The What Podcast
Mapping Out the Highlights and Conflicts of the Bonnaroo 2024 Schedule
Season 7, Episode 13
Published April 10, 2024
https://thewhatpodcast.com/episode/mapping-out-the-highlights-and-conflicts-of-the-bonnaroo-2024-schedule

In the life of a Bonnarooian, there are certain moments like sunset on Friday or Saturday

while you're sitting in the field in the witch or a sunrise on Friday or Saturday, no matter

where you are.

Or days like lineup release and schedule day that just sort of caused the heart to race

and the vibes to spike.

We got the schedule this week and we'll talk about that and we'll also take a deep dive

into Soberoo right now on the What Podcast.

You're always trying to do your best Don't worry about what happens next

Hey everybody, welcome back to the What Podcast.

It's one of the greatest weeks.

I don't know, is it second, third, whatever, one of the best weeks ever.

The week we get the schedule, the actual schedule.

Guys, it's almost like it's almost like the NFL how they stagger everything and you wait,

they do the schedule and the announcements and then then this it's kind of the same way

you're waiting for the next thing to drop and and the schedule was just a handful of

days ago and it yeah definitely exciting to see.

It's exciting.

It's also kind of disappointing because you look at the conflict.

That's why I was getting ready to say and we'll get into that.

Yeah, let's bring everybody and I'm Barry.

That's Russ Lord Taco and that's Brian.

This is the What Podcast.

This is where we talk about everything.

Bonnaroo Bonnaroo and the schedule comes out and like you just said Russ, this is where

we it is kind of like like it's like March Madness.

It's like NFL.

This is where you sit down with the grid in front of you and you start planning your week

which are dreaming.

You start dreaming and then you think oh there are conflicts.

I want to see that but I can't because I got to go there and you make your list and you

spread it all out and then you get on the farm and you throw it all away because it

never works out.

We all know it.

We love it.

That's why it's so much fun.

Brian usually I don't know when was the last time you did the laminated?

Have you done that every year?

Oh yeah for those who don't know I used to we all had our kind of thing we would you

know be known for bringing every year to camp and I would make the laminated schedules and

over the course of the evolution the way things have gone that one's kind of been a casual

tea.

I don't do it as much plus the phones and now being able to keep your phones connected

with full charge if you try hard enough people don't we don't really need those as much.

It was always a fun little addition but it was fun because we would hang it from a tent

pole and it would be hanging there and you could check it throughout the day.

It was great.

So and I had it wrong at the time because I was going to say was it ever correct?

The ones you wanted to see you got wrong.

I have missed the show because my damn laminated schedule was wrong.

Your own schedule.

It's kind of a flawed system.

It's all part of the lore so all right we've got a very lengthy and busy show we've got

a lot of little items that I want to get to first for example you guys both went to see

flip turn the other day and the question for long time listeners of this show that we want

to know is Russ did grandma show up?

I didn't see grandma there.

Grandma wasn't there.

Maybe next time yeah.

Yeah you remember yeah if you listen to our flip our interview with flip turn we asked

them why they chose to do the tears for fears song and I don't remember which member but

said that their grandmother was a big fan of the song and I've never felt so old when

I heard that.

You invited her to come to call you if I remember correctly which is pretty funny.

But it was a fun yeah it was fun the signal here in town and Chattanooga is a really nice

venue and boy they rock and there are a louder band than I expected which was very nice I

guess somewhat of a surprise for me I saw them at moon river but it was it was just

from a tail end and a festival set is always different than a standalone club so I was

gonna ask why was it different?

It seemed bigger they seemed like they went a little heavier yeah it was different to

me in the way that it should be they were catering to their fan their fan base a little

bit more they didn't play the tears for fear song which I actually was not expecting I

would expect that at a festival set just like they did right but they did cover strokes

yeah they did cover a stroke song which was cool and then yeah it was a fun time so thank

you to them and management involved for helping us make that happen.

All right and then I want to bring it up I'm excited my brother and I are gonna go see

Beat in late October at the Ryman Russ I'm gonna guess that's...

is this is this the King Crimson yeah iteration that is let's see Adrian Ballou is on this

and oh who's Tony Levin it's Steve Vai and Danny Carey Steve Vai yep wow Steve Vai yeah

and Danny Carey from Tool is gonna be doing the drums so Tony and Adrian from King Crimson

so very excited I want to go see that because I have seen King Crimson two or three times

in various iterations over the years and so I'm excited that there is a yeah this is certainly

more y'all's lane but if you're saying that Danny Carey and Steve Vai are there uh-huh

mind blown wow that's awesome that is that's yeah super that's a super group and Robert

Fripp is actually not only endorsing it but is sort of helping teach if that's the right

word Steve Vai how to play the guitar parts how do you yeah who is it Steve Vai needs

to be taught something go look up some article Robert Fripp yeah go look up some articles

he's given this thing his his blessing and I think he's the one that came up with the

name Beat that's correct as a reference to the uh I think it's the album that came out

in 1981 that is correct from there Steve Vai certainly played different style music then

I mean I guess I don't know I guess depends how you look at it but definitely from a little

bit of a different musical genre world than than King Crimson but yeah more of a shredder

I mean he's a shredder and could almost argue he overplays that guitar a little bit yeah

he's he's typically voted douchiest guitar player ever in a lot of polls which I think

is hilarious but he's also very good the other reason I bring that up is because my brother

when he got the tickets got the paid extra for the Ford VIP room what do you call that

extra you it's a you got your own entrance add-on thing yeah add-on you got food you

know high-end bar whatever and I was sitting with a bunch of guys who locally who run venues

here and they were talking about what a great idea it is and it sort of reminded me about

the whole Bonnaroo a la carte stuff and the fact that this is where we are now you just

don't buy a ticket anymore right and walk through the door and get in your seat and

sit and watch a show we we now expect extras at least at least the options and if you haven't

been to the Ryman in half decade certainly any longer than that it's a different experience

I mean the Mother Church itself you know the setting there you walk in you see a show that's

not different but the different options that you're speaking to now and the add-ons to

the to the old the storied building itself is pretty impressive it is a great place to

see a show at any time very excited for multiple reasons I'm excited to see that band and yeah

show but I want to go everything else I'll be there so yeah I fully expect to see you

there Russ I knew I would yeah one way or another all right so I wanted to bring all

that up Brian you had mentioned something 420 had a couple and had a little bit of news

this week right yeah I thought it was worth mentioning because it's such to me an unprecedented

pivot of what they've done down in it said Pullman farms or Pullman something quick Google

search and you'll find it Sweetwater 420 was one of the ones for years it was at Centennial

Park many times I think it might even been the same place as Shakinies before at Central

they've moved it around a few times and it's always it's a big jam band thing and put on

by the Sweetwater 420 brewing in Atlanta always enjoyed it went two or three times and they've

had some issues in the last few years COVID obviously being a big reason and and others

and they they tried to have a big revamp this year and Beck and slightly stupid were the

two main headliners there was a little there's a few more in there that that are not going

to be at this version but by all indications that I can see that that there's not a lot

of you know festival and and places that you would normally get a lot of your information

have really all the information you're going to find apparently things were just not done

well at all and about a month ago maybe maybe closer to six weeks but not long ago the lineup

hadn't even been announced yet and it's on April 20th and so that in itself had people

thinking what is what are they doing I mean they're selling 250 to 300 plus dollar tickets

on par with many other festivals a little bit smaller than some of the others but still

a sizable real festival and so there was just a lot of questions a lot of fans on the on

the threads wondering what's going on here then they announce it and by all indications

the tickets just were not selling at all I don't know if it's the unfamiliarity with

the with the new venue maybe the headliners didn't grab people Beck seems like it should

