On this episode of The What Podcast, Barry, Lord Taco, and Bryan are joined by guests Trevin Bernarding and Chris Dossett to dive into the return of Bonnaroo day passes and discuss the attendee experience of the Bourbon and Beyond Festival, after we gushed over the lineup last week and talked to Dan, who attended the festival in 2022.
The crew discusses Bourbon & Beyond's consistently good lineups, but also explores the fest's attempts to craft an immersive experience (with particular grievances when it comes to lines for water and restrooms). Having been there themselves, Bernardi and Dossett share their opinion on whom they think is the right type of audience for this festival.
In other festival news, Bonnaroo has brought back one-day passes! The crew discusses their return, as well as the introduction of a two-day option. We've also got tickets to give away. More on that in the coming weeks, so make sure you're subscribed to The What Podcast and visit thewhat.co/win for more info.
Listen to the full chat here or watch via YouTube. Do us a solid and also like, review, and subscribe to The What Podcast wherever you listen.
Topics: Bourbon & Beyond, Bonnaroo
Guests: Trevin Bernarding, Chris Dossett
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Changes are coming.
That seems to be the word for the day.
Festivals are trying to figure out what people want and along with that comes change.
Changes to their ticketing, changes to the camping, changes to how you sit, where you
sit.
It all is part of the new landscape.
We'll talk about that and more this week on the What Podcast.
We're back.
Another episode of the What Podcast.
We're going to talk.
I don't know where we're going to go with this.
We've got a couple of guests.
We've got Chris and Trevin who are going to talk about their experiences at Bourbon and
Beyond.
They're also veteran festival goers.
So we talk about the changes that they've seen and that's where I want to go guys.
We've sat on here before.
I'm Barry.
I've been to Bonnaroo since 2002.
Brian, you've been every year since 2002.
I skipped two or three.
Russ, you've been every year since 2018 when we started this podcast which is focused on
primarily Bonnaroo but festivals in general.
Guys I don't know if you feel it but there's a lot of change in the air.
The festival world is changing.
It always has been.
It always has evolved but this year feels pretty epic for some reason.
Am I wrong?
No, you're not wrong and part of that is the pause button which we spent a lot of time
on here.
That's part of the change you're talking about and I'm not sure if this is exactly the change
you're speaking of this exact moment or one of the examples but the convoluted nature
in which these tickets are sold I believe is getting way out of hand and it's been happening
really slowly incrementally for the last maybe upwards of five years and bourbon and beyond
when I first looked at the tickets that was this thing I saw.
I was like this is a lot.
I don't really even understand what this is.
Camping for this or this for that.
Add on this and I didn't spend a lot of time.
You know granted I could have figured it out if I had spent more time.
I look at the way and especially we'll get to it the new pricing for Bonnaroo and I would
go to their site and start poking around and I'm like geez just like 20, 25 different options
of just admission into a festival and what happened to my days which weren't that long
ago Barry that you just bought your ticket and you went to the festival.
Those days are over.
No you nailed it and I think what here's what I think happened and it occurred to me this
morning the people who put these things together were like how do we give people what they
want?
How do we give give give give give and now all of a sudden they're like holy crap we're
we're we're Taylor mate we've gone too far.
We've there it's well you can't give everybody all of all of what they want ever.
No so if you try to give everybody everything they want you're going to give most everybody
a version of something that they weren't looking for.
I think it's just the unintended consequence of that.
Yeah and it's like I'm throwing this huge party for however pick a many people and you
want to tailor it to each person and then all of a sudden that person has their own
request and you didn't see it coming.
That's what it is and they're mad at what they want.
That's exactly right you didn't it's like I mean I've had some conversations this week
and here's where I'm going with this the plazas Bonnaroo they have gone so far in in making
those cool and we've talked about that over and over and over and did a very good job
and they've done a tremendous job but now it's like are we taking away from the headliners.
We've paid all this money for these artists to perform at Bonnaroo on the what in the which
you know stages but now we have these things out there in the plazas for them to do and
is it too much you know and I think if you stop there the answer would be no a short
answer but go ahead well then you got to figure out that they've got a plan for that they've
got insurance they've got people they've got things they have to deal with how much is
too much I guess is what I'm saying and I don't this is not a knock on anybody I think
the festivals are trying to figure out how to attract people and sell tickets right obviously
but I mean is it their job to book you know whoever on the main stage and make sure that
when you wake up in your camp that there's something for you to do I mean I don't think
it is their job but that's where that's where it's gone but I but I don't think it's I think
it's very it's very thoughtful to try to think of every different aspect and try to be as
unique as possible one quick thing I want to mention in reference to this but off slightly
what we're talking about we always talk about we don't care about the who the lineup is
at Bonnaroo and that's a little bit of you know exaggeration we do care sure but it doesn't
it but but we're also unique as we're very very close this is a world-renowned music
festival I think it does matter I do who's on this line and they've had a couple of years
over the last five plus five six seven years they've had a couple of clunkers maybe this
year would be in some people's minds one of those years but for most people who make it
part of their their rotation and part of their lifestyle they don't care but you're trying
to pull from a big I mean they're trying to get from every state in the city I mean they've
touted that as something that they're you know they wear as a badge of honor and and
so maybe this is a way to make up for well all right maybe we didn't make the perfect
lineup you can't make a great lineup every year it's just not possible maybe this is
their way of making that up well maybe no it's it's I think we're saying some of the
same things and I don't have a right answer I don't think there is a right or wrong answer
the other thing along what I'm saying is the fans have changed the the we are I mean Brian
you're in your what early 40s I'm 60 Russ you're I don't even I don't even know how
old you are you could tell me you're 10 I wouldn't even know if you watch his video
game channel you would exactly but we're so we're of a certain age we're also we've done
this for a long long time the late teens to early 20 year olds apparently is they are
a different audience they don't want to camp a lot of them from what I'm hearing they want
to stay in a nice hotel they they have a different expectation of what their music festival will
