The What Podcast
Moon River Festival Sets Sail: Why Chattanooga's Beloved Fest Is Moving to a Cruise Ship
Season 8, Episode 40
Published October 8, 2025
https://thewhatpodcast.com/episode/moon-river-festival-sets-sail-why-chattanoogas-beloved-fest-is-moving-to-a-cruise-ship

I don't think anybody in Chattanooga loves Moon River as much as I do.

Chattanooga is experiencing a loss, a culture loss, and I think that is a fair

thing to grieve, and we are sad about it as well.

Come stay with us. This is your community. Moon River fans, please, you know, come with us because

it's the magic of all of us being together.

I want to just confirm you did say there is maybe a chance it comes back to Chattanooga

if we can find the right venue.

This is my only proprietary information I'm going to drop on your podcast, okay?

Welcome back to The What Podcast. This is a show about Bonnaroo in particular,

but festivals and live music in general. Today's topic is going to be festivals and live music

in general. Specifically, we're going to talk about how things have changed over the years,

and I can't think of two better people to discuss that with myself. Barry, and that's Russ,

and that's Brian. With us are Jeff Cuellar of Six Man and Drew Holcomb of the Moon River Festival.

How are you guys?

Doing fantastic.

Doing great. Yeah, doing great.

Drew, you weren't on, but earlier off air, Jeff said he's just living in paradise or another day

in paradise, and I said I can't think of anybody that that actually applies to better than you.

Literally goes to paradise what? A couple times a year, several times.

Several times a year. I am very fortunate to set foot, in fact, we just did an event not long

ago in Alaska, which was a different type of paradise, one that I definitely appreciate with

the outdoors.

To prove my point.

All right, so the reason we are together, we're going to let's talk about Moon River at sea first,

because that's coming up in November, right? November 11 through the 15th?

Well, 2026.

2026 a year.

Yeah, we got a little bit of time.

Jeff, I've known you since probably what, 02? In some way or another?

I'd say so. I think 02 probably was the first year we did meet.

Yeah, that sounds right.

For long time listeners of the show, or more recent listeners of the show,

Jeff had the job that Brad Parker had before Brad Parker had it pretty much, right?

You used to joke with me when I would ask your title, it was Hey Do This.

That was it.

Get it done.

Pretty much.

So you were with Bonnaroo doing that job until what, 2002?

2002.

2002, I mean, yeah, yeah, 2021 was my official send away. So I left in October of 2021.

And you now, I just saw where you are now CEO of Six Man, right?

I am. I'm the current CEO for Six Man.

Congratulations. What is the job? What is it you guys do?

We produce intimate festivals at sea for the most passionate audiences.

So we try to find a group or community, and music is obviously a major component of that,

that are highly passionate, and then gather all of those people together and use a cruise ship

as the venue. And I mean, if you think about any venue out there, we've got multiple stages,

places to eat, bathrooms, you name it, and it's nice and contained. I mean,

it's actually take you on vacation. So it is no different than any other venue out there.

It just, mine just happens to float and take you to amazing destinations.

But the real magic happens on the ship where that community gets a chance to relax, be together,

and have moments that you just can't have a lot of times when you have to worry about

where am I maybe going to go to dinner? Or am I going to go get a hotel room after the show?

Various things along those lines because you live together. And when we're looking for these

communities, it is truly the most passionate, the fans that some may say, you know, they're

maybe a little too obsessed at times, but are just really want to be together because it is that

moment where the artists and the fans can be together in a way that is truly remarkable,

that allows for that magic to happen. And it's been fun because we've expanded beyond

music, which has always been kind of the bread and butter. Everyone sees the passion there,

but gone into comedy, gone into more brand style stuff with Hallmark. Really, again,

anywhere there's passion, I think there's an opportunity to produce an event.

Drew, I don't mean to leave you sitting there, but I got Jeff, I got you for a minute here while

we're talking this cruise thing. It's kind of fascinating to me. Six man been around about

20 years. Is that right? Early 25 years come August 30th of next year. So we're in the

20th anniversary. It does feel like in the last decade and a half, it's really picked up the idea

of sailing for experiences. I did notice that, and you just mentioned that you branched out past just

music. You got to explain to me this, the Savannah bananas and what you guys are doing there. And if

I sound like I'm skeptical about the Savannah bananas, my big baseball guy, so I don't necessarily

love the globe trotter stuff. But anyway, tell me what that is real quick. A little as much time

as you want to spend. Sure. I mean, Savannah bananas, you talk about somebody who's got probably

one of the most passionate fan bases and how they've been able to cultivate it with their fan

first mentality. It really was kismet, you know, how we were able to kind of come together and

think, how can we replicate and do something on the ship? And if you've had the pleasure of going

into their games, or even just watching it on YouTube, their ability to have intimate connections

with the fans through the game of, well, banana ball now, and the fun stuff they do inside of it,

the rules of, I don't want to call it over time, but extra innings, all of it together and how they

dance, how they do all of that, we're able to replicate essentially a show on the ship. And

all of the players that play across their various teams, from the party animals, the firefighters,

they're all in attendance, and they're all out and about doing things, having fun interacting with

the fans. And it truly is a space that is, it's a great time. I mean, I had my kids with me,

the first time we did an event with them was a year ago now. And then, you know, they're excited

enough to come back and do it again. Well, the power of their brand is undeniable. I just, I mean,

they're filling up football stadiums for a base, you know, they're playing baseball on a football,

it's wild. So I just, when I saw that, I was like, wow, they can do anything right now.

So Drew, thank you for listening. Thank you for being here. How you been?

I've been great. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. It's been a couple of years since we've seen you

on the show as well. You started, co-founded Moon River in, was it 18? 15? No, it was founded in

2013 in Memphis. I believe in the year. Yeah, we did it for three years in Memphis. That's a bit of

a thing that a lot of people don't know, but I think it started in Chattanooga, it actually

was in Memphis for three years. Took a year off in 17, so it was 13, 14, or 14, I think 2014 was

the first year. Yeah. 14, 15, 16, took a year off, moved to Chattanooga, began a partnership with

what was then AC Entertainment, as you guys know. Yeah, but in the meantime,

I started doing sixth man cruises even before that. I think I did the rock boat

probably 14, 15 years ago. I've done that three or four times and they have this great one called

K-amo songwriter, sort of songwriter-centric cruise, which we've done four or five times.

When Jeff and I were working on Moon River, specifically that first year,

it was really fortuitous that there was this missing angle of the triangle that neither one

of us knew we were connected to when he started working at Sixth Man. So, yeah, we did Moon River

in Chattanooga, 18, 19, it got canceled for COVID, like everything in the world, 21, 22, and 23.

