me.

And then in moments where I was like, man, this horn melody, it's got, it's like, this

is how I'm hearing it like this.

It's like, that's what's up, Chase it.

I mean, I think that there's something like, I can't talk about Dan Arbok.

Look, I think that he's a great rock star, but he's an even better producer.

And you know, his shop, I mean, Alan is incredible over there.

I have a feeling though.

I have a feeling though.

You talked to Dan Arbok and he found your gospel album right about, right about when

he started making that a C lo out.

Did he play that for you?

So Dan has these, Dan has projects that he just, they just, there's hundreds of them

that he just has sitting around.

He's like, he finds these guys like Aaron and you know, he just dies to work with them.

He did a C lo project that is nothing but Teddy Pendergrass, like soul slash gospel

music that is incredible, absolutely incredible.

And no one will ever hear it.

I didn't, I wasn't aware that it got shelved, but I did hear a couple of cuts and it's,

it is beautiful.

It's beautiful.

And I have a feeling like that there is somewhere around there.

I have a feeling it's the same timeline.

Yeah, it very well could be.

I mean, you know, one of the things that, one of the things that Dan really encouraged

me to do was to kind of use this as an opportunity to think outside of any box that not like,

that like people have put me in, but like that I may have put myself in, you know, as

an artist to be like, oh, this is what people know me for, so this is what it has to be.

So that means that I am this.

It's like for him, I think especially it makes sense.

Like, you know, I mean, the black keys were going in since like, what, like 2000 on like

this one lane, but both Dan and Pat, I know have, they contain multitudes like any artist

does, you know, like any person does.

And so EZ, I think has become a place for him to explore all those sides of his artistic

self and then to also encourage artists, you know, like me to do the same.

How different is the finished product than what you originally thought maybe going in?

Interesting.

That's interesting.

So much of the record was written in the room, you know, with me and Dan and in the kitchen

at EZ, you know, and then one other person usually, but so my favorite times were just

us, but by the way, the same at that same table, he wrote the Lana Del Rey record, by

the way.

I didn't know he did it.

That's cool.

That kitchen has got some power to it.

Yeah, it's Vibey.

I mean, and it actually makes sense to me when I walked in there and got to know Dan

a little bit more and learned that his dad was an antiques dealer.

Still is.

And so to grow up around old weird stuff, like to grow up around Vibey stuff all the

time and somebody older than you, you know, a person in your life to kind of give you

that magic eye.

You walk in there and every surface has vibe, every surface has something, some ephemera

from some Ohio church or a kick drum from a, you know, I don't know, fire department in

the 1800s or something.

Just like weird, weird.

Bobby Woods glass eyes on the mixer.

I think that that's such a great point because you can't tell you can't you can't have taste

without seeing taste, I think.

Right.

And you know what is quality if you don't surround yourself with quality is a really

strong point.

OK, so the thing that we missed was the day that you sort of came out of your shell and

figured out you.

You talked earlier about your chest voice, which you still use to this day.

I mean, you played with it back and forth in some of your in some of the songs in the

record.

The moment where you found that signature sound, that unique, unbelievable, just I mean,

cuts glass kind of sound.

Where did where did that come from?

How did you find it?

Thank you.

You know, talking about being a nerd, I just I don't love large crowds.

I mean, I love playing to him.

You know what I'm saying?

I mean, you know, I'll play to thousands of people and it's super fun, but I don't love

being in large crowds.

I don't love like super loud music or whatever.

Anyway, so in college, at a certain point after doing the bar thing for a while, I started

just like on Friday nights for a stretch of time, I'd like stay in and try to write songs

in different genres and different styles just because I, you know, I've always loved lots

of different kinds of music.

So yeah, one night I wrote like a really simple soul song called Is It Any Wonder?

And I sang it in my chest voice and I like listened back to it and was just like, yeah,

this is not great.

I just wasn't it just didn't feel just didn't feel authentic to me for some reason.

It was just off the mark.