be we know this because EDM we know this because of DJs the whole industry has changed and
so we're looking at it I'm looking at it from my you know goggles whatever you want to call
it and what I'm hearing from the people in the industry is it's all changed and that's
that pause button thing that you mentioned that's why they're hitting pause they're trying
to figure it out yeah they're not sure how to move these 350 plus to $400 tickets necessarily
maybe could be part of it I think there might be a little bit of this and this just is old
man get off lawn type stuff but maybe Gen Z we're talking I mean Millennials are old
now I mean they are old people with kids that are growing up and their lives are changing
and Gen Z I'm not sure if they know what they want because who at that age really truly
does know fair that's what they want and maybe as a generation in a world that is pretty
hyper focused and and and and ADD is everybody all ages have the problems and maybe that
is part of scrambling some of these festivals to try to figure out how can we attract people
in a different way be more creative which Bonnaroo is the king of that maybe Coachella
would be a rival I've never you know none of us have ever been out that far for that
festival I've it's certainly a bucket list item for me one of these days maybe that's
part of it maybe it is these kids don't truly know what they want and the good news is is
they have short memories and they might come back again next year if we can just tweak
whatever it is we think maybe didn't work in the in the years past so our our guests
today Traven and Chris were you guys surprised at their answers about VIP I was because they
both said yes to this festival but no to this festival they'll do VIP for this one but not
that one I didn't expect that I would have assumed it's VIP all the way every time but
you know what I'm saying yeah I don't know surprise is the right word I because I get
such different answers to that I've had more experience of people who tell me who get VIP
or not you know who were money in that range is not crazy but it's still like ouch like
ah that's you know that hurts this month and many times I've heard you know it really wasn't
that much better well that's what that's what I'm saying by surprise it's not about the
money I mean they can both afford or assume but the way they talked it sounded like yes
it's something that they can they can afford it but they don't want to because it's not
worth it so my my point is imagine you're the organizers of these things how do you
deal with that I mean you know you're trying to you're trying to please people and create
these options and now you're hearing that this didn't work or that worked you know what
I'm saying it's it's these guys have I mean it just like you said earlier Brian you used
to just buy a ticket and you went and watched a concert it's over it buy your ticket and
go you know the first add-on was the parking once you know that's been a long time ago
now probably a decade ago and I remember thinking that when it hit I was like what a actually
brilliant idea you've got all these cars coming charge them all 50 bucks I mean how much is
50 bucks yeah but it's well so worth it and and now you know that's tripled the price
and and it's it's just gone on from there now you want a shower now you want somebody's
gonna cook your dinner for you or do you want that or well and as when and speaking of and
this is what happened 20 years ago is not that relevant to what happens today but in
you know in 2003 and four and five my first three full years of being there all weekend
long as a general attendee I actually a little maybe a perk or two towards that three or
four time five time but in 2003 and four I mean I was just like anybody else and I was
also 23 24 25 years old and to me the struggle was was part of it the struggle was part of
it now that's that's youth culture right that's youth cultures but the the struggle was real
and the struggle was what made it all worth it now I think I don't know if that's a thing
oh I think you're 100% right now they don't want they don't want that they want to they
want to drive up they want to walk right to the front and they want to see their favorite
act and leave but in that in some of that setting the way that the old pricing was it
was the one ticket price it fits all and that's kind of what we did we parked we walked in
we got Bonnaroo set up very well to be able to be experienced from multiple different
viewing points and that's what it was you just bought your ticket and walked in and
in 2005 a hundred and eighty nine dollar making up the number but I you know I think that's
probably a fair guess a hundred and eighty nine to two hundred dollars is probably being your top price to get in yeah inflation's different 20 years ago but that was a very doable fine yeah well I can scrape up a couple hundred bucks and then yeah we're gonna be sleeping under the sun or we're gonna be baked that's what you do at a festival no there's not a plaza none of us expected somebody to walk by and you know play an ukulele by our camp in the morning hey wake up guys we're having a party for you out here like
you had to make your own way and that's just how it was then and it was it felt like it was part of the experience itself but that's just we were in a new world that that's that is my point and that's that's what I've been hearing for three weeks is these guys that are putting these things on are just scrambling because it's a different universe the fans are different it's not us our our age group I mean we're still talking about VIP
and those sorts of things you know the porta potty close that kind of in water but the younger the younger ones and you know back to the get off my lawn they got a whole different mindset and they're the the the festival planners are trying to figure out what they want and it's a different it's a different thing well they've got it's a costume contest first of all that's you know that's what it started in
Coachella moved east over time it so it's a big a social media event so you need to make sure everybody has full charges on phones at all times that people have comfortable areas to get ready fit check you know you've seen these hashtag fit check for festival fit check we're you know doing the little dances on what I'm wearing today for Tuesday look at me and that's all that's part of their experience if you're a fan of what you're wearing today.
If they can't do that then they're going to have a rotten time and they might not come back so I think that leads to the plazas I think that leaves the G.A. plus areas to get more electricity and those kinds of things so the so the year the planner they don't make any I mean they can make better make money off a ticket but I mean how much of your energy are you putting into making sure that the fit check you know area versus whether you've got Neil Young on the main stage or you know.
A guy or gal who wants a fit check doesn't care if Neil Young doesn't give a crap I know who he is he's an old guy he's dead you know yeah that's so that's where we are and that's what I'm hearing from people in the industry and that's that's the reason for this pause is what the hell do we do.
Where we're just going so.
Well I'm assuming we're going to go down the road of the.
The new one and two day ticket.
Option part of it yes we should talk about it that's exactly part of it that was you know Brad Parker was very adamant that they weren't going to do that this year and the demand apparently from folks was that's what they want and so it's bad is it really.