So, really, really great run there in Chattanooga. In the meantime, there were some industry changes

that sort of made it challenging. We had a rain out on 22 with the Sunday, which made it financially

challenging. So, yeah, we kind of had to figure out what we're going to do in the meantime and

decided that the way that the community is sort of honored through Sixth Man's work,

that it was a good fit for a while while we sort of figure out the long-term strategy.

Hey, Drew, we hopefully reach a large audience outside of the city of Chattanooga, but we all

live in Chattanooga. And so, we're a long time forever residents here. And so, I was on the

Reddit thread yesterday, and you know how Reddit goes. And the discussion was Moon River. Can you

speak to the people of Chattanooga? I mean, there was a lot of people who loved your festival here.

It was almost like the professional outfit that this city really needed. We had festivals,

but they were more like carnivals. And none of us knew that Coolidge Park would work as well as it

did, at least for the amount of time that you did it. Can you speak to the city of Chattanooga

specifically of just of the decisions to move to in a different direction? Sure. I don't think

anybody in Chattanooga loves Moon River as much as I do. I know that it's a beloved institution

there, but no one was more sad in 24 that we were not able to have it than I was. But to your big

picture questions, there's a festival in Birmingham called Iron Hills Festival that had to cancel

three weeks out. They basically said due to rising costs and low demand, they're having to pull the

plug. Now, obviously, Moon River did not have under demand. We sold it out the last year.

But the economics of putting on a festival the size that we did in the space of Coolidge Park

no longer were viable for the people who were on the hook financially. I'm not on the hook.

When we sold it in 2018, it wasn't really my choice. While Coolidge Park was the perfect spot,

because of the financial cost of the rain out in 22, and then 23, we had a banner year from a top

line perspective. But the bottom line perspective relative to the risk of weather, et cetera, was

not an acceptable spot for the people who were on the hook financially for it. So that just sort

of left us in a spot where I sadly, again, it wasn't my choice, but it also wasn't my money.

I know Jeff especially always cringed whenever I asked for numbers in specific. So you can both

say whatever you want. But basically what I was told was 12,000 was basically the amount you could

get into Coolidge. And because of the economic changes, 15,000 is what you needed. And I think

you guys spent the last couple of years trying to find a place that would still be downtown and fit

the vibe and the ethos and everything that could get that number and just couldn't find it.

So yeah, that's exactly right. And honestly, yesterday I was with some folks from Chattanooga

and they were asking me questions and they said, well, the word on the street is the city messed up.

And I'm like, absolutely not. The city has been from day one, a fantastic partner. So I would like

to put that rumor to bed. The city has been as helpful as is reasonably possible. Jeff can tell

you that from the beginning. Yeah, from the very beginning, because I mean, I was obviously part of

the psych selection team in terms of looking for stuff. And I've worked in a lot of different

communities and the teamwork and just, I would say every single department in Chattanooga,

working together, trying to help find our original spot in Coolidge Park and walking with us and try

to say, like, we would talk about logistics and how we would tackle things. And even in going into

that year one, I can't think of a community that was more embracing and more solutions oriented

than Chattanooga. I mean, it was, I can't say enough positive things about my time working with

there and all the time I've worked with Chattanooga to be honest. It's always, it was always one of my

favorite places to go do business. Well, for some reason, none of us looked at Coolidge Park and

thought, throw a festival in there and put a fence around it. Yeah, Jeff, your vision there certainly

worked because I thought, Jesus, what do they think they're doing in that little place? Everybody.

Boy, it was a home run. I think Chattanooga embraced it so quickly because that first year was

a freaking home run as a patron, as a, as a, as a media member, as a, as a vendor, like there was

just excellent work and we hate to lose you, but we, I, I understood it, but Reddit didn't.

Shocking, right? They didn't, they didn't like it. So I just wanted to go there. Can I tell a story

about the internet and how it does not reflect reality as it relates to Moon River? So as you

guys know, in 23, we had a headliner that had to back out for health reasons a week before.

Had to back out and they didn't just back out of Moon River. They backed out of a string of,

you know, a whole fall run for, for totally legitimate reasons. So we spent 48 hours

on the phone, seeing about availability of all sorts of different acts. Obviously with that much

lead time, it was very difficult. Our friends, a wonderful band, Need to Breathe, did us a huge

favor and solid and figured out how to get there, even though they had a show in Des Moines, Iowa,

the night before, which as you know, is not close to Chattanooga. It's not. Yeah. So this, this is

like, I'm gonna, this is my only proprietary information I'm going to drop on your podcast.

Okay. So we, we announced, we announced that just like they, just like Camp had on their socials,

we announced their cancellation with, we, we waited, you know, we basically had to wait 24

hours because we wanted to make sure we had somebody in place for it, which we did. And

according to social media and Reddit, no one was happy about this cancellation. I mean,

this, this replacement, right? The Instagram had like, you know, 60 or 70 negative comments,

very aggressive. Where we want our money back. We were coming to see Camp. We don't want to see

this other band. Well, so we set up an option for people to go online and fill out a form and get

a refund. If you had, if you had based it on Reddit and Instagram, you would have thought that

half the people going to Moon River were going to cancel two pieces of two facts. Nine people asked

for a refund. Nine, nine, nine people asked for a refund and need to breathe Saturday headlining

set, which we can track how many people are on site by the wristbands. They had the second largest

Saturday attendance in the history of the festival. There it is. Now that said, now that said, I think

it, there is this particular change is different in that I do think that this is a pretty different

change. It's it, you know, the boat sort of appeals to a smaller segment of people than,

than Chattanooga and Chattanooga is experiencing a loss, a culture loss. And I think that is a fair

thing to grieve and we are sad about it as well. But instead of just letting it go away

indefinitely until some magic space appears, which might happen. We hope it does.

We're not just going to like let this beautiful thing go away. Thank you for that story, by the way,

Drew. Yeah, thanks for sharing that. I bet those nine people had nothing to do with the cancellation.

They were probably like, I need money for exactly. I spent all that money. In fact,

they'll probably need to reach fans. My cousin's wedding. That's probably like my cousin,

my cousin decided to get married and now I can get a refund. They were drunk. They were drunk

when they bought the tickets. Seemed like a good idea six months ago. Yeah. I wanted to tie the,

this whole thing together a little bit. Cause like I said, at the beginning, I want to kind of the

evolution of the industry. Moon river was the first time I had heard the phrase boutique festival.

And I don't remember if it was you, Jeff, or you drew who, who, who told me that. But it's kind of

the, you know, Bonnaroo when it came on line was the everything festival, 80, you know,

thousand people. And it was huge and it had all kinds of different music. And that was the thing.