So I was like, but you know, Duran could do a great job with this because he can sing

anything and make it sound good.

So I brought it to Blake, our guitar player, and he's like, cool, let's let's recut this.

So we recut the instrumental.

And then I was recording scratch vocals for Duran to replace.

And we were laying I was sitting on the couch feeling, you know, especially relaxed in that

moment.

And because I was kind of laying back, I wasn't projecting from my diaphragm in my chest.

I was coming from my head voice.

And that's what came out.

Actually, the vocals on our first record, On Is It Any Wonder, are the scratch vocals.

Wow.

Replace them.

It's like, that's how we left it.

Because we listened back, drenched in reverb and delay.

And we were like, oh, this is this is something.

And for the first time in my life, I was able to hear myself back and not get that nails

on the chalkboard cognitive dissonance that happens when you hear recording yourself and

you're just like, yo, I can't I can't, you know, and it just sounded like me for the

first time.

I was like, yeah, no, I think that's what I sound like.

Do you think there was a tad bit of and I hate to put words in your mouth, but is there

a tad bit of insecurity in the chest voice?

I think I think I mean, there's there's insecurity when you put something out into the world.

It's such a vulnerable place that you're always going to feel a certain level of insecurity

in in in whatever style and however proficient you are.

But I think it's it's maybe not as much the insecure insecurity.

I think it's because it's falsetto.

It's false.

Right.

It's not your speaking voice.

So you have a little bit of mental remove from it.

So even if everybody heard my chest voice and they're like, cool, that sounds that sounds

awesome.

It's still you're like, I don't know.

It's just like I'm just like speaking in in melody.

I don't know.

It just kind of sounds like when there's that remove.

Yeah, I'm sorry.

Is it almost like singing in character?

Maybe so.

Now it doesn't feel like it.

But maybe there was a little bit of remove that helped me access a different part of

of myself creatively, I think in the same way that people write with pseudonyms.

I was just about to say, I mean, it's kind of ironic that that's sort of a safety valve.

I hate to use the term safety, but while the album is called Introducing Aaron Frazier,

it could have been frazz.

You could have come up with some sort of thing, but you were incredibly vulnerable in this

entire process.

And I actually think the falsetto thing is not necessarily a cover.

I feel like it's even more vulnerable.

You know, I feel like it's even deeper inside of you than than, you know, just what you

would describe as a chest voice.

No.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, in some ways, I think that's right.

Like, you know, some of the most vulnerable, tender performances have come from falsetto

voices.

You know, we talked about Curtis Mayfield and Smokey Robinson, but also a more contemporary

example, not in soul music at all, is like the first Bon Iver record.

Oh, you know what?

Someone might call me out on that.

I'm not sure it's the first one, but for Emma.

I'll call it the breakout.

I think maybe there's some, you know, I know he was doing stuff before that.

But in that moment, you can tell, like, damn, this guy is going through it.

Yeah.

You know, and he's hold up.

He's hold up in a cabin.

You know?

Yeah.

I hear you.

I think you're exactly right.

I hear you there, which is, you know, that's why I pointed out the vulnerability part.

So you find this voice, you find the ability to write and you get in touch with Dan and

all while you're still with Duran Jones.

All right.

My final thing here, and I'll stop nerding out with you here in a second, but my final

thing is when you guys, when Duran and you are playing back and forth, if you have never

seen the show, it's a really brilliant mix of going back and forth.

Right.

And Duran is from all accounts that I have both witnessed and read about you guys.

This is truly a partnership in a way that goes back and forth.

And I just got to imagine you guys are just scratching the surface with that kind of stuff.

I think with you is a perfect blend of where I see or at least hear Duran Jones and indications

go.

Am I wrong about that?

No, I feel that on with you.

It does feel like we've traded off verses, but I love like in hip hop, you know, there

are great duos, you know, Jadakiss and Styles P or Fat Joe and Big Pun, or you listen to

actually probably like the gold standard is Brooklyn's finest, Jay-Z and Biggie.