It really demand yeah that's what they said but this the cynic of me and this is no I mean this was announced in the last.
I don't know five days or so from when you're hearing this maybe a full week since you've since you've heard this has been plenty of time to to discuss it on socials reddit and Twitter even a little Facebook is where I'll go to see a lot of.
That reaction so this is not a unique thought to me but it certainly was one of my first thoughts tell me you're not selling tickets very well without telling me your tickets aren't moving very fast without you know without telling me.
That's my first thought is if they if anybody at nine nation C3 Bonnaroo whoever's got a voice in this room thought that one and two day ticket sales were were vital or or we'll just say the word important to the bottom line well then it would have been an initial offering.
And they clearly decided not to go that way and and and many people misconceptions are that there's been one day to Bonnaroo for for a long time there I mean less than five years that they've done single days for the first 1516 17 years it was all weekend or nothing there was never ever a one day pass if you knew somebody who came for a day it's because they just came for a day and left they didn't have a one day ticket.
So to me it screams of what can we do to sell tickets because we're not selling them that's me it's me talking.
Well aren't we saying the same thing aren't we saying the same thing yeah and aren't we saying it's part of what we just spent the last 10 minutes talking about this is the change the.
What i'm hearing is people don't want to four day they don't want to go camping the grass for four days they want to do it their own way and part of that is they want to go when they want to go.
So.
On a roof specifically though is such a different animal you know like it's of course if you want to go to one bourbon and beyond day or if you want to go to one shaking these day we've all done that I bet you know we've all done a music festival in a setting like that for one day or well at least I have many times I know you have taco Shirley to bury yeah.
Bonnaroo once you get there you don't want to leave well like even the worst scenario you're not look yeah I guess that's what I'm saying that's you and me that's been on a trouble to get there to want to leave right after you get there.
That's the point that is the point you and I we have are I'm with you I've never left I once I'm there I've never left I did it it rips the band aid off the magic for me I've never understood hey let's go to Walmart and get you know never.
Well I'm guilty of leaving and coming back for sure but never understand so well I'm there until they kick me out.
Till the grass is mowed on Monday yeah he's the guy mowing the grass.
Yeah.
Locks up the gate but that's this is what I'm saying the the environment has changed so much.
And you know maybe it's one year maybe this is just this year and you know we've we've done this for so long we've seen the changes.
You know. Well I'm curious how many maybe they've got data on this but how many people buy a one day ticket for whatever reason maybe they can't commit to a full weekend or whatever but they go they have a good time and they say oh next year I'm coming for the full thing.
I wonder what the conversion rate is from single day tickets to people that end up going and maybe they wouldn't have before if they had a question.
I could be 100% wrong but I think that is part of what we're talking about. I think it's just a shift change.
Don't know yet.
Russ I mean it's a great question.
You know we we've talked about the fact that what 50% 55% of people who come to Bonnaroo are new every year.
We've heard what 23% of people are in there in the plazas during the main shows.
Yes at any given time at any given time.
You know those are those are num new numbers.
Are people going just for one day to see.
I don't know are they going just because of the headliner that day or they going just because Saturday is the only day they can get off.
I think it could be all of those things.
That's my point and I think that's what's changed.
Brian I mean I get what you're saying.
You and I go I mean we used to go on Wednesday and stayed on Monday and that was it.
It's a long time.
It's a long time.
I still do what I mean. Yeah what I'm hearing is that that's not what a lot of people want to do.
They wanted the one day or the two day and and Bonnaroo reacted to that.
Is it because they aren't selling tickets.
I mean I get your point but I don't know.
It's probably both.
It's probably both but I think it's because of the fact that you know it's a long time.
I don't know. It's probably both. It's probably both but I think it's because people don't want to commit to five days or four days or whatever.
Well the price cuts are not that less.
So if we're talking about that this is a financial motivated move and with the thoughts that maybe many of the people who were on the fence or maybe a lot of the social they were the scene was that listen man.
I just you know y'all are pricing me out. I can't handle this.
Well that's fine and I get that and I am the you know I'm the king of saying you know it's only one more dollar.
Well you know there are more dollars like they're eventually the dollars run out.
Do that.
The prices are not well that's another good question.
I really don't come up with.
I really don't know.
I mean that's to me bourbon and beyond and even the Bonnaroo with the changes in their their pricing structure kind of proved that it's not.
I mean again in my world you know another 10 bucks another 10 bucks another 10 bucks but what they have proven with their VIP and all their pricing is that there are people that will pay it.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah well and I mean the IP is sold out area 931 sold out.
Right.
I mean they're they're not having trouble moving the money the high end tickets.
Yeah.
Yeah well then you know then that takes a one off the list that just leads me back to thinking maybe overall GA is not selling as well but I mean I've got it you know GA for two days Centeroo is $330.
Two days.
What what I don't have like my screen is not big enough to pull up the whole thing.
What's the whole four day.
About $80 more dollars in that.
Yeah about the good point.
I mean what I mean what are you really doing here you're not saving any money.
So maybe it is experience oriented.
And then I also wonder and I wonder this from the first time they mentioned one day because this is the first time I've ever heard two days.
I mean that that's the first to me.
They've done the one day.
That way you get the overnight.
Well what happens when you get there and you just don't feel like leaving.
That's the question.
I mean I'm not going to stripe on your hair or something.
I don't know.
There's there's there is the there's really no way to enforce that.
I mean yes on paper you can make a way to enforce that but it's not going to happen.
So and you do have to have a brand and if for anybody who is not familiar which I'm sure you are listening to this but you know you scan when you go through.
But I mean without outing by name one of our guys from our longtime camp nut butter and a media organized oriented guy who is in and out of that industry now and only shows up occasionally.
Prove to the world everywhere that it doesn't matter what wristband you have.
He can be in any spot and that on that farm that you want to without being unlawful outside of the fact that you crossed maybe one area where you weren't supposed to but without breaking laws without breaking things without you without causing harm.