And it was camping was the thing. And then the boutique festival was sort of the smaller version,

the 10,000, the 12,000 people with a finer, finer tuned, if you will, or more specific lineup,

right? Kind of to that, what you said, Jeff, earlier about the boats, the passion, people are there for a

specific reason. And so that's kind of what the boutique festivals became, right? They were more

specific to an area and a type of music, maybe, right? Yes. I mean, I don't want to say AC

pioneered this because we, I don't think we did at AC at the time where we thought we were,

but that was a lot of the goal. We saw a lot of opportunity with looking at some of the smaller

things we could curate, be a little bit more creative within a space in a community. And I

remember our initial conversations and talking with Drew and Paul and the whole team about, you know,

bringing back Moon River and bringing it even to Chattanooga. And that was the thing that made it

so special. You know, I never had the opportunity to go to Overton Park and see it down there in the

shell, the love it showed down in Memphis. But I know of, I mean, having those original conversations,

having lived in Memphis for four years, some of the challenges with that and some of the

opportunity we would have to be able to do the Chattanooga and even continuing my conversations

coming to Six Man, it was one of the first things I thought of, of what I think would be special in

a place. And Drew and Ellie and the neighbors and what they have been able to kind of cultivate in

that space, it really is, it's truly something special in that community side of things. And

I can say this, Drew, even looking at you, it inspires me on a daily basis to think about how

do we, you know, it always takes more than a special sauce and takes a special person

to go about it. But that truly is kind of where it gets unique. And I think there's a lot of fun.

And I hear Drew in terms of the grieving process, I grieve at leaving Chattanooga.

But one of the things that I can rest upon a little bit on our shoulders as Six Man is keeping

that magic and keeping the fun things that we have the ability to do. And I translate some of the

things like the river. Well, now we're on the ocean climbing wall. We've even got the climbing

wall. How do we integrate Tennessee elements into it and the opportunity to do those pieces

and to keep some of that the same? And that excites me because I think there, I do not think I know

there's that opportunity. I'd love to add to one of the interesting things that's I would say that's

cool about the boats that it's not true of a land festival. Typically for a festival, all the acts

that are playing on Saturday, come in Saturday, play their set, maybe hang out, see one or two

sets and then they roll on to the next venue to the next city. And so if you're playing on

Saturday, you're 5% chance you're sticking around for Sunday and vice versa. If you're playing

Sunday, you're coming early. And so while there's this community feel happening on the other side

of the stage, it's not as easy to make it happen with a festival on the artist side of the stage.

What's cool about these festivals is that the artists are on the boat the whole time too.

And so some of my favorite memories are like I'm down in the casino and wow, Lucinda Williams is

playing slots. Hey Lucinda. And then there's all this musical interaction that happens. One of my

favorites was we were on K-amo and Jeff Tweedy and Mavis Staples were two of the headliners.

And Ellie and I were in charge of a sort of Sunday gospel brunch show and we had six or seven acts

and I'm emceeing and playing in it. And I look over to the artist area on the left and I see

Mavis watching the show from a chair in the artist area. And her tour manager comes up to me as I

come off stage while somebody else is playing and says, hey, Mavis wants to know if she can do a

song. I'm like, um, yeah. No, not today. We're tight on time. So Mavis gets up there, no guitar,

no nothing, just leads a sing along by herself. And then she stays up on stage for the finale of

I Saw the Light and she and I are sharing a microphone together. I mean, that's the kind

of stuff that happens on these boats. I just got chills. Every few hours. It's, it's, um,

it's, it's incredibly unique. Drew, if you don't mind, um, can we go backwards?

You started professionally playing 2002, three ish, something like that. Um, 2003. Yeah. Yeah. So

it's 2014, 2013, let's say 12, 13, 14. What in the world makes you want to get into the

festival organization business? It was sort of two, twofold. Um, I felt like my hometown,

Memphis was sort of an underserved place and I, everywhere I went, people had these preconceived

notions about the city and I wanted to be a part of sort of telling that story in a better way.

I also really loved festivals and this was around the same time that there were artists,

a lot of artists doing these sort of artist centric festivals. So Mumford had just done

Gentleman of the Road in like six different cities. Um, Lucero had this thing in Memphis called the

Family Picnic every year. Grace Potter was doing Grand Point North. Um, David Brothers had an

annual event in North Carolina. And so I just thought, well, why don't I do that in Memphis?

And we'll just have a little bit of a family reunion of sorts. And there's this beautiful

venue there called the Overton Park Shell where Elvis played his first public show.

And they allowed us to rent it out. The city was great there as well, helping us logistically. At

the time it was just me and Paul and Sam, my manager, super married to each other. And I mean,

it was so homegrown that two hours in, we realized we had run out of change for the, for the food and

beverage. And Ellie, we had to send somebody to the dog track in East and it was a Sunday,

send somebody to the dog track over in Arkansas to get change from the casino because all the

banks were closed. So it was very homegrown. You can hear that extended story on an earlier

episode. Oh, that's right. I did tell that. I told that and I wasn't there. I was like four

cases of water or something. You're thinking it would cover the whole weekend or something.

But yeah. And then what about the, the idea to move it to Chattanooga four years later?

How did that come together? Yeah, well, basically in Memphis, we, I, my managers and I basically

realized we were risking our personal homes every year of throwing this festival. Just financially,

we were not in a place that we were realizing that we weren't being very wise with our, you know,

with our exposure there. And in the meantime, a festival had started in Memphis that was very

well backed financially called MIMFO, which is a great festival as well. And we didn't really want

to go toe to toe with deep pockets. So we thought about just put this weekend as a matter of fact,

but yeah, sorry, go ahead. Yeah, that makes sense. Well, and we had a great relationship with AC

Entertainment out of Knoxville. They'd been promoting our shows in Nashville and Atlanta

and Knoxville and Chattanooga. And they said, well, would you all be interested in talking about

potentially moving it? And they felt like Chattanooga specifically had reached out and was

very open to an idea. And at that point, like to the boutique question, the idea of starting a

festival when you have an artist with an audience who sort of leads the charge, it automatically

creates sort of credibility, you know, in the market. We already had a pretty good fan base

in Chattanooga, obviously, but even Knoxville, Atlanta, Birmingham, Nashville, all the sort of

surrounding markets and cities. And so because we basically, you know, took on working with AC

because they were willing to take the risk, as long as we were willing to take the ride with them.

Yeah, plus they had a guy that would do all that worry about the money and the words.

Yeah, it's a guy named Jeff.

Got some guy named Jeff. Hey, do this.

We did give a fair look at, you know, even just outside of just like other places in this,

like where could we go that could accommodate to because it wasn't, I know when we're having

those conversations, like is there, you know, is there an explanation? We were still doing,

I think at that time, we were still doing live at the garden as well. So it definitely had some

basis. But yeah, the Menfo conversation definitely came into play and just where we thought there was

opportunity. And yeah, Chattanooga was it.