I mean the track Brooklyn's Finest, Jay-Z and Biggie Smalls off Reasonable Doubt.

They're like finishing each other's lines.

They're going back and forth.

It's thrilling to listen to still after all these years, I just got like goosebumps just

thinking about it because it's like, it's amazing.

And so I'm excited to continue to explore that.

And to your first point, Durand is such a generous front person in that way because,

you know, look when Isn't Any Wonder as a song like, you know, popped off and became,

you know, one of the fan favorites on that record, it would have made a lot of sense

if Durand was like, that's really cool.

Like chase that, but like I'm the singer here.

I'll take it from here, kid.

Yeah, but it was never like that.

My name's on the door.

Exactly.

But, you know, he's created so much space for me in this band and, you know, in this

career that, you know, my goal is to find the places where I can also create that same

space for him.

Well, that's my next question then not to put you on the spot in that line, but what

do you want to do now that you've got this solo album?

Or is it a separate, completely separate thing?

Where do you see it going?

I mean, if I want to answer it for him, I mean, I think I think Aaron Frazier turns

into Jack Antloff.

I see.

I see Jack.

I see Aaron Frazier producing a Taylor Swift one day.

No, I think I think everything that you're describing from the moment that you walked

into Indiana University to the lessons that you learned through Durand and with Dan, I

it feels like there is a producing megastar that's, you know, scratching the surface here.

Thank you.

I mean, yeah, I that is a goal of mine is to is to work with other artists and to write

with other artists.

I'm headed out to L.A. actually next Monday till the end of the year to post up and just

like just like write, you know, with whoever's around, whoever wants to write, let's go,

you know.

And yeah, I think, you know, the way I see this band, I like to think about it like the

Marvel Cinematic Universe, like the Avengers, because it's like, you know, you have these

main storylines and then you can it's so fun as a fan because you get to pick your favorite

and then you follow them off into their little side stories, you know, or epic side stories.

And they have their own hosts of collaborators and then there are these crossover moments

and then you go back to the main storyline.

You know, I told I told Blake, you know, our next record should just be called Durand Jones

and the Indications, colon infinity war.

Just go full of vengeance.

No, I mean, that's how I that's my hope for this band is to blossom into the collective

that I think it has always been.

And so to support everybody in exploring, exploring their own their own creative side,

because then it's also easier to come back to collaboration.

And the stakes are a little lower because you're not like, oh, this is my one place

to get my song exactly the way I want it.

And if it doesn't turn out that way or it's not on the record, it's a calamity.

You know, it's not like that.

It's like I have a valve.

I have an outlet for stuff that might not be right that I still stand behind.

That's a strong point.

And the other the thing, too, that I think, you know, you see a band like Durand Jones,

the indications and you would automatically think, oh, you know, there might be a riff

here.

But man, Barry, let me tell you, I was lucky enough to be standing next to Aaron when he

came off the stage and Durand walked up to because I walked with Durand to the backstage

area and Durand walked up to him and the love, the hug and the that he let out for his guy

was like, I got chills.

I got chills about it because that is a major, major deal.

And it just it just goes to show you, you know, how quality human beings that you have

in front of you.

I love the superhero analogy.

I hadn't really ever thought of it that way because, you know, you know, if one of those

guys saves the universe, the other ones, they aren't jealous.

You know, they're not.

They're not.

They're not.

That's so true, man.

That's so true.

You don't see him pout because, you know, the Hulk saved the universe.

Wolverine's really pissed, though, sometimes.

I think that he's gets too much attention.

That's true.

Yeah.

Maybe you catch some, you know, some of us, you know, before coffee or early in the morning,

you get the Wolverine, but generally you get, you know, everybody.

I just imagine Captain America therapy.

I just don't appreciate how.

Yeah.

The Hulk got more lines than I did.

Aaron, I not only can I wait to have Durand on the show now, but I can't wait to see you

again.

I'm I maybe I'll run into you in L.A. I'll be there December 14th.

So I can't wait for another Aaron Frazier show.