He was able to peacefully and politely.
It was amazing.
Go to.
He went to places I've never been.
Every time I turn around he was right next to me.
And I hate to say it.
I love you dearly.
You ain't that smart man.
You're not any smarter than anybody else.
It became his it became his weekend.
It was like I'm just going to see where I can go.
It was the biggest challenge.
It was a challenge.
He had a smile on his face all weekend.
We were all laughing and laugh every time I was like you.
It was the best.
To the point that one day or two days I mean if I'm 23 years old four or five six years old and I got a one or two day and I'm having time in my life you think.
Yeah, definitely alarms going off.
It's time to go.
No it's not.
Yeah.
That's a good point.
There's that and I don't think they care about that.
I mean that that extra body on the festival is not you're going to buy beer.
You know yeah you see pie or whatever.
Even if you're there.
Yeah.
You're going to buy food.
You're going to buy beer.
I agree.
What I do find interesting though of using the measurement of social media is so much of the and this is I'm going to call you the Bonnaroo dorks.
I'm one of you might be on a different level different level of dorkdom but the Bonnaroo dorks the purist the traditionalist maybe even the institutionalist talk about how this is going to ruin the vibe of the festival.
See that more but that word used the most but we understand where everybody's coming from same no matter what the terminology is meaning the field the environment the festival the atmosphere all that this one and two day stuff is going to ruin that.
I rolled my eyes the first time I saw that and the more I read it I rolled my eyes even more.
Yeah y'all thoughts on how does this make this great weekend for most people who think like we all do Bonaroo vians will say yeah in what way does this ruin the vibe and what way does this ruin the environment what am I missing or am I missing anything.
No I think I think that is a great question and I don't know the answer and nobody does.
To the point, you know, when it started, it was a hippie fest.
We've, we've said that 100,000 times yeah up until about oh five right oh five it was a hippie fest and they booked fish because fish fans would camp.
And then seven nine eight, you know, nine, they started with the VIP, and I felt it. I remember walking by the VIP area and thinking, oh man they're selling this thing out.
And then it occurred to me that they have to bring in money.
They have to adapt. And if you remember, Brian you you would you would remember I mean it would, it became.
Everybody's Woodstock. If you were, oh yeah yeah yeah you couldn't go you didn't make it to Woodstock so this was your thing you got to go and see naked people dancing to whatever.
Right. Yeah, I don't even know just where all the freaks and getting so weird where the freaks and geeks and you got to go and men act like you were hip for a while.
I don't know if it's been that for how long. I mean, do you feel that I wouldn't use that term terminology as far as the way we're using kind of older guides.
I don't know if it's slang is the right word but of these freaks and geeks and weirdos I still think there is that nature of, of, of to be seen right it is a place to be seen a place to make your tick tock a place to make your Instagram real
and check very much a right passage youth culture right of passage creates the ultimate mound of fear of missing out FOMO for sure. I think that's all still there.
Okay, I just think we define it look at it a little bit differently. I agree and that's where I think this year feels different. And I don't know why I don't know where it's going to your question, which is exactly your question.
Something is changing and I don't know what and I don't, I'm not 19 I'm not 18. I really should not even pretend like I am or that I understand.
But something is changing with not just Bonnaroo but festivals in general and I don't know exactly what and I don't think the organizers know.
I would go so far to say that a lot of the things that are changing is the loudness of social media and I really think tick tock and Instagram reels have become part of this they become so dominant in social media usage.
So you see a lot of follow the What Podcasts on tick tock and Instagram by the way, there you go. All the socials. Good job.
I think that's becoming so that's so prevalent and the greed of the American corporate machine is enemy number one in the last couple of years enemy number one since you know the counterculture of the 60s right I mean it's not new but it's still it's it's evolved into what it is now.
And I think people are looking younger people are looking at this and they're immediately turned off by the mount and this is just just a thought of mine amount of of layered convolution $150 to sit on the bleachers you anything in these kids want to sit on the bleachers
now, but they see one it's just like, oh another oh only another hundred you know another hundred fifty another hundred fifty another are they are people seeing this and thinking Bonnaroo has now become the corporate greed machine is it that we are so mad about and I'm just using social media as a barometer I don't know is it that or is it just I'm ready to move on.
I you know it certainly could be that I've posted I'm at Bonnaroo I here's my tick tock post now I'm ready to move on I don't want four days I want I been there done it I'm ready to go.
It's funny you say that because at the end of one of the years recently could have been just last year there was a tick tock that I saw that I thought I couldn't tell you what is now but it was an influencer based account and you could tell the by the way it was put together that they were
there's an info you go to the page on Bonnaroo where you sign up for anything from vendors to sponsors to social media to media to whatever there's also now a influencers tab and this one was a quick one day or done very well little video and it was next day we're out of here.
Yeah, yeah, done with it. So yes, to your point, I think the answer is yes some people that is that's all they need was their tick tock moment. I've done it, I've proven to everybody I'm here, and now I'm out I mean let's let's go with taco, you were there on Tuesday.
That's a funny picture you're about you and the bus on Tuesday.
It'd be the same picture on Wednesday, it'd be the same.
You know, you know, I don't. All right, so I didn't make one tick tock either.
No, but that's not me. I mean I wouldn't, but I'm saying that's.
I don't know the answer and I'm not going to pretend. But I think that's what these organizers are having to figure out is the whole environment is changing.
It is still about the as, as we hear from our guests, Trevin and Chris. It is still about who's playing. We still want to see live music.
Everything else just seems like it's in such a flux right now. I mean, I, and what I'd love to see in the comments of this on YouTube or at Consequence or anywhere that you find this podcast or this video in the comments.
How does the one and two day potentially affect a daily grind of the average Bonnarooian when I said, I mean the guy gal who goes and understands the environment.