I wanted to add one more element. The boutique, and you said unique. The other thing you said to me,

Jeff, I know this was you in talking about these smaller boutique festivals that people wanted an

individual or a special experience. They didn't want to just see the band. They could see the

band in an arena or, you know, a different thing or a different type of festival. They wanted that

by the river in downtown Chattanooga type of thing, where they felt like they got something

different. Right. I remember you saying that was a big part of and I can imagine the cruises take

that to the next level, like you said, Drew, where you're sitting next to Lucinda playing slots.

I mean, you don't get that everywhere.

No, you don't get to go into the buffet line and get cheese sticks at two o'clock in the morning,

you know, with some of your heroes. Like it just doesn't happen. And as Drew mentioned it,

the magic that we see is you're there. And some artists take it as a chance, and their

families can be there. So they're having a little vacation experience too, but it's like, hey,

I know this is going on. I'm a fan of this. So let me go watch, let me go jump in and participate.

It's the natural, we allow for those natural opportunities to happen. And a lot of this stuff

does not force it is just purely, you know, musicians and fans just coming together. It just

naturally occurs.

Does it always work, Drew, as an artist? Are there those uncomfortable moments where a fan

gets a little too fanny, a little too handy, a little too close?

I mean, of course.

Yeah, I was about to say surely there is that.

A stand.

I think it depends. I mean, I will say that's one of the things that's so beautiful about our fans

is we have, I bet we probably have one of the lowest percentages of that of any artist of our

stature or higher. We just, our fans are pretty wonderful folks, but everybody has their

awkward moments.

Brian brought it up, but I go a little bit deeper. Jeff, these cruises you guys do,

I mean, you've done comedy, you've dWhat Podcasts, Broadway, food, TV and film,

sports, like you mentioned already with the bananas.

And let's see, I wrote it down 74, 16 events over 74 nights.

Didn't you have your best year ever last year? Did I read that right?

That is correct. Yeah, we had our best year ever last year. And this spring,

the spring of, we're in 2025 right now, was our biggest spring ever in terms of overall nights,

because part of our model is, I mean, essentially we're renting the ship.

I mean, just think about just like we rented Coolidge Park, we're renting the ship

from Norwegian and to, you know, even though we're renting the ship, the economies and all of the,

you know, the behind the scenes budget counting and the cheats that we have to keep up with there,

one of the efficiencies is being able to turn it. So, you know, we'll have one event happening.

And as we come back into to port and dock, where those fans are coming off of a ship,

and we're basically putting a new event on and rebranding the entire thing. And I'm talking down

to like casino fence, because the goal is to make it feel like you're walking into an environment

that is dedicated and specifically just to you. So, I mean, down to the chips to some of the,

you know, we talk about items that, you know, that they're being served from food that could

be inspiration from childhood, what grandma made to everything. It really gives the opportunity

for us to kind of dig in deep and get more personal to kind of help share that part of it.

And that's where the passion comes into play. So regardless of what the event may be,

we can go deeper and longer because of, you know, because the opportunity we have there.

But yeah, that is we did 74 straight nights. I think it was over a course of 119. If I'm not,

I'm not looking at a sheet right now. But yeah.

And who's conceiving the ideas? Do the banana folks come to you? And speaking of the banana,

I can't help but keep seeing you in that banana suit at the end of Moon River,

telling everybody goodbye.

I still have it and you may see it again. If you join us.

We better see it again.

Yeah. You don't want to wear that just once.

No, no, no. It was fun.

But who's, did they come to you or you got your staff, you guys are coming up with the ideas?

It's a combination. I mean, I do have a business development team that we're

constantly looking for things. And as you can imagine, I want to say it's not the easiest.

So, cause I mean, it's a lot. We ask a lot of our partners, you know, to help and curate and be a

part of these events. And Drew's experiencing this now in terms of like all of the different

questions that we have to ask because we have these opportunities to get really deep and it

becomes a lot. So we're going out and searching, but yeah, they're because we now have such

longevity within the business. And I think we've gotten past a little of that stigma of,

I mean, I can say it, there used to be back in the day, you know, a stigma of one, just cruise

ships and then two being a performer on cruise ships. Like, you know, that's where my career goes

to die. And I think we've been able to erase that and showcase the fact that no, we'll take care of

you. You're going to have enough, you're going to have an amazing time as artists and your fans are

going to have an amazing time. And it really takes away a lot of the challenges that a, you know,

once you get there, it's all taken care of. Like it's, it's so easy as compared to another event.

And it's something that kind of drew me in a little bit too is, you know, being responsible

for events, you know, that are doing, you know, a hundred thousand plus people, that's a lot.

And there's something in that power and there's something joy from that power, but getting back to

2500 to 3000 people in a space that you really are working with the most passionate bunch.

It just, it just does something different. It captivates you in a different way.

Well, Jeff, I hear, I'm hearing you in a, in a, a professional broadcaster, podcaster, video,

auger, whatever would skip across the question that I already had a block of to ask you that

you basically just answered. But I want to stick on it just for a second, because the negativity

of cruises is real. Like that, that's on, and it might be Reddit, right? So maybe it's not as real

as we think, but I'm one that's conditioned to think a cruise, are you kidding me? After all the

things I've heard since I was in my mid twenties and it's kind of like a, a baseball umpire and

official in sports. Well, they, something goes terrible and everybody thinks they're horrible,

but usually they're pretty good. Actually. What do you run into that with artists? Oh, oh yeah.

Yeah. I, I go back to Drew's comment. The internet sucks.

And people don't know what they're talking about. Um, once you go on and actually experience it,

you're like, oh my God, like, why was I not thinking about this beforehand? Why did I listen to

that negativity that's being put out there? Um, because I mean, I, you know, this is, this is not

enough to land festivals. All of us here have used a portal at, that's not a good experience.

The nicest portal, even the crowd pleasers are still not as nice as the fact that you can be on

deck seven and realize, you know, Hey, it's, it's that time and I'm going to skip back to my cabin

and have, you know, my, my experience. Yeah. Or that experience where I've had a, maybe I've

had too many adult beverages and I need to go take a nap. Uh, so I can go make, you know, and,

and be present. You can go do that now. Yeah. Are we moving? And does that kind of come into play

a little bit? But I mean, these are, these are small cities that are floating. Uh, so a lot of

that goes away. So I, I too, and I can, I can honestly say this. I had been on, well, I wasn't

a coast guard for a little bit, but then I'd been on one cruise my entire life. And I think I was

like 16 years old. I don't remember it. My first real cruise as an adult was after I already took

this job. Um, I got on and I was like, I get it. I, I won, I mean, I already take, taken the gig.