I can't wait for another Durand Jones show.

It got in my blood the same way.

I'm very the first time I saw Alabama Shakes, the very first time I saw him at Bonnaroo.

That was when it got in my blood.

And I just I couldn't stop after that.

I think that you guys are incredible.

I think that your Marvel analogy is spot on.

The band's great.

Your solo stuff's great.

And I just I can't I can't say enough about you guys.

I think you're incredible.

Thank you so much.

It's really fun to see again.

It's fun to talk to you.

Yeah.

Yeah, we'll see.

Thank you so much.

Thank you, buddy.

Thank you.

Aaron Frazier on the What Podcast.

Barry Courter, Lord Taco, Brad Steiner.

There was some more.

We'll talk about Aaron Frazier here in a second.

But there was some more festival news that I wanted to get to.

I don't know if you guys saw the bigger breaking news that happened, I think, just yesterday.

But I mean, I want to get this right, because it's massive.

So let me read you the headline that I saw.

This is nuts, guys.

One of the largest mariachi music festivals in the U.S. returning to San Antonio, the

Mariachi Vargas extravaganza taking place at Lila Cockrell Theatre in December.

Who's going with me?

Oh, man, I can't wait.

Come on.

Mariachi festival.

I know I couldn't get tickets.

It was sold out.

OK, Barry, you stick with me, buddy.

I'll get you some tickets.

I need the VIP.

Meet and greets, soundcheck party access.

It's all with you, buddy.

I promise.

I want one of them hats.

Yeah.

Well, the real news was that if you noticed Coachella is starting to dip a toe into the

tees pool, it's just a little crumb here and there.

Every few seems like days now Coachella is wetting our palate.

I fully anticipate them announcing tickets going on sale.

It feels like any day now.

And then, of course, if I'm not mistaken, weren't we getting lineups from them in years

past or on Thanksgiving for Black Friday?

Am I wrong about that?

It was close.

It was close because there were a lot of festivals trying to sell.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Buy your stocking stuff or picket type of things.

Black Friday, a few of those, a lot of stocking stuffers for sure.

Which for festivals, by the way, Bonnaroo too.

Bonnaroo always announced on sale before.

Yeah.

Let me ask you, let me ask you both along those lines.

I was thinking about it and maybe I'm wrong.

The timing is still not right, but it just seemed like we've spent 18 months talking

about what might happen, what could happen, what is happening.

Have you guys spent any time sort of analyzing what did happen?

Does it does now feel like we can look back and put a put a ribbon on festival seasons,

2020 and 2021?

Well, I put my ribbon in the sky.

Okay.

I don't yet.

Okay.

You know what I mean?

Does it feel like we know anything yet or no, we're still coming out of it?

I don't really know what there is to know.

Right.

Do we know anything different than we had already anticipated?

I'm trying to mind my brain and see if there's something else that I might have missed.

That's why I'm asking you especially.

You've been to several, Taka has been to a couple, but Brad, you also, we make fun of

you, but you have these dinners with industry people.

I just wondered if there are any insights or any things that we haven't talked about

that feels like, or is it maybe not?

I mean, if it's not, that's the right, then that's a fine answer.

I just feel like-

Well, I think C3 were really the only ones that were willing to put themselves out there

and stick with the festivals that they had, even if it felt tumultuous getting there.

I don't think that at any moment, aside from a couple of times at Lollapalooza, at any

moment where I really thought that people were too invested in a COVID problem.

Maybe I said that a little sloppy.

It didn't feel as though COVID was a worry to the people who had walked into the grounds

because at that point they were leaving that outside.

Does that make sense?

You wait and wait and wait for these moments and then you're just going to beat yourself

up worrying about COVID the entire time?

For instance, we had our first parade in New Orleans this past weekend.

It was the Halloween crew of Boo Parade.

Normally a lighter attended parade, it's not a Mardi Gras parade.

It's mostly for kids and families, but this was as if it was Mardi Gras.