How does it affect because I don't understand how it would. I think it's nonsense to say that it will. Am I maybe I'm way off base. I'd love to hear in the comments more about the reasons potentially that that could affect that just out of pure curiosity.
I agree.
Yeah. All right. So like I said, we've got Chris and Trevin on to talk about bourbon and beyond. And what I think you, I find interesting is a lot that they talk about the experience the VIP experiences, what they liked and what they didn't like, and it all I think fits into this same conversation we're having about just how the festival world has changed, right.
Yeah, yeah, I think they both had different perspectives, but they both led to the same place. Yeah, is what it felt like to me. All right. So here we are. Here's our interview with Chris and Trevin. Thanks to those guys for sharing their insights. We'll probably have some more people on. We like to get some younger people on to talk about what they're looking for in festivals. But here we go with Chris and Trevin.
All right, we've got Chris and Trevin. We're going to talk about bourbon and beyond. We talked about it a little bit last week and kind of got a little a little scared, if we're going to be honest.
So we wanted to we reached out and said, Hey, if you guys have any other experiences, we'd love to hear from you and got several emails and responses and including those from Trevin, who has been on the show before. Trevin, I want to have you back on. I was trying to explain to Brian and Russ.
I've known you for quite a while and I think I'm right. You weren't really doing the festival scene kind of before what 2018 and then all of a sudden.
Yeah, so 2014 was my first festival firefly and it was like a it was like my daughter, Bridget, you know, very set me this lineup in 2014 and so like, Dad, this is like your lineup in 20. I've never been to festival for I've been a lot of always been in music.
Yeah, I play a little guitar things of that nature. And so my son and I went camped never camped at a festival for so that was my first experience and I hope me, you know, so I've fireflies been my go to.
Unfortunately, it's it's on pause, as we all know that's predominant is going on right now. But when 2015.
I was on the rail for Paul McCartney and 15 hours a hot part of the highlight of my festival career. So to speak, I've been a bottom one time 2017 we ran an RV.
The great experience. Yeah, Monterey, of course, I've been to La Palooza.
2022 sloths fast about been I've been there quite a few festivals with fireflies been my like my go to over the years.
And that's why I wanted to talk to you and then Chris you reached out as well you and your wife went to Berman beyond 2022.
Or is it correct. Yep, we were the 22 we were there for the Pearl Jam show. Okay, so we wanted to that's why we reached out to you guys both we want to get sort of somebody else's take on what's going on and and Chris you and your wife, your, your veterans festival
and your co-writers. Yeah, we're old.
We started in 2001 at River Stages and kind of got hooked Nashville, and then we started going to Memphis and made to build straight music festival because it was such a good deal back in the day you could go for all three days for I think $65.
And we did that for five years we also done the Lollapalooza for a few years, and then whatever was a bucket list for me, my wife finally caved in 2021 and then the hurricane happened so she made it up to me in 2022 and then she got hooked.
But last year we in 2022 we also decided to go see Pearl Jam and at Bourbon, yeah Bourbon and Beyond because you go see Pearl Jam if you get the chance because you never know where they're going to tour, so we went and we had heard bad things about Louder
and Life which is on the same. It's the same festival grounds as Bourbon and Beyond is just a weekend after they just rebrand everything and was like well they've had a few years to get their act together.
We'll give it a shot, and we did the whole.
We put our chairs in sit on the grass and it was an experience for sure.
I don't even know how to respond to having like two festivals in the same spot.
Well they have three actually have three in a row.
That's crazy. So how are they different.
Country festival as well.
How are they different.
Do you know. I mean, are they different. I know, I know Louder than Life they had two stages to the back.
Whereas Bourbon and Beyond they have like one smaller side stage that they do cooking and they have they bring in celebrity chefs and things for that, that they do that back there but for Louder and Life they put two extra stages in the back, and they alternate back and forth all day.
All right, so real quick. Where are you both located traveling you used to be in Chattanooga with me, where are you living now. Yeah, I've been in McKangsburg, Pennsylvania, or outside of Harrisburg.
All right, Chris, where are you.
I'm in Paducah, Kentucky. Okay, about two and a half hours north. Yeah, pretty close to Louisville.
All right, so the. And how do you, how do you festival, how do you do these do you camp. Are you hotels. What's your preference.
Bodaro camp. We camp in 931.
Last year we were lucky enough to get in there we got in again this year.
So thanks for giving a high high rolling.
Thank God for the layaway plan is all I can do. It's awesome for you. It's amazing. Trust us. We know, we know. Great.
And then for louder than my other festivals will shaky knees etc we will stay in a hotel or Airbnb. What do you do traveling. So I started out camping at Firefly, and I vowed in 2015 never to camp again.
I did RV in 2017 and Monterey which is awesome, but at Burbank beyond last year we camped.
So that was my first camping time. It's since it's Firefly to Firefly as hotels, tons of hotels around it. So it's very walkable.
Of course, off the loose is walking other festivals, or some illegal tell, but I will, I've venture into camping again.
So, so can we talk about the camping setup at Bourbon and beyond right now or do you want to have somewhere else I wanted to go there very what jump right in.
That's been I think taco you've wondered the same thing we talked about a little bit in the last couple of weeks, what was the camping like it Bourbon and beyond we've heard a little primitive not really what what most camping festival goers would expect.
And I've read a little read it here and there that it's not as bad as maybe we had heard. What was your experience.
Yeah, I'm assuming you know that 2023 they made improvements, because I mean I was.
We were on grass first of all we got it on Wednesday, so I flew into to Louisville my friends picked me up from China actually, and we had great spot in the grass about a mile, one point one I think it was to walk in, they had shuttles to take if you wanted to sometimes we did sometimes we didn't.
Play showers like I never waited for a shower it was good pressure. They even had a beer vending area that was actually normal beer prices and it will allow I thought that'd be at the festival beer prices but it wasn't but camping.