So I was, hopefully that was going to feel that way. But I was like, I get it. You, all of that

negativity, all of those preconceived notions all go away. And we do a lot of ship tours sometimes

with artists to kind of show them where they're going to be staying and things like that. And it

is the, is the biggest, I mean, it's like the number one commentary. It's like, oh, I had no

idea. It could be like this. I had no idea. This is the kind of accommodations and where I'm going

to be saying I had no idea. Um, and so it is a lot of it's erasing it. And, and I would say,

fortunately with the reputation that we've had and we built over the years is, is, you know,

we've got evangelists like, I mean, true. He's even saying it's like as many times he's been a

rock boat, Kiamo, you name it. And we, he's still coming back. So, so I guess we're doing

something right. And in erasing some of that, some of that negativity stigma up there.

Yeah. And I'll even say, Brian, uh, when I first did the rock boat, I had that mentality. I was

planning on, you know, going through all of life without being on a cruise ship. Um, you know,

and then, uh, I heard about these things and some friends of mine had done them. And, um,

so we got invited and I went and I was like, I think I could do this every year. This is pretty

fun. Now, you know, that, that said what makes six man so special is that it's not just like

a normal, it's the opposite of a normal cruise. I mean, um, the, all the, the music is, is incredible.

There's basically music, you know, from noon to two in the morning. Um, and you get to see,

yeah, I, I just remember that so many moments where like sitting as an artist, just watching

other, other shows sitting there going, Oh, there's, do I go see Dawes in the theater or,

um, you know, John Prine on the pool deck? Yeah. It's like that that's pretty cool.

Problem. Well, and just to clarify too, cause of, of, I've not never been on one.

These cruises have most of the same amenities as any, I'll say carnival cruise, cause that's the

commercial I remember my whole life. If you don't want to go see music and you just want to take a

dip in the pool, right? That's still there too. Like all the things that come with the cruise

are also there. Am I correct there? I guess you've got, you've got, you've got a specialty done.

You've got the spa on some of our other ships. Um, you can, you know, ride a go-kart. Um, so yeah,

you've there's, there are definite, you can do those things. I think the other part too is you're

with your people. That's the other beautiful thing. It's not like you're, I mean, you are with, you

know, you may not know everybody, but everybody is there for that one common thing. Same thing.

Yeah. And they're there, you know, to see an experience and for the love of what this is.

So regardless of your, your political views, your religious tasks, whatever it may be,

everybody on that ship has this one thing in common. And that's the experience they're about

to have with, you know, with the artists that are on stage and, and that piece of it, and that right

there, you, you immediately have best friends. And that's what we consistently see. And why

I thought of moon river when, you know, when, when, when joining six man, because of that community,

I saw it. I mean, I got to experience it firsthand. It's the thing I fell in love with.

What we built was everybody that was there was so passionate about drew on stage, about Ellie

reading children's books over, you know, over by the fountain and all of that, all of that,

that piece that the beer we were drinking, you know, being from Memphis, you know, why is acre?

Like all of those things made it so special and together. And I'm like, I know we can create that.

I know we can capture that community because it's about these passionate people being together. And

if we can just get them together, the magic's going to happen because I know, you know, the

curation from the artist side and the line up and stuff that's put together, they already have their

magic as well. So let's, let's, let's keep it going. That leads right into my question, Drew, you,

I know, curated pretty much the moon river lineups before you did this one, I assume. And was it a

hard sell getting those guys to go on a cruise? No, I mean, a lot of the folks that we booked have

done some of the other cruises, old crow is a six man veteran. Johnny Swim is a six man veteran.

I believe Carney is a six man veteran. There were a couple of acts that we wanted to have on the

cruise. We've never done one that couldn't quite get you warm to the idea. That's okay. There were

sort of acts that were in the middle of the lineup. And, but no, I think that Jeff's not wrong. Six

man has completely changed the reputation of cruises within the music business. I mean, everybody

who's been around for any amount of time knows about six man, the work that they've done. They've

done train cruises, everything from John Mayer and train, kid rock to wrestling to, I mean, it's, it's,

it's, they've, they've definitely revolutionized that the, the sort of respect given to this sort

of idea. It's not a new idea to, to agents don't go, what's this cruise ship offer? They know about

it, you know, some still do. I gotta ask because they're local Monrovia is on the lineup. I was

going to ask the same thing, Drew. Are you familiar with this kid? I mean, he's not a kid,

but I mean, you familiar with this? I saw him, I saw him open for Josiah and the Bonnevilles

after Josiah toured with us as an opener and was immediately like, put a sort of pin in that. It's

like this, this kid is fantastic. And he's kind of on a rocket ship. So I know a rocket ship to the

moon or to the, to the Bahamas or wherever. I mean, yeah, it is wild stuff. I mean, he's not a native,

native. That's the whole part of the story. But he's from here down the road and we're still like,

really? What's going on with this guy? So that you're going to, I was going to say, if you're

not familiar, you'll, you will, you should be, and you will be, and you'll. Oh yeah. No, Brian and I,

when I say, if anybody's on the lineup, but I don't know who they are, I, I, you know,

then I would, that would probably make me somewhat of a liar.

Well, no, I didn't mean not, no, yeah. Yeah. I didn't mean you're booking,

booking acts, but that, that one, that's a huge ascend right there with, with the

Ovia. So huge. Plus the people with him, Tyler and Carl are really, I think Brian and I are probably

closer to those two than we are with, with, with him, but glad that I was thrilled when I saw that

on the lineup. That's pretty cool. Yeah. I don't know if this is so much a question is just asking

for comments, I guess, but what does it say maybe about the industry? If it says anything,

these things, and I'm thinking about the rain outs, the, the things that can go wrong at the,

at a Bonnaroo or many of the other festivals, you know, Bonnaroo, we lost. South star,

we got a lot of examples now. Too many, too many. And it can happen and it can devastate

a fan base and a, and the artist, I mean, there's nothing good about it. But with these things,

you have a little bit more control, right? It's a lot more control. You know, in the history of the

company, I think we've only canceled from a standpoint of weather one event, and that wasn't

because of weather. It was because it was Katrina and they sent the ship went to New Orleans to be,

to be housing. And then we were able to redo it at another point in time. But the beautiful thing,

it moves. So we're, you know, we're able to monitor weather and be able to look at those things and,

and make decisions on the fly for the benefit of the event and the benefit of the guests.

And a lot of times why we strategically pick the Bahamas and the Caribbean down there is because

you can, you can maneuver and do different things. And there's so many ports in all different places.

So there is contingency plans. There's also, I mean, as Drew mentioned, kind of like there's

the pool deck, there's the theater. I mean, we create venues out of spaces that are even

non-traditional on a ship. So we do create non-traditional spaces like Coolidge Park.

We're still doing non-traditional spaces just on a ship. But if there is, if there is weather,

if there's some rain, great. We've got an indoor theater. We can kind of shift some things around

and have the resources and the talent to be able to do some of those things. And that does help

that. You know, I look at the business, you're kind of, you kind of skirt around a little

barriers, but all of this stuff is, I don't want to say needed because I'm in the weather stuff.