I mean personally I think slightly stupid is a pretty stupid band but that's just me

talking and so all of a sudden three or four days ago they just pivoted they just no warning

no hey big announcement coming they dropped the head the main headliner the black pumas

were dropped really anything that cost on the higher end back slightly stupid the three

that jumped in my head immediately they dropped a lot of that they went down to a single stage

weekend on the 20th and the 21st in Atlanta and it's now free it's free with a ten dollar

donation to whatever their charity they've tacked onto it and I've just never seen anything

like it and so for me on Saturday Grace Potter government mules st. Paul and the broken bones

there's no reason to go any further for ten bucks yeah right there oh the holy wow what's

going on here and then they have the trombone shorty on Sunday again memory only here can't

member anybody else but still a very nice lineup for an additional ten dollars never

seen anything so seen anything like it and a lot of people are just you know oh they're

terrible they don't know what they're doing a lot of the just the jerks on socials and

like took tickets didn't sell okay whatever the case may be rather than pull the plug

and just say we're done they've they've they've put together quickly something that might be

great or maybe not also depending on some other people I've talked to with a little

bit industry connections that wonder have they shrunk it so much and have so little

invested now that they don't really care about lines concessions entry right portal at portal

let's all the things that make a festival weekend great did how much are they having

to cost cut that was another angle that I hadn't quite thought about it's free right

if you don't like it leave go home I just find it to be a fascinating pivot that I've

never seen before and thought it was at least worth mentioning because at one time it was

a jewel of a southern festival can be interesting see how that plays out I don't know that is

no clue except everything we keep hearing like mentioned earlier just like with the

venues is it there's a lot going on everybody's trying to figure out where we're going so

yeah with the new organization the people who are organizers to the new venue it just

the insiders that I have and it's nothing but rumor and so there's I'm not going to

get a say it out loud on this because it's just not vetted and I don't know but it kind

of disaster is what most people are saying and to be able to try to throw this together

quickly and still have a show and not shut people out of a once beloved event I just

think it's a great try I mean it's a no lose situation if the other alternative is to cancel

then yeah give it a shot yeah so that that's April 20th in Atlanta the year off all right

so here we go the schedule came out this week we are not going to spend a lot of time on

it today this week for a couple of reasons one we have a already lengthy show we've got

a great interview with Patrick Patrick wheeling of sober who spent a lot of time talking to

him and probably could have spent another hour and a half or two hours talking to him

so we're going to dedicate most of that but we definitely want to touch on the lineup

the schedule as it came out and I would recommend if you haven't already going to the RooHamm

podcast those guys spent a good hour and a half of theirs are their own talking about

it you're going to need Google translator unless you speak 25 year old hipster lingo

which I don't I can decode it usually pretty well oh I'm half kidding those guys are amazing

I mean I don't know we did a show and you can go back and rush you'll link to it with

those guys where we kind of did a translator you know or the vibes how high the vibes are

they dropped a couple of new phrases on me this week that I had to kind of hit the pause

button and look up but anyway do it urban dictionary yeah the urban dictionary they

do a great job going through it all but we're going to go through quickly first impressions

a lot of any conflicts a lot of conflicts you guys happy with the schedule we think

go ahead Russ you start I've got a serious conflict and I guess it's not that serious

but overall it looks pretty good my biggest conflict is going to be Friday I'm looking

at late night T pain against the Mars Volta against thundercat why would they do this

to me yeah they're all lined up at the exact same time against me yeah yeah there's not

even any real crossover in that one is there almost none at all T pain at 1230 a Mars Volta

at 1238 thundercat at 1245 a so yeah you're there boom boom boom you got to you can do

them all but you're gonna miss if you're if you're a big fan I know Mars Volta is one

of them that you're gonna be the Mars Volta I will miss thundercat and T pain completely

yeah so you're you're a single show you're a single show guy single voter on this one

huh for this one it is yeah I understand that thankfully I've seen T pain and thundercat

I wanted to see him again but you know the Mars Volta wins so that's where I'll be for

that show for that time slot that was really the only big conflict I had everything else

I think I can either work around or bounce between yeah I don't have any conflicts because

the it was almost impossible to because the festival doesn't have enough music that I

have to see this year they have just enough each day to make me satisfied and none of

none of them butt up against each other pretty I kind of taking this from somebody I saw

post one of my friends on whatever social it was and it was a funny line and I don't

have it now but pretty lights basically somewhat leading into guar on Thursday night with that

starting at nine pretty lights go until about midnight could go later than that no telling

with him and then guar set for one now I don't know how much crossover there's gonna be there

because Fisher which we found out on our EDMS episode is also very big in that world and

they're on the other right after pretty lights so that there'll be a lot of crossover there

but pretty lights and then some guar I don't know if I can't I don't know how much more

I could do after that I would need I'd need a long long recovery well with guar going

till 2 a.m. that's so that's interesting so to me the schedule there aren't too many

conflicts not any real ones I'm like you Brian it first impressions I love the way it lays

out there's something for me to do and see pretty much every day pretty much all day

no no you know no bucket list things necessarily but Thursday lineup is now for real not just

a discovery as we've always called it you know Thursday is where we typically go find

the bands we've never heard of but now I want to see pretty lights and I want to see guar

so there are things on Thursday that are on my definitely oh and the Neil Francis comes

a lot Francis comes alive I'm curious about the what the Francis we all agree we like

and want to see the most is Thursday late also geese yeah we've talked about and the

heavy heavy which we got more than one right recommendation on the recommendation yeah

and several others they're at a very respectable Thursday time at 815 so that was that's something

I'd likely probably try to take a look at and and our guest mentions eggy which is two

o'clock on Thursday I've heard nothing but good things Michigander and I'm kind of curious

about say she she so again my point is Thursday is pretty not loaded but definitely a lot

of stuff I'm interested in yeah low loaded for how Thursday is normally in my mind would

be actually the correct word right me it looks it's and you know just pretty lights on the

what I mean I just I know I've said on this the last few weeks and I'm just kind of repeating

myself that's just such a game changer to me a hundred percent that that is like that's

the big thing this year that really is the Bonnaroo kind of stamp of here we're we're

always going to try to keep keep you guessing and keep doing things differently and I think

that's going to be wild and and I'm really excited and it makes for a long week I mean

it sure does but I mean it really does to my other point I'm looking at Sunday which

is typically I look at Sunday and think okay the headliner is great you know it's Foo

Fighters but what's going to keep me there all day until that starts and Sunday looks

pretty good yeah beaches Friday and Sunday are kind of my my days that have more spread

out through the day Saturday for me the the witch stacks up really nice with Brittany

Renee and cigarettes after sex all in an in in order I'll be in and out of each one of

those no doubt at East John but East on the what the Teske brothers surely will sound

as good as they've ever sound early in the middle of the day on the what now I would

like to couple of these not that day as much like on Saturday or excuse me Friday Gary

Clark jr. afternoon evening set on the which really would like to see him on the what I

think that that that loud blues bass rock sound would be great there but Larkin Poe

will start the day there Dominique Fike both are worthy of that stage but you could also

put Larkin Poe and Dominique Fike on a tent and no nobody would bat an eye at it so they

have reasons for why they do everything and I'm not questioning Maggie Rogers even very

excited like to see that on the what but 945 on the witch on a Friday that'll be a fine

place for her to be as well so right after krung been and if you want both mics they're

both on Saturday that early and this a little bit later on so if you're looking for Mike

and then Mike period Mike dot yeah Mike you get both like with no period right before

I'm do mock tar exactly on that tent on Friday and for me go to jump to Sunday quickly I'm

surprised to see milky chance get a what stage again they were there in seventeen on the

what and it was awesome I just heard of him brand new to me and I loved it and it feels

like their trajectory hit an apex a long time ago and has since fallen from that my thought

for sure would be a tent for them this year and they're on the what again so good for

them and it'll be great I'm just a little surprised there again and then after that

will be Carly Rae Jepsen I mean if you don't think I'm not hanging out at the what to at

least hear call me maybe call me a trendy poser just for want to see that sorry that's

what I am then because I've got to hear that on the what stage on Sunday russ any other

thoughts yeah it I'm good it lays out very well for me not just because of the acts that