There was a circle K we walked to to get our gear. So yeah, the, the camping site self didn't have the amenities like firefly has like moderate house.
So, you know, comfortable. The biggest problem was the cargo planes that was crazy. I mean I felt like I could reach up and touch like landing gear. I mean it was that close coming over our heads around 4am.
So, so it wasn't constant.
No, it was, it was, you know, they started leaving in the morning like you know is a UPS facility so they're loading their packages and they're taking off, and then they then they come landing in so they'd pay on the winds I guess you know I don't know much about planes but to the
to the five days there, you'd hear them, three to five you did.
So, is it around the, around the clock festival like Bonnaroo, is there music going on or is it starting stop, start and stop times. Yeah, I think it's 10 or 11.
Okay, okay.
All right, Chris, what would you.
How about you, how about your experience.
We didn't camp, I drove past the campgrounds to get in, but I didn't camp. One other thing I think it's interesting is that the campground is also next to the amusement park, which is odd.
Kentucky Kingdom is right, right across the chain link fence from, from the campground but it's interesting.
So, after there we drove in part, you park at the Expo Center.
I think it was $20, $25 to part normal fees I guess these days but we got in, we got our spot.
We kind of just camped in one location all day. We did GA for louder than, I'm sorry for bourbon and beyond but for louder in life we were like no we're going to do VIP or we're not going.
We needed that we wanted the little extra space access to the nicer bathrooms, a little less crowded and VIP so that was a, but I don't think it was worth it in the end.
Traven didn't you do VIP as well. I did, I did. They call it Mint VIP so not the super duper VIP. So I did Mint VIP. And yeah I wouldn't do GA at this particular festival.
VIP itself, I put festivals in two camps. Some festivals you can go to, just book it. Monterey, Firefly, La Palooza, Coachella probably, I've never been. Wherever beyond is a festival you need to see the schedule and then decide am I going or not.
Because it's really about the music and the bourbon, I mean it truly is. There's a lot of bourbon stuff going on too. It's not about the, you know, amenities so to speak.
I'm glad you brought it up that, sorry John, I'm glad you brought it up that way because I was kind of getting the feel over the last few weeks, especially now that I find out there's an amusement park, a chain link fence away, there's a UPS shipment facility.
It's the expo center which is already just the exposition center, just doesn't sound sexy. It doesn't sound like the kind of vibe that many festival goers are looking for to your point. Take a look at the schedule, make sure that it's for you.
And maybe they know that because the last several years, it's not just this year that Bourbon and Beyond has been a good lineup. It's been a good lineup for about three or four years in a row now, at least if you're asking me.
I was, I refreshed myself with 2023 but it was just like, that's when we went though. We saw the schedule, it was like, holy cow, we're going to this. I mean, you have Brandy Carlisle, Billy Strings, Bruno Mars, Blondie, Duran Duran.
I mean it was incredible, the music. It was absolutely fragrant. But yeah, it's not the immersive experience of Bonnaroo or Firefly.
It's just not. It's about the music and then for Bourbon and Beyond, it's about really good, my two buddies really into Bourbon. I'm not so much a Bourbon guy.
I went to Makers Mark, frozen drink booth all the time, but that was my Bourbon experience.
Sounds good.
Yeah, it was delicious. I mean, it was great.
But yeah, I was listening to Day. I'm sure he had that experience. I don't doubt it. But I think he was a Wild West festival goer that needs the Bonnaroo or the Firefly. This is my take.
I'm glad you jumped on that, Brian, because I think that's what the point of this show is going to be is we've talked so much and we're going to talk probably for quite a few episodes about the experience, the fan experience and whether it's about the lineup or not.
We could not have gushed any more than we did the last time about this lineup. It looks made up. It's stupid good.
But then, you know, then we can't, you know, it's like, oh my god, you're going to camp on asphalt. I mean, so it's it. The point is, it's a it's different, right. Do you go for the four day experience of hanging out with friends and the camping, or do you go because you get to see, you know, Neil Young, or whatever.
Right. I don't know. I mean, where's that line. Right. I mean, I know I'm looking at Brian, I know what he's thinking. I know what tacos thinking he doesn't care. He's going to be in the bus.
Somebody could bring a boombox and he'd be he'd be happy.
Yeah, I'll be there. Yeah. So, wow, what a that's, that's where that's where the line is. Right. Are you going to see your favorite band. And who cares. You know, whether you're the Porter Potties line lines are long, or is it about the Porter Potties lines. Right.
Exactly. I wish I could speak to GA. It seemed almost less credit than VIP. Honestly, we're talking about that during the festival. It seemed less credit. VIP was very crowded for the headliners.
We got there rather than opened. So we were hanging out at our campsite. Quick fight story. We go to camp on Wednesday. My buddy is David Knowles. He's a big airhead.
And he forgot that the interior tent poles. So that's what we're dealing with. You know, we first get there, but we're on grass. I'm not sure. The RVs are all on concrete. And I made a comment and we had beautiful weather. It was not hot at all.
It's one 23 is 2022 sounds like you got a heat wave. So yeah, that would be awful on that asphalt.
We have perfect weather. So all right. Let me ask you both. And I'll try and ask you first. Define for us a good festival. What are your criteria?
Well, I have A and B criteria, you know, for, for, you know, Firefly for Bonnaroo. I want the experience. I want to want to want to meet other people.
I want to see good music. Of course, is always it's always part of the equation. But sometimes I just want to see bands. I just want I'm there for the music. And that's what we're going to be honest.
So it's the various.
We kind of want the dollar we've we've been around that we've sampled other festivals. We've kind of narrowed it down to the fact of where we want an overall good experience, whether it's the music, whether it's the festival grounds, whether it's the the atmosphere.
We kind of look for the the whole package now.
Where do you put bourbon and beyond them.