I don't wish that upon nobody. That's a, it's, it's, it's bad. That's bad for business.

But from the different sizes and where they're at, like if we don't have this full ecosystem

from your smallest clubs, from your, your, your 50, 150 person venues all the way up to your arenas

and everything in between, I believe in, and Drew, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this too. I

believe that we need all of that for artists growth to build those fan bases so we can continue to do

this. And I think one of the things that scares me a little bit is I love the artist control with

the internet, but you still got to build a fan base. You still got to, I mean, I know Drew put

into work in terms of just like graduating from venue to venue to festival to doing all of those

things. And in my opinion, it is so vital and important to be a part of it because that's what

we need to in order for the health of this business. It is insanely expensive out there to do

anything. And we, we have to, I think come together as an industry more to help support our

artists and to do more so they can have a career and be, you know, have that longevity to give them

the time to build it because without it, I'm, you know, I don't know where things could go.

It drew along those lines. I haven't thought about it that way. We were kind of talking about the,

you know, it's fun for the artists as well. They get to ride go-karts and do all that, but what

does it mean to have this as an option? Not just because it's fun, but what does it mean to have

a cruise now as another option, as a place to play? Yeah. I mean, I think it's,

like I said, done a lot of these over the years, but never done one that was sort of focused on our

people. I mean, we have obviously made friends and people along the way on those different

rock boat and camel. I mean, the, you know, the challenges that the industry is facing

with outdoor events, both from a weather standpoint and from a sort of financial risk standpoint,

they're real challenges, as you guys mentioned. I mean, the number of festivals that have either

canceled or been really impacted by either one of those things. And then the third one is

in this era of music, the number of options are insane. You know, we talk about something like

as simple as the sphere, right? In Vegas, it's like, well, that doesn't affect our business.

Well, it does because now somebody spends their music budget on a thousand dollar tickets to the

sphere, thousand dollars to get two people round trip to Vegas, two nights in a hotel, and then

they play blackjack too long. So all of a sudden, their entire $5,000 live music budget is gone in

two days. And that's, it's also similar with, I mean, the big event arena and stadium business.

You see that people are spending lots of money on the few big shows. I went to Coldplay this summer,

everybody, you know, $500 a ticket and it was sold out in Boston. I was there the night before the

incident, but I was there nonetheless.

Damn it! Just missed it.

Just missed it. But there's only so much time and resource and especially in these sort of crooked

economic times where things are just a little bit, people are afraid of what the future holds.

They don't know, you know, what they're going to do. And you see the industry is going to

continue to have to adapt. And so we're listening to all of the sort of things that

are out there and then doing the best things that we can to control our circumstances,

which is we know we have a lot of fans who love the community of music that is surrounded with

us and Moon River that enjoy the kind of people that like, we always, great example of this,

security at Moon River is always like, wow, this is the easiest event of the year.

It's a pretty chill place.

Yeah, pretty chill.

I can see that.

So that's not random. That's because of the kind of music and the spirit of the music that we tend

to attract and book. And so I don't want to let those things just sit on the sidelines. We want

to stay in it. And this is a way we can do that. And it's a way that matches with our own history

as a band and our own story. And I think while it's a curveball, I think the people that take

a swing at it will be very pleasantly surprised that they'll experience that same spirit in a new

and different way. And who knows, maybe down the road, it's a both and. I mean, I can't express

enough how much I love the city and the people of Chattanooga. It's been a part of my story that I

never saw coming. Of the four cities in Chattanooga, I mean, of the four cities in

Tennessee, Chattanooga is the one that I knew the least amount of people and had the least

amount of history, but still had a pretty good history there. And this chapter, I hope, is just

one of many chapters in our story with Chattanooga. But we as people and as a band want to invite

people into community. Music is about that. And just because things are different for now,

doesn't change that sort of rock bed truth that we care deeply about our fans and want them to have

experiences with their friends and their family around music that, I mean, that help them tell

their own story and live into sort of the life they want to have. And it's an interesting time

to try to do that with other external factors that we cannot control. So. Long answer. Jeff, I want to

ask you. Long answer. I want to ask you, because I can't think of anybody else again, like I said

at the beginning, who can answer this. What's it like being in that room when a storm comes and you

have to cancel something? You were in, I was in Louisville at Four Castle, I think was it Sam

Smith that was on stage when that, I don't know what happened. We called him, it was still one of

the most freak storms I've ever. It was unbelievable. You went flying by us. I was with my daughter

and Brad Steiner, co-founder of the podcast, and he's drunk out of his mind and he's like,

oh, it just got colder. This is great. And then you go running by and the top of the stage goes

flying off and you're like, get out of here, get out of here. And I think I was with Grace again at

Bonnaroo. She was doing volunteers, so she had her walkie talkie and headset. And I think you came

over and said, everybody shelter in place. It's the Macklemore year. Yeah. Yeah. But what is the-

Yeah, so the cliched, we always want to be the fly on the wall, right, of these meetings,

of these discussions. Yeah. And I'm asking again, it's sort of to Brian's point about the Reddit,

everybody thinks they know what happened and everybody's immediate reaction is they just

did it because they're cheap and they're saving a buck and they don't care about fan-

The fan nation doesn't care about anybody. Yeah. So what-

Speak to that. I can, I'm happy to speak to it because the, again, the internet and what they

decide to talk about is ridiculous at times. The number one thing that we are concerned about in

that room is fan safety. I mean, it's the safety, not just fan, the safety of everybody who is there.

That is our number one concern. And no one in that room takes it lightly that whatever decision

that we make, if it goes wrong and we're wrong, you're playing with people's lives. And that is,

that's so like that, to have that weighing on you is really is an immense weight. And so you kind of

ask yourself when thinking about stuff and presented all the information, there are certain

SMPs and protocols, you see a certain thing. It doesn't matter. Like the decision's made for you,

but you look at it and you're like, if I do this wrong and now I delay or I waste time and delay

making a decision, that could cost someone's life. And am I willing to take that and own that?

And that is, I would say that the main thing, it has no one. I mean, we just talked about the

economics. Having a festival go dark for an hour, unload them and then reload them in,

the amount of money you're losing off of that. So I mean, if you're really talking financials,

that's going to be the worst part of the decision is doing that. It always comes back to safety.

And what, based on all the information that we have, and I would say from everywhere, I mean,

we've got the weather services that you pay for, you've got people like, I love talking to farmers.

I think farmers know more about the weather than anybody and bringing in those experts in the space

to provide the right information to say, okay, what can we do safely? And then I can speak to

the Bon Russe, that is the saturation of water. Where's that water going? What's that going to

mean? Because they're not, fans aren't thinking about the fact of like what if a car needs to

get in and out and if a car can't get in and out because it's stuck. And if you've got 50,000

automobiles that are now stuck, what does that mean in terms of resources and safety and emergency

services? So, I mean, regardless of the space and we speak to Moon River, if you have an evacuation

at Coolidge Park, the majority of your people are having to cross that bridge.