I want to see but I'm also and I haven't spent a lot of time and we'll do this later the

reality and we've we've all done it enough that you know what I'm talking about where

you you're gonna sit down and you're gonna put check marks on the bands you want to see

and then you're gonna look at it again and then you're gonna sit down and you're gonna

say okay I'm gonna have to walk from this place to that place and it's gonna be two

o'clock in the after and I've already you know what I mean yeah you already know you're

not gonna make some of the yeah and I've already jumped to that a little bit with this one

and it lays out pretty well like Saturday there's some good camp time built in there

Friday the same there's a lot of topics that I want to talk to talk about that we'll get

into later like you know some people have talked about it doesn't go as late some of

the schedule doesn't go as late yeah that's all I've seen that chatter right seen that

chatter I will get into that there's plenty of time I think we'll get into that and maybe

maybe we can get some people on to talk about why you know is it a is it a staffing thing

is it a scheduling is it a band thing I don't know but that'll be an interesting conversation

yeah Saturday I agree is a little bit of a of a just kind of hang out and check out the

vendors and check out you know do a lot of people watching exactly just a lot of just

meandering and just just that's as much fun sometimes as a show so Saturday is gonna be

a good day for rest and Sunday you know I generally leave on Sunday but the beaches

are early see like green sky bluegrass and now I'm just talking about placements is on

the witch at 2 30 and the beaches are on this tent at 2 30 the beach is just one best new

artist or whatever they're one of the top artists for the Juneau Awards in Canada just

the other day so their their trajectory is very very high green sky bluegrass is you

know they plateaued out and what they are they are what they are and they're they're

great but you also could put green sky bluegrass on any tent on any time you wanted I would

have loved to have seen like hey beaches you guys think you're hot you think this is hitting

like you think let's throw you over here on on on the witch early or which happens all

the time I mean yeah give in a small band kind of throw him a bone and we're gonna throw

you in a bigger spot than maybe you even thought you'd be I would have loved to seen that switch

that's just me with my own preferences I don't disagree except I can see sitting on a blanket

or something in on the what feel which field with green sky and just chill o'clock on Sunday

and just chillin just chillin getting ready for what it's coming so I'm good with that

I mean it's it's not a wrong answer I don't mean that I just mean I they are the kind

of band who put I mean they're a festival band is what they do they will play I don't

my guess is they're not like we're not playing unless we're on you know they'll play anything

they played moon river they've been here I get what you're they play our three sisters

music festival I mean they are working festival band it will be great and it will be as chill

as it needs to be to get a day started those tents you know I'm just man that's the other

thing yeah that's difficult for me there's no sitting in those tents you know it's got

to really get in there and if it's a hot sunny day you're fighting with people who just want

to be in the shade yeah sometimes I can take away the best thing and we haven't really

talked about it the best thing Bonnaroo's done one of the things is add those big ass

fans in those tents that's a game changer and the screens are back y'all say right

screens will be back we talked about that here that was a heard you'll be back and the

big ass fans massive omission from last year so but yeah beaches I'll be there for the

entire time spending some time on the what on Sunday and then for me you know sorry EDM

fans Fred again I'll be I'll be at home and for streaming on YouTube I'll be watching

but is a bull on the which stage to close that stage out for the whole festival he'll

be the last one on the which a good one I mean you want to talk about sway into that

shit I mean that's just just keep it simple man which is what is a bull generally does

it's perfect perfect for me it's perfect all right so we'll like I said we'll dig into

the the schedule a little bit more we've got an interview right now with Patrick Whalen

one of the co-founders of sober who which I was surprised to learn started when the

festival started I don't know if you knew that Brian I thought it was about a decade

old but no I knew it was early I wasn't for sure it was day one and then I didn't know

at all because we had only had email correspondence that it his journey and all this started post

Jerry Garcia and that was seven years before Bonnaroo started and a lot was building in

the festival circuit at that time fish was starting to do beginning to do their big shows

and further the further festival and all those things so that was interesting to know more

about that it wasn't even a Bonnaroo idea that's just like so many other things that

might not have anything to do with festivals ideas are are born at Bonnaroo even if it's

just something from your regular life that has nothing to do because sometimes all you

got to do is sit around and you have to talk to your friends for an hour and a half because

there's it's too hot to go anywhere else so you better come up with something to talk

about and oftentimes some really great ideas come out of those those gatherings I love

I love the story he tells about how it became sort of official how what was her name Chris

yeah somebody from the festival rides up on a golf cart and says what are you doing yeah

and then and then with before he knows it he's helped me remember the name Rick Rick

Farman Rick Farman I mean yeah within a couple weeks he got him giving you a call you know

this is back early on this is the guy you know this if that live nation had a guy who

gave you a ring or sent you a text back then that's what this was that guy he's the founder

co-founder and imagine being a couple years into something you're just doing because you

think it's a good idea and thought he was in trouble yeah like whoa yeah he said cease

and desist he was waiting for a letter in the mail and it was like no no how can we

incorporate you more how can we help you do what you're doing so I really really enjoyed

this interview and I hope everybody else does it's long but it's worth it

all right so here we go we've got a special guest as we like to do every now and then

on the What Podcast we've got Patrick Wayland with us Patrick is a co-founder correct is

that right or founder I'll be founder of soberu co-founder of the nonprofit I don't yeah I

don't want to leave anybody out of of soberu this is a topic Russ you and I and I think

even Brian I don't remember if you joined us at the end of last year we talked about

it but it was one of those sort of aha moments where we noted I know rush you and I did that

but I think we had somebody one of our campmates walked by and say there's a lot of non drinking

people this year at Bonnaroo yeah Barry I think you for the first time at Camp Nut Butter

you and I were in the minority as far as drinking hundred percent right well if I was there

then I was joined in with you at that time anyway you were there you were there and you're

definitely part of the conversation which is why we're doing this and but also our other

campmates who we're going to talk to I think in a week the the Veland family but it wasn't

just you guys it was a you know it was notable so that's one part of it but also soberu has

been around what a decade is that right Patrick well I've been to every Bonnaroo so I was

we had a table with the first Bonnaroo just organically we just took over a corner of

a coffee shop right on one of the main drags it goes to the right of the witch stage and

that coffee shop operator wasn't super thrilled we were there but there was about 40 of us

that came to see you know the dead guys paying it fish you know and we were all on the internet

doing our own thing with those bands and because they were all at Bonnaroo we all showed up

together and we just hung out together we wanted to see the music but we also wanted

to fellowship together we've done that at the corner for three or four years until there

was an invitation to you know take it to a different level but pretty much been there

every year doing this thing all right there's there's a lot that we're going to unpack in

this conversation and I'm just going to say a few things and then kind of try to get out

of the way but the reason this is important is because especially Bonnaroo has this image

of being this I mean I can't tell you how many people ask me so you just go up there

and just get drunk and get high and spend your whole week stone drunk whatever and you

know for a week and and maybe some people do but in my case I'm like no I don't do

any of that because the last thing I want to be is hung over in a porta potty on the

farm or potentially sick in any way or something like yeah anything that could really derail

your time but that is the image right I mean let's just go ahead and put it out there that

is the image so it's important for this festival in particular that you have whether we have

something called soberoo you know that's a name that's there on purpose but it's more

than that you hit on it you want to see the music you want to remember the music you want

to see the bands you want to have the same you know experience that everyone else does

but you know you want to do it a different way so I'm going to go ahead and ask and then