Well, we we are not going to bourbon and beyond this year. And I can tell you that Beck is one of my wife's top tier bucket list bands that she is that she's never seen. And we're still not going.
Why?
We just did not have a good time last time we were there with when we were there for a lot of life.
It's the way the festival is laid out. It's very flat for the most part. So she's a little vertically challenged. She's only five three. So when she gets in a big crowd of people, she can't see the stage.
Whereas when we're at bottom, we have the mound or we have, you know, different areas where we can see.
Also, it was very crowded. It was it just the the people.
It's a different crowd. So to say it's not a bad crowd. It's just a different crowd.
And it just I don't know. We just didn't feel like it was for us.
Sounds a little more city slickers ish. If that makes any sense.
But it much more feels like a local festival, if that makes sense. Yeah.
I mean, I could I could totally see this going either way with this.
And I've you know, we as Barry mentioned, talked a lot about how much we love the lineup and we all do.
I mean, I don't think there's a person who knows music who doesn't at least somewhat agree with that.
It's got both quality and quantity. Often you only get one.
But yeah, I mean, you're good for Louisville. I mean, I bet it's the party of the year Louisville's, you know, and within an hour's drive either way.
And we're only about five hours away here. It's not like it's a long to easy. It's the easiest drive.
Yeah, it's not like it's a long ways away, but that is a little bit far away from home.
If you get stuck on a slab of concrete or if you are having carrier planes flying over your head and it's annoying you or you forgot something or whatever.
I guess I don't have a greater question other than I mean, you say, Chris, you're not going and travel would are.
Would you go back or you are going to try?
Yeah, I got my venti. I got my venti. I feel like today the line came out.
Oh, I called. I called my buddies and like we got to go again.
What about you, Chris? Are you out? Is that kind of a deal breaker for you now then or?
Yeah, we're out. We're not going to try having who we who who on the lineup told you who grabbed you.
We just just go each day. You know, it's just it's just a crazy.
I mean, I mean, I've seen back a couple of times, you know, but we go and see them.
It really was the headliners are not as good this time to me. It's just more it's more to the depth.
It's just it's just yeah, I think maybe talk to you mentioned it. You look at it.
You're like, holy cow, Chris Isaac's on there. You look at it again. What Bruce Hornsby?
What happened to the range? And you know, was Bruce Hornsby somebody else?
I mean, every time I look at that lineup, I'm like the noisemaker.
Yeah. So yeah, every time you look at it, you see a different name. Right.
You didn't notice before. So it's true.
I mean, I saw soul, soul, soul, soul last last show.
Now, Summerfest is another one that I went to last last summer.
And it's it's similar in the sense of the whole camping there. It's in Milwaukee.
It's all concrete. It's a permanent structure in downtown Milwaukee.
It's totally local. But we went I went with a buddy because of the lineup.
So soul, soul dinosaur junior.
So a lot of repeats from the summer I saw that what I want to see again.
All right. So Ross and Brian, are we back in or we out?
Anywhere new. I'm right in that same purgatory area of the festival lineup.
Mesmerizes me. It's speed. It's speaks to me.
I'm glad, Trevor, we can we can bond over the soul asylum thing.
Oh, my God. I love that. They were so they don't.
And they don't tour anywhere. I mean, outside of the Northwest.
And but I think I'm in the exact same spot.
This is going to be we'll just have to just give me the rest of the year to keep thinking about it.
And we'll go from there. I also many times, though, I've found it curious when people talk about the VIP versus GA.
And oftentimes at Bonnaroo, people say the the G the VIP is not worth the money.
I would never. But yeah, I wouldn't I would not do my VIP at Bonnaroo.
I would do VIP at La Palooza. But Mervin and beyond. It works at Mervin.
Yeah, you need it. You need VIP out there.
It's not to me is everything's relative.
But, you know, eight hundred bucks for four days of crazy good music.
I mean, it's still a pretty good deal. That's a great question.
Chris, you raised your hand. What were you going to say? I am B.I.B. all the way.
I enjoy the very much being able to sneak into that air conditioned lounge in the middle of the afternoon when it's on the degrees out.
Or they they do usually offer some sort of free beverage throughout the day throughout the weekend, which is helpful.
Last year it was soda, which wasn't great.
The year before that it was water, which was the liquid death water.
So that was better. But yeah, the air conditioned bathrooms, the running water, the.
Access to some of the for the which stage to be able to get up close at the which stage is really nice to get in that little side pocket, which I don't understand why it's so big.
It seems unnecessarily large. It was huge. But I appreciate it nonetheless.
And for us older folks to be able to go up on the mound and chill out in those tiny chairs is it's pretty nice.
Trav and Chris, thank you guys so much for giving up some time on a Sunday morning and offering your insights.
This is exactly what we want to talk about. I hope to see you guys in Louisville.
Let me know if you're going to catch up with you there. If we're there for sure.
We'll be talking about it every week until September.
I think one more one more festival I'm going to is that new one in Charlotte.
And first we get a May I will try to see Noah Cohen and he's there and we could make shaky knees.
So I think what a nice guy. I hope you heard his episode on our idea.
Yeah, I so cool. What a great.
Yeah, our report back on on love and life is a new one.
And that one comes up Bonnaroo last year because that show was so huge.
Everybody that's everybody says, where were the screens where major overflow?
One of the biggest overflow crowds I've ever seen on the this maybe that know that it was that biggest overflow crowd I've ever seen.
Yeah, what a nice guy. Yeah, I can't wait to see him.
I don't know if we cleared that up or we made it muddier. I don't know.
Are we didn't clear it up for now? Yeah, I'm still on the fence. I still got I mean, it just it just addressed all the same things I've been thinking about.
But it didn't I don't think these answers are going to be easy to be found because this is a depends on who you ask situation and certain right certain aspects of it.
If I could drive up there and be right right up close for Neil Young, I'm in I'm going.