How long is it going to take someone who's in a wheelchair to make it across that bridge if we've

got lightning and heavy storms coming along the way? So those are all the factors that kind of go

into and no one takes it lightly. Everyone is very well aware of the responsibilities placed in their

hands when it comes to the safety of everybody on that site. And that's how it goes. And you know what?

I've never made a bad call. And when I say a bad call, I mean a call that I regret. I always say

that every call that I've ever made is still, I'd make it again 10 out of 10 times. Now, I've made

some calls where it didn't, you know, storm takes a shit, whatever may happen. And you know, the

thing didn't happen, but I will still stand by, doesn't matter based on what we had, if it had

continued on its current trajectory or done whatever it sounded like, we could have re-tabbed it.

That one you mentioned it at Forecastle, that was one of the scariest ones I think I've ever

been a part of because it was one of the most beautiful nights I think I had ever been a part

of on any site. And when we got the call from our weather monitoring service, they were like,

you have minutes to get people out of there because this thing came out of absolutely nowhere.

I believe it just how it formed, it wasn't seen. And I mean, we all saw the damage of what happened.

I mean, the fact that we were able to open the next day was a testament to that, that whole team

that we worked tirelessly to rebuild and get ready for it. But yeah, it's an extremely difficult

thing to do and nobody wants to make that call. But it always comes down to safety. So I hated

seeing people walk up to me like, my weather app says this. I'm like, great. I'm happy that, you

know, your $2 app or your free app says that the storms are going to do this. You're worried about

yourself and your investment into the show. And so am I, but I'm more concerned about your life

and the life of everybody who's entrusted us to be here today.

Drew, you had to do a very similar and to kind of to Jeff's point that day, that Sunday and Moon

River, the weather was clear, not clear. Oh my God, it was beautiful on that Sunday,

but all that rain, all that rain was already there. But the site was wet. And the Saturday,

I guess, when we cleared, I mean, not only are I guess you're in that room making the decision,

Drew, but then you pick up a guitar and go out and entertain the crowd for a while. So

it could have, I can only imagine how stressful that whole thing was.

Yeah. I mean, I'll be honest with you. I actually was not in the room making the decision because I

was out on the curb singing. Better decision. Yeah. That was a, that was a, that was a hard

day for me. I mean, it was a tough decision, you know, especially tough when I wasn't in the room

and yet my name was on the decision because it's my festival. And so I'm taking the heat and that's

why I demanded basically the pivot to Soldiers and Sailors. I said, find me a space in the city

right now. I'm throwing a free show. Because it was true. That was a tricky one because the weather

was gone, but the site was wrecked. And it was, and it didn't happen the day before the festival or

like it was happened. People were like waiting out and they're like, the sun is shining.

Yeah. It was an overnight, it was an overnight storm for those that don't know. And then we

woke up and all waited like any hour now we're getting to go in and then like 20 to 12 hours

later, we still can't go in. Yeah. No, no, no, actually that's, it was both. It was an overnight

and then there was an afternoon two inches in an hour. Oh, is that right? I'm sorry. I'm forgetting.

Yeah. You could see it coming. That's right. That's I'll never forget because I was,

I went and got a tattoo thinking like this will, this will, this will cross the street with the,

with the moon. Where were we? I don't know where it is right here. Nice. I made my moon river tattoo.

That was really quick. And then I went back over and I was like, okay, we're gonna go like, no,

people, we got some decisions to make. And I was like, well, there's, you know, a thousand people

standing at the gate. I'm gonna go out there and sing for them. And then it came back in and,

and decisions had been made. So that pivot that, you know, thankfully the team was willing to sort

of meet me in my frustration and help me pivot to put something on that night. And then basically I

was personally calling any of the artists, don't leave town yet. Can you please stick around?

And we're going to play this, this event. So, you know, I think at the end of the day,

anybody who's been in those rooms has to understand that there is, like Jeff said,

the priority is safety. And then after that, you know, the priority is, is, is making sure

that the experience is, is, I mean, if you have a, a boundary a couple of years ago,

the site got completely wrecked, you know, to, obviously Jeff and I were not involved in that

by that point. But when you can't have emergency vehicles get in and out of a site with a hundred

thousand people, that's not a safe environment for anybody, much less getting production in,

getting food in. I mean, these are logistical challenges. And while Coolidge Park is an

incredible place, it presents some very unique logistical challenges. So there's, there's,

you kind of wish that everybody who is a part of it would, would trust the spirit of everybody

who's making these decisions, that this idea that it's all about money. I mean, our partners took

a bath when we canceled that Sunday, a financial bath, because they made sure that everybody got

a refund because we weren't able to pull it off. So that narrative is just like, I think you also

get to a point where you go, okay, while I believe that whoever's saying that and frustration is

coming from a place that they get, they're angry. I can't listen to that noise because I know that's

not true. That's not actually true. Right. Well, you guys, the listening can go back again. We did

a whole podcast with Drew and some of the city people and the auditorium people. And the fact

that you gave the refund and the fact that you did that show. I mean, it did, it went a long way

to fixing some of those feelings. And, and we've sat on here, Brad Parker and Corey Smith being so

active on social media and coming on our show and talking about it. It kind of put a human face on

Bonnaroo this past year that I think kind of eased some of that anger and that angst, but

the pricing on this, on this festival, Moon River at sea, a lot of different options,

are there all inclusive nature to any of this? Just to speak to the pricing, if you would,

for those who are, who don't know. Sure. It is. So one thing's I love what we do. There's no

stratification. You're not talking about like VIP, super VIP, all that kind of stuff. It is

purely about cabin type. So if you want more of a, you know, if you're like, I'm not going to be in

my cabin because I'm going to be out either listening to music and having fun or playing

the slots. Then, you know, you have your interior options and you go all the way up to, you know,

suites where you've got a little bit more comfort. You have a balcony and you have that. So it,

it varies based upon that. Also for this event, thirds and fourths for children are taxes and

fees. So if you have, if you bring your kids for it and they're your third and fourth passenger in

your cabin, they're, they're taxes and fees only. There is the opportunity to purchase a beverage

package, but all of your food outside of specialty dining is included. All of the music, all of the

everything programming we have going on, all included. If you want to consume adult beverages,

there's a package for that, or you can go one by one. Your choice spa stuff is extra and things

like that. But if you truly look at the value of getting there and basically all of that being

there, and I mean, it's an international vacation. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better

value out there. And that is even comparing going to other multi-day events. It, it, I think there's

always a little bit of a sticker shock because you, if you compare it to another, other style,

and it's like, ah, that's only a couple of hundred bucks, you know, times two or three people,

whatever it may be. But then you start factoring in, okay, I may have to fly or I may have to drive.