I know Brian has got a bunch of questions and I'm sure Russ does as well but explain

soberoo explain this you don't just do it at this festival right it's a it's a national

type of thing so explain what you guys do so we're a fan facing public installation

in the middle of Plant Roo now they've lived just a couple of times but at that you know

public facing installation we're just interacting with fans that walk by and we explain what

we are which is really just a group of fans that choose to come to Bonnarooy without using

drugs or alcohol we're not affiliated with the festival any bands in particular we're

not affiliated with a 12-step recovery program we want to make that clear we're not going

to you know promote anything we're just providing a safe space it's a harbor for people that

are there choosing not to drag or use some are straight edge most are in recovery from

addiction or alcoholism that we've had expected mothers we've had designated drivers at certain

events people that pop in that are just tired of their friends that have had too much the

nice thing is we've got seats and we've got shade or dry space if they want to come in

and hang out so we're not just keeping ourselves as a little area off to the side we open it

up as a lounge for people to come in and it will have recovery style meetings for a day

at Bonnaroo at noon 3 6 and at midnight and it has grown at Bonnaroo we also have a campground

out in group camping and we have a tent back there and we'll have a sunrise meeting so

that makes a shift meeting that we manage and we have a large 40 by 40 space that they

give us which is over by where the cinema used to be I think that's called the Hoost

Age now but it's it's over in that fall corner back behind the fence and they let us have

access to take people back there from a you know kind of an anonymity standpoint so the

idea is just support for people that come if 10% of the public population are in recovery

then 10% of 60,000 people are maybe at that festival that are also you know in recovery

or affected by somebody who's addiction or alcoholism has you know taken them to another

fellowship that they want to you know borrow time with us.

Well Patrick take me back to the beginning since you've been there since then that's

a good place to start the beginning you said from from the jump this is what you were doing

just to pry personally a little bit had you had experiences life experiences that led

you to believe that this was important going into a bizarre new concept like Bonnaroo in

2002 how did that launch that quick you know that quickly that back then 24 or 22 years

ago.

I think I'll take a step even back before Bonnaroo time me and a couple of other fellows

started this sober group that follows around widespread payday called the Gateway and that

was very organic that was similar to the Warf Rats that followed around the Grateful Dead

I got I got you know into recovery back in 97 after six months I thought my life was

over I thought my life was over when Jerry Garcia died you know and then I spiraled for

several years into bad addiction and alcoholism I got into recovery and then in the summer

of 98 I'm going to tell you right I'm going to tell you about Bluegrass stuff since

25th anniversary and I went out there without any support but I went out there with some

other friends that I had you know that used and drank and smoked and did all that stuff

and we had a good time but I went to a meeting in town that day and I met some people that

I'm still friends with to this very day just happened to run into folks that are in the

industry or major major fans that are always on the road touring with people so I you know

sort of lucked into that little group of people time went by following bands still wanted

to go see live music Ballin' Rooter gets denounced and we all decide we're going to go and I

live in Louisville on three hour drive away it's easy for me to get there and we just

showed up we started to kind of how do you find each other we found each other and we

organized loosely over the course of going back three four years it was probably 2026

we were sitting under a tree on the only tree maybe in Centauru that we could find and we

had a little meeting and if you've ever seen one you know what it looks like and Chris

Crowell drove up on her little golf cart she was director of operations in the field at

the time and she's like what are you all doing?

I was like oh my god we are in trouble over here I told her this is what we're doing she

goes okay she goes here's my card I want you to call me next week and so I got on a

call with her and she said so I want to get you on another call with some other people

I really I was thinking are there going to be lawyers on this call is this like a season

to sis don't come back to our festival?

You're messing up the cell job here man.

Your faces are on a wall somewhere right?

Jack Daniels is over here not looking very proud at what you're doing so I did not know

what to expect but Rick Farme was on the call.

Nice.

I know that name.

Yeah.

And John Derroin was on that call and he was the head of the Mounted Police the horseback

Mounted Police he was from Texas but he was a long time in recovery.

For people listening Rick Farman is one of the co-founders he's with Superfly so yeah

that's a big deal I just want to make sure everybody listening knows that.

Yeah I got on the call and I was just like oh what's going on here and then a lady who

was president of Music Cares was on the call and then Chris who put it all together and

they asked similar questions to what you just asked you know Brian but I told him what we

were doing and Rick said how many people do you think and I said you know I bet you there's

been a hundred people come by our space and hang out with us that are in recovery and

I think he said something along the line so you're helping me sell a hundred tickets every

year to my festival and I'd say Rick yes I am.

So what can we do to help you out?

Nice.

That is super cool to hear because to what Barry kind of led with is the perception that

everybody just goes to Bonnaroo to get all effed up.

At first it's true that was pretty true that was pretty true in two and three and four

and after the state patrol started to crack down very hard in those early years as you're

on your way they were going to leave you alone once you got to Bonnaroo is this magical place

where police didn't exist but they existed everywhere else and they were going to get

you if they could so the thought process I was 22 the very first year so that I mean

a child so the new strategy was you don't bring your drugs you get them when you get

to Bonnaroo you let everybody else do the heavy lifting and you would walk down the

you know unofficial official shakedown street and you would buy name it you know I mean

I'm not going crazy in the gutter here but what you needed you could find that's not

a thing anymore and it hasn't been for a while yeah sure somebody's got something somewhere

but not the way it used to be.

I wonder maybe you have a feeling on this did they did they they want to maybe try to

keep that maybe even if it wasn't reality to everybody the perception do they do you

feel like that was something they maybe were wanting to get away from or did they just

see a good organization that they thought this can also bring us sales and notoriety

in that in that world what do you think to that?

That's a great question I think it's a little bit of both I think they certainly knew they

did some good publicity if they ever wanted to point somebody to interview somebody at

our booth and then here comes you know Fox News affiliated from national they're coming

by and they want to talk to you and so that that would happen but also you know they're

building a city every festival has a city you have to have ways to you know go to the

bathroom ways to feed people ways to keep them hydrated medical staff and if you're

doing a city you've got people that are going to need you know the services that we were

providing so I think they just would naturally do incorporate that there's a lot of other

nonprofits doing good work at Planet Roo they've been there for long stretches of time they

you know why would this not be naturally incorporated into one of those into that section?

Yeah good for Chris right that's the one that wrote up I mean we talk about that a lot this

is the kind of thing that I think Bonnaroo does has done very well pay attention see

an opportunity for something you know and and how can we help and make it better?

One step ahead of trends yeah or at least lockstep with trends and while at that time

I'm not going to even begin to pretend that going to show sober was a trend it wasn't

no it was it was foreign as all foreign subjects could be we can maybe talk get to this these

days that's different and so I think leaning into that early just solidifies that Bonnaroo

stays ahead of the curve.

Patrick my first memory I went that that Thursday in 02 and I know the tree you're talking about

and I saw a group sitting in a circle under that tree and my memory is they were passing

around an inflatable bong which I had never seen before and thinking this is a little

different place so you know I still haven't seen one of those I know right it was like

two pieces and it anyway it was the coolest thing but what a juxtaposition right so and

Brian I'm going to ask you and Brian has been very open and willing to talk about his sobriety

it's a year what a couple weeks past the year now congratulations first of all.

Yeah it's around 400 days almost now so it's I don't even count anymore that's the what

the beauty of this process is when you get to a point where you're not like it's 132

it's 133 then you really start to feel like you well I I don't want to say we or that

it's a very personalized program and situation but that's when I really felt like I can do

this I don't even I don't even think about it anymore.

So both of you are the perfect people in my opinion to ask this question as a outsider

if that's the right word because I still drink way more than I should but I've heard you

talk about it Brian and I think I heard you mention it a little bit Patrick and if not

I'm sure it ran through your brain this idea of I won't be able to enjoy this music or

this festival or I'm going to have to change my lifestyle a hundred percent to enjoy this

kind of thing.

No it was an existential crisis deep inside my soul going into this whole you know change

my life kind of decision and it was a yeah I mean what do I do now?

Yeah my identity was based around you know using you know.

It's such a common story and that's why it's a great story to tell no matter how many times

from different perspectives.

Sorry go ahead Patrick.

Yeah no I didn't mean to cut you off either but I just identify with it it was like all

you know self-esteem was based around how much can I get how much could I use and how

fun could I seem to be having and I just what they did a DVD of the first modern room and

they got a video of me in the trailer like early do like spinning with like a white like

tank top with my cowboy hat on.