You don't know how many more days the man's got on a stage that I mean that it with all the with all the depths of my heart.
One of my favorites of all time is that's a Thursday night too. Yeah. Yeah.
And that's just one I just plucked that out of that unbelievable lineup.
I know. So yeah, we're we're that still in the conversation.
So I do also want to mention real quick, just a quick plug for totem. They're having an event in New York City, Sunday, February 18.
So that would be totem is Daniel and Sharla the real robust folks I'm on that board they've put together an organization to give tickets.
And thank you. I'm glad you mentioned that Russ. They they're going to provide scholarships for people to go to Bonnaroo their, their goal and it's an ambitious goal is to pass this on basically to people to
Brian what you were just talking about the vibe and everything. We love it. We are 100% into it. And so are they and that's what totem is all about.
So yeah, check that out. But back to the point, we have tickets to give away. I don't know how we're going to give them away, but we're going to give away two tickets.
GGA plus we've gotten those thanks to our co co founder of the what podcast Brad Steiner got us a couple of tickets as he has for the last several years.
So we'll figure out how we're going to give those away in the next couple of weeks. So none of this one day today nonsense.
You got to come in the full ticket. Yeah.
Before back and tell us timestamp it find a newspaper show. You got to show up Tuesday with me. That's the only catch.
All right. What else? What other news do we miss? God, there's so much we I mean we didn't even get to it all. We talk. I just the buzz of this one day two day thing is what's kind of, you know, just consumed my social comment in the weeds threads read, which I enjoyed reading a lot of it.
I just thought I just don't get how that would be a problem. But, you know, I get it, man. But maybe I didn't say it right. But I think it's part of just the whole shifting change. And that's what that was my point that I wanted to talk about.
Well, and it's either change or what pause die. I don't know. You know, like, oh, I don't if they don't do some of these changes, you know, Bonnaroo might be one that says we're on hiatus until we can figure out what to do.
So, well, I mean, they've been fighting back from some financial struggles for a long time. How long can they do this? I mean, we go back to 16. They barely sold any tickets. We go back to one of these years.
19, I think, didn't sell very good tickets. Then all the 20, 21, 21, excuse me, 20, 21. Don't need to reset that. And then, you know, how long can can can financial distress be prevalent in your business organization before you have to make drastic changes, which are what don't stuff we don't even want to forget.
We love Bonnaroo. But it is a commitment. I mean, it's it's a unique animal. You are camping in a 700 acre field for four days minimum. You know, forget the one day two day thing. I mean, it is a commitment. Just we're an hour away. I mean, there are people who drive 15 hours to I know.
And that's we talked to him on the show. Yep. One of my favorite things in my life over all these 20 years is especially the holidays or something. And you get into, you know, you get stuck in a small talk and that small talk. I don't mind having.
And it's always like, so what about Bonnaroo or my daughter's about to be 18 wants to go to Bonnaroo? Is it safe? And you know, same same kind of conversations over and over again.
And and and to me it is it is maintained its image as being a place, a festival that you have to go to as a young person. And even as not a young person, I tell everybody it's not for everybody. It's not. I still say you give it one try. Right.
Give it one drive. Yeah. And and just be for nothing else for a story, man. Just say, man, I hated it. It was the worst thing ever. Let me tell you all about it. But I get it. Some people are going to laugh at that.
Be like, yeah, no, thanks. I need a mint on my pillow at night. Thank you very much. It's the best man. I mean, it's it's changed our lives. There's no question about it. We're sitting here talking about it every week. I mean, yeah, there's there's it's incredible.
So but come ingrained in most things in my life over the course of a year of just random. It is it's a wonderful, wonderful place. Even with all this convolution, I just I don't feel like the magic of the festival has gone at all.
No, I don't know. Your wallet might be hurting in your credit card statement by the end of the year is going to be biting in the ass. But the magic is still now. I'm glad you said it that way.
Yeah, and and I want to make that point. It's just feels like a change to me. I don't I'm not, you know, naysay and anything like that. It just feels like a shift change. And and they've done that many, many times. We've made that point before.
Back to the fish and the hippie fest. It's changed multiple times. You know, from adding bathrooms to the VIP and all that it will continue to change. This just feels like one of those years when to me there's a pretty big shift change and it's not just Bonnaroo.
And in talking to the folks that put these things on, it's an industry change. Bourbon and Beyond. All of them are dealing with a lot of these same things you know the headliners supposedly it's a tough year to book headliners.
That's because we came out of COVID. It's just, you know, it's just worth noting is all I'm saying. So, no, I think it's still great. I'm excited. I'm I think I'm more excited about going back this year than I have been in the last four or five years.
And I don't know why. Quite honestly.
Just, just just want to see what's up.
Yeah, I haven't been on a show with you guys to talk about the lineup itself that much. I've actually wanted to do a deeper dive down the road about looking at some and look at some of these bands that are repeats.
It's always been my biggest thing that I've complained about Bonnaroo for 20 years was that it's like they they repeat a lot but they do in a very unique way. We can get into that another time.
But I still don't love the lineup but it doesn't matter never not great and I can't wait for June as much as I haven't been able to wait for it most every other year now time flies so fast I actually can wait till I have a lot to do between now and June.
So, yeah, take your time. It's okay. You don't need to get here sooner than the normal. Yeah, well we will hopefully have a lot of these artists on the show to aren't we.
Yeah, we, we, that's, we will have artists on we will talk about lineup will do the deep dive.
I don't know if we're going to do Bonnaroo let it's one of my favorite things we'll do something similar.
Yeah, wait. I mean, this is February we haven't even really talked about the lineup much other than lineup day so lots to do so. All right guys.
I think that's it we could do this all afternoon. I could anyway. I could. I got nothing else to do.
We got this we got this dumb football game. Oh, there's that.
Gotta go see what goes got to put his bets. Gotta go see what takes.
All right. Love you guys.