I still have to get hotel. I still have to do all of those things. Once all of that stuff adds up,

you know, it, I mean, Drew was even talking about, it's like the sphere, you know, you just,

you could spend a lot of money. Whereas this is your vacation. You're getting a full festival

experience, multiple stages, multiple artists, and the comfort of not having to use a port light.

So there are plenty of options and no port-a-chans. So we're good. We're good there.

I think I, I mean, I think I speak for both of us that we love the community that's been a part of

this and, and, and a lot of the talking about the, the sort of triumphs and tragedies of putting on

festivals, which is a lot of what you guys talk about. And I mean, at the end of the day,

we both love music and we love the people who love music and I'm excited to sort of give this,

give the, keep this thing alive by trying something new.

I want to just confirm you did say there is maybe a chance it comes back to Chattanooga if we can

find the right venue. I mean, we're certainly not giving up on, on, on that. Yeah.

Nice. Jeff, final thoughts.

Come sail with us. This is your community. Moon River fans, please, you know, come with us because

it's the magic of, of all of us being together. And, you know, I can say, this is one of those

fun ones. I could say as a fan, I am so excited about this event. I can't tell you how, you know,

even just, even just, just being here with you, it truly is one of these moments of being able to do

something that I love and being a part of. And I, I, I am excited to see all the fans back together

and this community enjoying what we enjoy most with, with the beautiful thing that, that,

that Drew has built. Well, I can say, I'm pretty sure you two are the most frequent guests that

we've had on the show. You've both been always very willing and able to come on and answer questions

on or off. And I, I can't thank you enough for that. Always.

Thanks for having us.

Jeff, Drew, thank you so much. We appreciate it.

All right, guys, that's, this is why we do this podcast. This is why I do this podcast. That was

amazing. That's the inside baseball stuff is so much fun. And those guys have been sources,

great resources for years and years. So what's your quick takeaway?

It's, I mean, it's a phenomenon of sorts. It's the, it's not new, but it's really picked up in

popularity in the last half decade. I meant to try to weave it in, but I couldn't figure out how the,

also the destination, uh, vacation, you know, gatherings like panic in La Playa and, uh, uh,

this year in Miramar, Florida, my morning jacket, those kinds of things. That's also become quite

popular. Similar thing, except it's not a boat, right? But you're still doing the same kind of

thing. Um, it makes the on land, Bonnaroo type of experience seem like it could be in trouble

long-term, long, long-term, because I mean, it's, if all goes well, which most of the time it does

on these cruises, it's pretty damn nice. It's a pretty good situation. I knew that I've never

done it before, but I, I did believe that. Um, so I, I don't know. I, I think it's a great idea.

I think it's a, it's a, it's a huge swing. It's a huge ask and transition. It's a, it's not guaranteed

to work, but I think it's, I think it's worth the, um, the, uh, the attempt. Yeah. To me, that was,

uh, it does sound like a lot of fun is a takeaway. Uh, it's very specific. You know, you gotta like,

you gotta like the lineup for sure. These things gotta be, uh, lineup oriented as a fan,

but also it just speaks to the, the industry trying to find a place, um, and a way to

have some control over things they can't control, like the weather and costs and all those types of

things. So I thought it was interesting for him to say it is a, another piece in a large puzzle of

opportunities for the bands. I hadn't really thought of it that way. Yeah. And we mentioned

the ones that people are more familiar with, especially Bonnaroo, but like you, the, the

forecastle story and then the moon river day weather event. Well, we also had our other

festival that we lost had an, had a day wiped out or half of it wiped out too. And so like it's,

that most people don't know about that because they wouldn't care, but how many do we not know

about smaller ones where that also happens and from county fairs to whatever else. And so like,

eventually you're going to have a promoter, you're going to have somebody, an executive, a suit say,

enough. Yeah, we're not doing this anymore. Speaking of slots and sitting in a casino,

these are gambles that I'm not sure that, that the people with the pockets full of money

are going to continue to do. So it's nice to know that there are lots of different,

different options. I'll never go, I'll never rather be on a boat than be in a field. Sure.

Myself, all things being, we'll say equal and, and desirable. I will always rather be on a land,

a plot of land or a city, you know, on a city center than I want to be on a boat. But I don't

know. Yeah. Put me on a boat. Maybe I'll change my mind. Sorry, Tago. Yeah. How do I get the bus

onto a boat? Cause I don't want to do it unless I can camp, you know, I'm thinking of the Titanic

when they're driving the, the model T's, the rich people, the model T's on the Titanic.

Barge. That's next. Use it on a barge. I know it's a great idea or a very, very bold and,

and I believe good idea. Lineup wise, it depends on who you ask. It's, if you stack them up against

all his past lineups, I'm just sorry to say it's not as good. It's not as good as some of these

other ones were. But they're all, it's the same thing. It's the same genre. It's the same kind

of people. It's the same kind of vibe. It's the same kind of ethos. I thought the lineup looked

great. I thought I was, it just made me a little sad. I was like, man, this would have been so good

at Coolidge park in Chattanooga. This is exactly what we should have had here. Just one man

speaking, but sure. So that's a, the challenges that they just spoke of for nearly an hour,

it goes way beyond even that. So good on them for doing it. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Any other,

any other news that we know of any other thing we want to mention? I think we're good. Just

coming up. Yeah. Yeah. Next week, you know, we're going to be at the caverns. I'm going to try to

do some stuff there. We've already reached out and hopefully get some stuff set up. So

cave fist is a all bluegrass speaking of lineups, not necessarily my thing. I know it's

beating over the head with this stuff, man. We've got three sisters, bluegrass and Chattanooga

this weekend. So I can't month the bluegrass. I can't wait. I do want to say in case anybody

from mempho is listening, cause I know everybody within every boardroom is listening to this show.

I was planning on going to mempho speaking of, uh, uh, uh, uh, drew bringing that up earlier this

weekend, widespread panics playing two nights and I, they, they took care of me for it,

but it's too close to cave fest and I'm kind of broke and Memphis, I don't, you guys who are not

from Tennessee, Oh, Memphis, just drive over there. Yeah. It ain't that no, that's across the state.

Yeah. It ain't that easy. And Memphis might as well be, you know, on another planet sometimes.

It is on another planet. So anyway, yeah, that's, uh, but cave fest is next. Looking forward to it.

Yeah. All right. Well, I always love talking to Jeff and Drew. Jeff has been so great. He's,

he's one of the original inside baseball sources for us and, and always has been, and he actually

helped facilitate getting Drew back on here. So thanks to those guys. Thanks to you guys.

Thanks to everybody listening and we will talk again soon.