I have that DVD right around here somewhere.

And then I think I had a yellow you'll see these yellow stickers on us typically that

say one show at a time we'll have those at our table and so when I'm out in the field

and I'm out in the cave and I see one of our people with it on their water bottle or on

their backpack or on their chest like I'm not alone there's one of my people and so

that's sort of like our little you know from across the field I can see and I noticed that

on that DVD I was like oh that pot that was me.

That's cool and then for those that don't know the one show at a time would be a play

on the one day at a time and just for today that's some of the kind of verbiage and endering

different kinds of treatment you might be going through and so that is cool to be able

to have something where you can kind of if nothing else just a nod.

Yeah but I see you.

I see you.

If I can let me just double emphasize you were following the Grateful Dead and Fish

right and then Brian who I know but I mean you've been to every Bonnaroo so we're I

mean if we're going to talk.

I was a big panic follower for a while.

So if we're going to talk cliche right I mean if you're going to talk about.

Well I'm the walking cliche.

Yeah I mean if we're going to talk about bands and events and whatever you guys are it right.

I mean you weren't.

And those bands are it.

That's my point.

And that scene is it.

That's my point.

Yeah yeah yeah that's I see where you're going there and yeah it's not like we're saying

let's not get high before the three doors down or the you know the Nickelback show or

whatever would have been you know I'm trying to go back to 2005 or so.

Exactly.

But that's a certainly a problem there too.

I'm not meaning to even dismiss that because it certainly is but this is a culture.

Exactly perfect.

Thank you Barry.

A culture in which that is a thing.

And it always will be and I'm not even necessarily necessarily saying that's bad drinking and

doing some recreational drugs safely as an adult is a perfectly fine thing to do.

It's just a lot of us can't do it all the time or even much of the time without doing

it too much.

And to see organizations like this make that put that out there in the open and talk about

it is is great.

How long though Patrick did would you say what did it feel to you outside of talking

to organizers because obviously that's a big deal to you internally and like wow OK that's

cool but I mean at the festival it's two three four oh two three four five six seven.

When do you feel like you're actually getting the message you're doing the work that you're

starting to realize you want to do.

When do you when does it start to feel like you're getting somewhere where they because

if I got to imagine at first it felt like nobody's going to pay attention to this.

That would be my thought anyway but I'm the natural natural cynic.

What do you say to that.

There hasn't been a festival that I had been to where there's Bonnaroo or any of the other

thirty five that we that we do that I haven't sat at the table and had an experience with

someone that had never met us.

They did not know we existed and then popped in and in some instances were like you know

I I can't stop I used too much.

I had a terrible night last night or they brought their friend over who had a terrible

experience to talk with us and then they like you know are teary eyed and we talk we go

back in the back and we just have a few minutes with them somewhere outside what's quiet and

try to get them to just come back down to earth and go experience the rest of the week.

But there was a weekend there was a guy that ran the stage over in Planet Roo or was one

of the helpers over at that the stage over in Planet Roo where they had the little kids

activities and he came over and visited us maybe 2006 and then in 2007 we were setting

up we were getting there we get there we always got there Wednesday morning and now that's

way too late.

We got to start getting there on Monday I guess but we get there Wednesday morning we

were inside we're setting up inside the festival and he's already inside and he came running

across the field when we showed up and he did like a knee slide into the tables and

he was just like you old herbotic I'm so happy to see you I just celebrated one year he had

met us last year and impacts like that are just it makes all of the you've been a moderator

you know it's like five six days of living in outdoor environment in the middle of Tennessee

in the middle of June it could be anything from monsoon to like melting hot to really

nice weather and it could be exhausting and then here comes this this gift just sliding

into us on Wednesday and we just like just take a breath it's like I'm just like you

know I don't care what I have to deal with you know this guy right here made every bit

of energy we've put forward for the rest of the week.

Yeah and the and the success stories really resonate throughout people like us Patrick

that are that are or well I'll speak for me anyway especially being pretty new to it the

success stories make me feel really good like and that gives me motivation for just anything

really so I can imagine that.

When did you start to do this outside of Bonnaroo so you're you're seeing it successful you've

done you've done some late 90s stuff post Garcia I'd imagine a few dead incarnations

some further maybe you mentioned some others when did you decide or did was the decision

just kind of organically happen let's do this outside of just this festival.

All of it really has been organic so there wasn't a big board and you didn't get together

and have like shareholders meetings or anything like that.

Not until about 2012 but but the first the first was a super fly did a festival in Vegas

called Vegas Halloween.

Chris said Chris said hey we're gonna do this this year are you can you will you.

But I'm like yeah I'll be happy to do it.

It's like yeah because you look back at those lineups this is like holy cow you know it's

like yeah at the Super Bowl or Silver Bowl whatever it's not the Super Bowl but the Silver

Bowl in Las Vegas it's like yeah we're in Nevada one of the university football teams

plays yeah outside in the parking lot and inside the stadium the two stages and really

pretty fun it lasted a couple years but that was the first you know year of doing two festivals

there was a festival in Miami promoters last name is Langer they called it Langerado ran

it ran for several years and we were down there maybe I'm going to say that five year

run for them until that festival just you know closed its doors and went on a different

direction and then in 2012 and sort of where the next step for us really kind of took a

whole you know I can go into that but yeah that was really growth for us between like

oh seven and 2012.

I want to I want to get it back to the mission but you raise a point talk about the organization

what you know I think Brian was kind of half joking about the board but you said 2012 I'm

guessing there is so what is the organization how does it look what all do you guys do how

many people you know all that kind of stuff.

So around 2012 it got to be pretty pretty serious and the festivals were pretty serious

about it and a lot of concern I made on the road there's news you know somebody passed

away in the campground and I need to hear about it so when he ran out on the highway

and got hit by someone so those bus and those things happen it's just every festival it's

not unique to any one festival but we would have people that would literally come up to

our booth and thought we were like a detox unit and they would say can you watch my friend

he's had too much to drink and naivety you know we're like sure you know he wants to

lay down we've got roommates in the shade you know we got box fans because we got power

and so let him lay down back there and festivals like leery and stuff like that it's important

like what if what if he doesn't wake up.

Yeah that's like I see the legalities were already bouncing in my head as you said.

He's in your tent and there's going to be somebody who wants to know who was watching

my son or who was watching my daughter and so that like it's got to be serious so they

recommended some people there was a guy that had joined our forces that had an idea along

what we were already doing for about 10 years and I was talking before we jumped on your

Sean I helped really create a nonprofit a 501c3 that had a board of directors we got

insurance on the directors and operators and on every volunteer that we bring in and we're

putting a COI together for every festival as well there are other insured we have to

do these things and so 2012 was the growth for us the festival recommended a few people

Sean had some connections to a few folks that went on the board and if we wanted any help

or direction or connections ask some of these folks because they can help you with pretty

much anything you want done or any place you'd like to grow into.

So the 501c is launched and we naturally through that board had connections into other promoters

outside superfly live nation c3 presents and now they're all kind of under one umbrella

anyway but Insomniac was another one that did all the EDM's it was just it just grew

really sort of like organically but now we've got an organization we meet once a year we

go over you know the funds how much do we take in and we're taking in funds and one

dollar donations at a time at the table I mean that's that's that's it in some instances

I've had people say hey I'm going to buy my like a tour manager will reach out to me use

and recover say I want to buy my artist a Christmas gift this year but the gift they

says just just make a donation to a charity we want to make the donation to your charity

and so those little donations come in here and there but you know we run on a pretty

tight shoestring budget nobody gets paid everything we do is free and fun and what do they cover

they cover like pamphlets tickets travel I mean what is what does the funding cover yeah

so it's covering our insurance it's covering the promotional stuff we have on the table

so pamphlets the stickers that we bring out that will say things like you don't need dope

to dance this is your brain on hugs and people flock to the stickers and you know if we need

to buy new box fans if we need to buy things that decorate and travel that ship around

the country to decorate the 30 or 35 events that we do every year the cost of video of

our board members travel into if we need hotel rooms supplementing our volunteers gas money

and trying to really take care of all expenses if it's an all possible if on a really we

don't get hotels we all can't you know but yeah can we pay for people's food can we

pay for their breakfast lunch and dinner can we buy those meals and we want to do a lot

more stuff like that.