People's appetite was so... I mean, they were dying for some sort of, it feels like

New Orleans again.

Once we got in it, I don't think I even thought about COVID this past weekend.

Even though I was probably a little bit more... I think COVID was a little bit more on

my mind during the festivals that I went to, you still lose yourself in these moments where

it doesn't really even occur to you.

It feels normal again.

You start looking around and you see some of the ones that were successful.

I think that we could have probably done more.

You look back and yes, it's good the precautions that were taken and it's good that people

didn't die and people were safe and we remained relatively healthy and the numbers are going

down.

But it did feel like the ones that did go forward handled it as best as you could have

ever imagined.

Well, and I think that's part of what made me think of it.

Reading the Shakin' Ease reviews earlier today, a lot of them are, okay, they held the event

in a different time of year and now they're ready to do it how they used to.

I guess that's what I'm thinking.

It feels like we've hit a turning point and now everything is you were starting to say,

now let's start talking about lineup releases for 2022.

Yeah.

I mean, I don't think I feel like, I hate to say it this way, but it feels like this

thing is starting to dissipate.

And if my city is getting to a point where they're letting go of some of the mandates,

they are becoming more free with parades and festivals and gatherings, then something's

really starting to move.

I mean, you guys have, COVID didn't happen in Tennessee and Chattanooga.

You guys have been in the Wild West for a year and a half, but here it's been pretty

locked down and the fact that it's starting to loosen up, if it's starting to loosen up

here, then it feels like it's starting to loosen up everywhere.

Yeah.

That's what I was asking.

Yeah.

All right.

I've got one other thing.

Speaking of desert, speaking of Coachella, I really wanted to spend some time today talking

about Dune because I have got so many thoughts about this movie.

I hadn't seen it yet.

Well, then we will pause that conversation because I really want to hear what TACO thinks

about this movie because he's such a David Lynch fan.

He's such a David Lynch fan.

This is not a David Lynch movie.

I know, I know, I know, but I want to hear what you think of that versus the David Lynch

one.

Well, have you read the book?

Of course not.

It's a book.

Yeah.

Okay.

What is there to talk about?

Yeah.

I mean, you read the book.

I'm not reading 17 volumes of 800 page books.

I'm not doing that.

The books would fill your bus.

TACO, they're huge.

I only read the first four and most of the ones after that were after Frank Herbert died,

his son and a co-author tried to take it over and they're not good.

They're not good.

Yeah.

Okay.

Stick with the original.

Well, I think that my point was I'd love to hear your takes.

I've heard so many takes on every side of this and I really want to see it.

I really want to talk.

I've been waiting five years to see it.

I know, I know.

You're one of these Dune guys.

I know.

I'm excited to hear what you think of it versus the David Lynch version.

That's all.

Well, and expectations, but I think it's right.

We probably shouldn't talk about it till you've seen it.

No, I don't want to soil anything.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm hopefully going this week.

What do you mean?

Go this week to see the movie.

Why would you go to see a movie?

Yeah.

I want to see the IMAX.

I don't have an IMAX screen in my house.

I want to see the IMAX.

Oh, okay.

I watched it on HBO Max like you did, I guess, Brad, right?

But they're showing it at IMAX theater here, too.

Well, I can't say that I watched it.

Yeah.

I fell asleep twice in 45 minutes.

Yeah.

I mean, I'd love to talk about it.

I can't wait.

Well, hold that conversation.

We'll talk about it next week.

I'm glad to see you guys.

I'm glad to be back in it and we'll chat about all things Dune next week because honestly,

it feels like its own music festival.

People are struggling.

They're looking for spice.

There's a worm monster.

Doesn't it feel like any other festival that you go to?

To me, it's the same thing.

A lot of walking.

Yeah, sure.

It's so much walking.

A lot of brooding.

A lot of drugs.

Naked teenage boys on the screen.

I don't...

Looking for liquids.

Yeah.

All right.

There you go.

What podcast?

We'll talk to you next week.

Love you.

Bye.