Are you set up around the country like like you have regional people or do you travel

to Seattle type of thing or do you cross country or do you have some people in Seattle how

does that work.

Well that's another great question there's always been the challenge out so we actually

do a festival a country music festival at the Gorge called watershed and so I go through

my Rolodex you know about I can't go to Seattle every year it's also the same weekend as another

festival a lot of that crossover takes place we've got to like budget our time and our

space I've got a good group of people on the board in the West Coast that are younger music

fans that are part of the Sean Sun and Sean Sun's friend who are really connected out

there that are active that we want to show up at the first year we are invited to this

event we're looking for sustainable festivals not one off that might may or may not you

know sustain itself larger by bigger promoters and then find the fans that come to our meetings

and talk to them over the three days or the four days that we're interacting with them

and you're local you know would you want to take this over for us next year and then I

do all the advances I get into the Linn portal when I take care of all the credentialing

and the tents and the power and the tables and the chairs and all the advances and I

make you the lead and you're the point of contact and I just get you connected to the

point of contact at the festival and then it's now it runs itself and I don't have

to go back out to Seattle to do that every year.

It does sound like you've got a pretty good running machine here after all these years

though you still feel like it hasn't plateaued or taken a step back organizationally it still

feels like it's the mission is still strong I mean I know it is within your heart and

within most people involved but like from a real let's say we're running a business

a nonprofit business here you really feel like it sounds like it feels like it's still

doing the work you wanted and more and it's fulfilling to this point still.

Let me piggyback on that kind of to what I said at the very beginning last year you know

Rust and I we noted right it felt like a shift not just within our camp but other people

noted where does it feel like where you are in addition to Brian's question?

Well and so yeah I think it is kind of a well-oiled machine Brian I'll talk to that first the

we're as good as our volunteers and you know I deal with you know drunks and alcoholics

and addicts and recovery so sometimes you give a drunk an inch they want to take a mile

and they've got a staff bracelet on and they're working and they think they can go to the

pit and take pictures with their iPhone and then I get a call from the festival it's like

one of your volunteers I don't want that don't need that don't want to have that because

they will lose my phone number in a heartbeat and 22 years of goodwill can be flushed down

the toilet with somebody who thinks you know they have an extra you know advantage so really

really work closely with the volunteer the people that put my volunteer their volunteers

like give them the autonomy to take your people in Austin and get your team together for Austin

City Limits take your people in you know the city that you live in and then you know if

you want me to get on a zoom call go over Harmonium the name of our foundation and talk

about our mission and how we have grown and what we do I'll do that so really are as good

as the volunteers and really fortunate and blessed you know in that respect to be able

to grow and hand these off because from a control freak standpoint it's you know I'd

like to go to every festival but I have a full-time job and kids in college and a lot

of other stuff going on the other you know the shift that we're seeing I mean there's

like a shift to like you know I'm California so right so like could I could I hang out

with you guys is like yeah we don't we don't call squash we don't tell you know it's like

it's your call you know where you are we meet you where you are if you eat the gummy in

the campground and that's your you know micro dose for the day and it makes everything sunnier

for you and you don't drink anymore we're fine with that you know you're happy to hang

out and talk as long as you want to hang out and talk but when we're inside here this is

a safe place no chemicals no alcohol because other people are coming in here that are completely

abstinent so I think some of that shift is sort of like see people getting into like

more you know they're not and I've had this conversation with people that are volunteering

that are a little scared going to their first festival ever and volunteering with us and

I just will be there on a Friday afternoon looking around going I can't even see anybody

with a beer can in their hand you know it's not like they're like a flaunting you know

they're they're using you know because nobody wants to stand out look like a sore thumb

or you know a bad apple in the middle of the meal but the more people are trying to stay

hydrated and care for themselves and I think that self-care is really just generating you

know within our you know culture anyway these days and mental health that side of things

are sort of you know we don't dabble in it that's not our field we're not professionals

but there will be people that will come by and you know I'm a veteran I have PTSD we

just saw tool and all the lights and the booms and the bangs and the lights sort of triggered

some stuff come and hang out for a few minutes yeah you drink beer but we're a safe place

I don't know I thought it was like certified dark tits I've seen that out there now that

get people back rooted and grounded again if they're getting too elevated so there is

a shift to wellness and I think you know it's just nice to see that but it's hard to really

find people who just stumbling anyway there are pockets of it you can see them pass that

you know alone and abandoned but it's rare.

Well you kind of went down a couple things I had on my list here California sober of

course is I think Billy Strings has made it the most popular terminology these days that's

one thing but I wanted to start when you were talking about your volunteers and you're only

as good as your volunteers and the people that you allow inside of your organization

and what you allow them to do once the festival has started is a whole other thing outside

of what's going on and you know on a zoom call you know I in the offseason dealing with

drug addicts is very very difficult and especially new new addicts that have that are working

to get away from that and depending on how their their willpower and just their life

variables are it can go from not too hard to one of the hardest things that somebody

could ever possibly go through and drug addicts and alcoholics are liars they don't mean to

be sometimes they're just they've been conditioned to because shame comes in that sometimes they're

lying for no reason and so I wonder what kind of trouble you run into with staffing while

you're on site while I while you're in the offseason or any anything involving organization

we have somebody and one more caveat is that when you're starting to get sober you start

to get dopamine you never had from other places and you get high on life almost to keep it

that simplistically you get high on an idea you get high on a concept the reality of it

we'll see and to get overzealous and to be over the top excited about something do do

you find people who can't handle it that don't don't actually follow the I don't know if

you have a stack of rules a manual here check them off make sure I think you understand

where my questions coming from sorry I'm meandering do you have issues with that I would guess

you'd surely at some point you at least have a little bit yeah I mean in some instances

it's not even like they're going rogue and you know doing something you know they shouldn't

be doing in some cases it's really just overwhelmed they've come into an environment where you

know they're nearly set off more than they can chew and maybe to put it in a dumb cliche

I mean you get it I mean you're around 70,000 people and you're you know within a you know

a perimeter of fencing that's now you know where you are and it's like oh you know it

can be it can be a little overwhelming you know if you haven't done it before so that

I've seen people not come back you know the second day you know and that puts me down

a staff member which is fine it's you know we don't you know ever suffer we do well perfectly

well with the units other people pick up the slack but they're you know that that example

with somebody in the pit with a camera phone is that's an exact example of a situation

that that has happened it happened at lock-in and it wasn't cool and just you know a new

group of promoters that we were working with Peter Shapiro and his group and it's just

like I don't need to have them you know upset with us because if they do something more

we'd like to have good rapport with them and we'd like to get a good referral from them

so those those things happen and people will say oh I want to go up in the towers on the

side of the stage for you know Red Hot Chili Peppers yeah good luck so does everybody dude

you're gonna have it you're gonna wind up like you know you're gonna want to drunk this

is what you're gonna wind up you know because you are not being part of a unit you're being

part of one you're serving yourself instead of here with the rest of us to serve the community

that came to the festival and yeah it is a dynamic shift that happens with in people's

journey that there is a greater purpose you know I'll buy tickets to a concert it's not

so I can get wasted it's I bought ticket to see a band and I go to see the music and that

was a novel idea when I'd spent you know a better part of a decade or so seeing Grateful

Dead concerts and I didn't make it into a couple of them you know this was in the parking

lot too drunk to get inside you know where I was in my tent at Deer Creek and could not

get out the next day because I was so hungover so those things happen to us when we get into

recovery we gotta you know find the people that are generally wanting to help and serve

and that's kind of my when I talk to them it's you're here to serve first second and

third and then the fourth is you get to see great music all weekend yeah and then enjoy

yourself yeah so along those lines Patrick and thank you again for doing this but I'm

hearing a lot of things right so your organization you have volunteers who I'm guessing are who

have had an issue with drugs or alcohol right so they they now want to work with you they

some of them I as you just said think this is a way to get a ticket to see some music

and I'm gonna guess they're probably sincere they want to also help right so you're dealing

with that group you're also if I understand correctly you've got maybe the curious the

person who walks by who thinks there has that first thought I have a problem with drugs

or alcohol oh look there's an organization and I'm guessing there's a lot of the oh

you mean there's somebody else that has this same problem I'm not alone I'm not the only

one to the person who has just maybe become sober who needs a group right and needs a

lot of different categories of people there's a bunch going on is what that's what I'm hearing

as a lot going on it's it's information that that was sort of my reference earlier about

mission I'm guessing your information your support your everything right you're trying

to get you anyway education that's a lot man that's a lot to take on and just just that

border route I mean we've got that large cave sober room out in group camping you know it's

like managing you know getting the cars in on on Wednesday and Thursday to find to get

to us because they give them the yellow tags and then and so we're coordinating with like

the people that are doing the campgrounds you know these are the people that bought

camp sober room campground passes and so they've got the yellow hang tag they've got to get

to us and we're working with them they're calling that's like Wednesday's mission you

know get them in there and then on Wednesday we're also setting up the general public facing

space and planet route and the 40 by 40 behind the fence space where we'll have those four

meetings during the day and making sure periodically that nobody's going back there and you know

doing what people do when they find a little nook at Bonnaroo that's like quiet and crowded

you know and so you know managing as much as we can all of that and then not having

a golf cart you know walking it's a lot of moving parts we're really trying to serve

that's the thing the most thing is education comes naturally just from interacting with

public but then the service to those that know we're there they come back because we're

there or found us or we're told that we were there and are looking for us so it's that

they get a place to hang out with other like-minded individuals before they go off to see their

schedule of shows they want to see and then when we host the meetings a hundred of us

under a tent at midnight with all their Christmas decorations and lights and tapestries and

it's a pretty awesome thing when that happens.

Just a question not so much about Soberoo but your just thoughts on the trend as Barry

kind of talked to earlier on is very much especially with the youth drinking less is

a thing for what reasons we could go on and on about why but that's the stats the numbers

they show that but what I never hear is especially in the world of designer cannabis and the

fascinating world of that agricultural science I never see a headline of people are doing

drugs less I don't see that as much especially in a country that pumps pharmaceuticals out

like it's nothing which is a whole also another time conversation for another day what do

you what are your thoughts on that I mean the drinking thing is easier to notice sometimes

because it's so accepted and it's such a part of American and world culture really.

Your thoughts to that because you are a drinking and drug combo kind of awareness group and

I've never had a drug problem I still don't believe I have it I do feel like I'm a I can

speak to most addiction issues I've never had a drug problem I've had a drink myself

away daily problem most of my life to me they're not the same thing to many they are would

you just speak to some of that.

Yeah I'm in the camp that you know addiction to addiction you know whether it's alcohol

addiction you know gambling addiction it's a some supplementing something inside of me

that just makes me I'm using it because it makes me feel good and if it makes me feel

good with one and two will make me feel better and then I just can't stop that marching drum

once it starts to beat so that that sort of like I don't you know really get into it if

to whatever it is if you come to us because you have a gambling problem that at at Bonnaroo

I'll talk to you all day long about addiction you know I just have a fun time chatting about

it but I don't work in the field you know it's not you know I don't know the numbers

you know necessarily of like you know I've read the stories about alcohol consumption

among you know Gen Z's of this way down you know which is fascinating to me you know I'm

like that that would seem like something fake IDs and getting drinks at the bar would be

like the natural if I was 18 again but it's not designer drugs designer drugs are like

I think in a lot of cases these music festivals are just test test kitchens for guerrilla

chemists that have put together some weird concoction to say hey you know try this out

you know if you like this I've got a big supply you can take it back to your college campus

or to your you know to your you know boarding school and you can supply all your friends

it's a great point I'm just like you don't even there are so many people that will do

that I would have done that you know when I was younger I didn't care I didn't ask you

hell yeah that would have done that try and put it in me and I just don't we'll see how

we'll just guinea pig all these idiots out here in this field man there's generally no

yeah generally with no harm intended I mean most people the the old hey kid in the in

the dark alley try these drugs it might ruin your life he doesn't really want to ruin your

life he wants you to do this and and continue coming you know the perceptions always been

off a little bit going back to the sort of beginning I want to ask you both it's an obvious

question but I want to hear you answer it how is seeing the Grateful Dead fish panic

different sober for both of you this is a great question I have an answer for it Patrick

I want you to go first yeah well you know that's simple and that you know that answer

that everybody who's I remember the music you know the next day I remember what happened

I remember in the set list you know I remember who I sat with and I remember most of the

events but it gets me high music has always gotten me high my first concert that I bought

a ticket for when I was in high school was like Prince and it wasn't 1999 it was controversy

it was like like 1981 you know and I was just love going to see live music and just couldn't

get enough of it and then I lost I thought it was enhanced by my drinking and my using

and then I lost my way through that addiction and then I've gotten off and I'm on the other

side and like I still I really I love the environment around live music getting in past

the ticket takers and the metal detectors and getting to the seats and seeing people

and socializing around it and then boom it's just that rush of just that first note we're

off and running and it's it's an adrenaline that you know I don't need you know drugs

and alcohol for and I did not know that inactive addiction because all I knew is I needed another

drink.

My answer is about half of that and when it comes specifically to the jam band community

because I am the same way to your point Patrick of yes the fun the build up the excitement

the getting through the metal detectors you know we're almost there you know or getting

through the arch we're almost there and and you just you feel it it's just like oh here

we go you know like that's still there that that didn't have anything to do with drugs

that's I love the big event but when it comes specifically to the jam band community and

I and when I say followed I mentioned that I think I said that word widespread panic

that's not exactly accurate but I went to a damn lot of shows if they were between 200

miles of where I live here in Tennessee I was there I didn't go to you know Ohio to

go see panic usually so it was all flat footed floozy in Chattanooga that I'll never forget

all right Memorial Auditorium if I were to guess but so but to me that music that genre

which I still love still cherish Witten Saul Sam Holt who I won't bore everybody with who

he is but he worked with panic and he did a panic cover on here locally on Friday and

loved it but there is a certain part of it that is missing for me that music is designed

for me to be a little spaced I can't I can't get spaced organically to the place that that

music usually goes the stripped down rock and in the end this stuff is rock and roll

it's blues bass rock and roll that's been turned into a different sound into the 21st

century and there's portions of it primarily just the jam improvise improvising and the

drums and the space with the dead and these things I get bored a lot easier than I used

to and that's not I don't mean that in any negative way you can fix boredom change your

board fix boredom you can do that if you want to it has affected me a little bit I still

love widespread panic with all my heart not super excited about going to a two and a half

hour show anymore and it primarily I told this to a guy a huge panic guy on Friday we

were talking shortly it's kind of loud and and I was like man I can't stand to be around

drunk people I can't stand around being people be like hey man let me tell you about this

thing but normally I'd be like oh my god let me tell you about this thing you know I'm

that is difficult for me I granted you've got a lot under your belt Patrick and and

just amazing props to you and doing that for how long you have I'm working on a year and

you know a month and a half that's really not that long actually so I'm still kind of

trying to work my way into that but I'm forcing my way in but I'd be lying if I didn't say

drugs and alcohol made some of that music better not that the music wasn't good and

it needed elevation just the the setting itself it was enhanced a little bit and maybe that's

something I'm still trying to grow out of I don't know what do you think first of all

can I just what a what a great honest answer and thank you for that honestly that's a great

answer but yeah Patrick what do you think I mean have you been around a lot of people

been doing this for one month for one year for six months for six years what are your

experiences in your conversations with people who might be saying the same thing yeah I

was I was a hallway dancer at grateful dead country I was never a foot row you know I

don't dance in the hallway anymore yeah I was a hallway spinner out of it and I loved

it I loved that energy and always be like the same next show same pocket of people you

know and that yeah I got I got to be friends with a lot of them they're still out there

they are still out we're just gray now you know we're bald but we're still out there

spinning to concerts at shows and I just love that energy that I got because I'm not a seat

taker I'm not a ticket go to my seat and sit there and necessarily watch the music I'm

going to the pockets of the day and they're in the in the in the like the one show at

a time community like the hardest heaviest dancers are in that community and we migrate

together we'll go take over an entire section over the portal one 17 it's all there you

know the kids with the stickers on and the next portals the rolling alley where everybody's

rolling their head off but we're over here and we mix with other we laugh we're high

five and then nobody can tell that we're not the ones that are all messed up that that

to me is like doing the lifesaver because I think with that it I'd be like part of me

is dead and I can't get it back the hope is it comes back and you get it back it's all

alive and it gets brought back seeing live music does it for me but that energy around

being in the moment dancing with people and like set break dripping wet you know just

whoo-hoo you know can't can't put a price on it and then still sober Brian Russ I want

to ask Patrick about music and lineup and the Bonnaroo in particular but before we move

into that is there anything else that you guys probably yeah I could do this one for

a while I mean we've touched on the on the on the the important parts of the organization

I didn't know how healthy it necessarily was because you never know you know how an organization

is actually doing I stopped by last year and talked to wish I remember their names I don't

for a good little while and it was and and last year's Bonnaroo was my first 100% sober

Bonnaroo and and so I was doing it very differently and it it it it was great like there was never

a moment where I was like I'm not sure about this anymore you know let me along those lines

Brian yeah because I I mean that was a year ago so you were just coming up how is how

is it different this year your anticipation if that's the right word your expectation

going what you expected last year or your fears your worries your expectation what's

different this year than last year different this year last year a lot last year was a

big just it was a anxiety ridden in its own I mean it's as we talk about a lot Barry you

know the anxiety of just getting there and it's just it can be as stressful for anybody

yeah Patrick mentioned just getting there and getting getting ready parked and said

exactly that always is there anyway right and so there was another layer of okay and

then am I actually going to enjoy this like is this going to be fun I know parts of it

will be like I didn't think I wasn't so far like in in gray area don't know land but

then you got to think it's a 24-hour day it's a six or well for Russ it's six plus days

but but for many of us it's it's four days and then it starts to think oh my god what

about halfway through you know what am I going to do I'm I didn't know if triggered was going

to be an issue or not and and really even during my deepest drinking days which was

most of them didn't do that a lot at Montero I really didn't I was I was pretty smart I've

been to all of them I've learned a lot and and I my addiction wasn't so strong that I

couldn't say it's gonna kind of put that on the back burner because I this is already

a hard enough week we've already touched on all that so I learned real quickly into that

weekend that that was gonna be probably a pretty good weekend and I had some anxiety

medication that I took extra of wasn't necessarily a great idea so now you start now kind of

a question at earlier now you start weighing where's the sober really at but this was some

low grade stuff but outside of that moving to this year couldn't be more excited because

I now know more more information more experience and it I think it's going to be the easiest

thing in the world we'll touch on the schedule here in a minute we've already spent some

time on it today that's got me a little bit more excited I have no issues or concerns

at all about that yeah I mean if you do I mean you've got a fellowship of folks that

are there that that's the beautiful thing about it it's you know we're all in this there's

room we used to say there's room for all of us on the lot right there's room for all of

us you know at at at at at Bonnaroo and we're not alone that's also the message I think

that I have to remember is where I get lost in that exhaustion the heat maybe malnourished

dehydrated you know Friday you know late in the day and still looking on by about 48

or hours here and then by Saturday I got my sea legs back and I'm just like couldn't

be happier and this is great that that just fellowship of like people that are also I

can go back to home base whether it's at my campsite or at the tent that we offer that

now I'm rooted and I'm not alone and I sometimes could get there in my addiction with a bunch

of people but you know when it was me having to supply my own high and I don't alone and

I don't ever really have to go there now in my sobriety so it's really great one more

thing before we get closer to wrapping this up and look at the schedule I wanted to ask

you Patrick that for anybody who might be in the same boat I am and I don't know how

far I off on I am on an island or by myself I bet it's not that far away and it's there's

probably plenty that would someone understand you said you're not affiliated with AA or

any 12 step or in a or any 12 step organization but you do have the meetings and you mentioned

earlier I knew there was a few of them that there's there's there's more than a few well

those are in essence AA meetings I am sure you have somebody who who is I'm forgetting

the terminology but the person who would head up the meeting sorry I'm not forgetting what

he would exactly call that person but the guy basically I in charge of that one meeting

where there's 30 minutes 40 minutes 20 minutes whatever it is that's still kind of a to me

and I have struggled since my sixth my 59th day sober which would mean 30 days in rehab

which doesn't count because you know you're there 30 after 29 after does count because

you're living you know you're on your own you make your own decisions now and I was

going to meetings because I felt like I had to I won't get into it but the I just I fell

out of love with AA quickly I just don't really like their teachings I don't really like

the way that the meetings are set up maybe it's purely personal and it has to do with

nothing about the meeting itself but these meetings probably are still designed around

that whatever what would you say to people who think AA just doesn't speak to them now

the getting sober thing speaks to them all day long but the AA part doesn't what what

are your thoughts on that it's a great question I can we are not affiliated we don't bring

any literature from their fellowship to our we don't bring a big book or a basic text

from NA we don't read out of any of that this is the big book by the way right here yeah

we don't we don't we're not using that it's a we're we're just a fellowship of fans that

are supporting one another but most of the people that come to the meetings are coming

from Chattanooga Atlanta Mississippi Louisiana Florida places north Midwest and they're typically

in a 12-step program and we're not and it worked really well for them sorry it works

very well for them but go ahead yeah I you know in because we have multiple installations

we've got just the public facing installation and playing at Rue that's people that are

just want to sit down and fellowship with us they're not drinking for their own reasons

are not using for their own reasons they can come in and relax in our space and just enjoy

some other like-minded you know clean-headed people if they want to come to the meetings

at the meeting space a lot of them are going to share like they would share in their home

group back in Chicago you know and they're just down at Bonnaroo but they want to go

to a meeting and then they want to talk to their home group members or their sponsor

and say you'll never believe I went to a meeting in the middle of Bonnaroo so at the meetings

it has the feel of it but we don't bring 12-step literature I'm not bringing the big book I'm

not bringing a basic text from Narcotics Anonymous I'm not bringing any pamphlets to hand out

to promote that it will feel and sound like a regular meeting because people are going

to share like they are doing their home group and that's how we do it in the meeting tent

and you can certainly utilize your services from advice conversation pamphlets literature

all that and not have a single thing to do with a meeting and be nowhere near a meeting

itself so that's kind of almost its own I don't want to say completely separate but

there's a little bit of everything for everybody I realized when I was there before but I was

just curious about that AA and Sobhru connection.

Yeah and we usually don't ever- Non-connection.

Non-connection I should say.

Yeah when we close with like a typical like a prayer you know if it were to close with

a prayer and somebody does like a serenity prayer we usually do we usually do a dude

grant me the serenity instead of a god and we don't ever bring in like a our father or

anything like that.

Don't even get me started on serenity prayer.

We're not doing any of that stuff so it's very very rare that we have any conversations

about you know.

Alright Patrick we're going to ask you about your we're going to get your picks here in

a little bit but so if somebody is going to Bonnaroo or any other festival you guys are

I assume you're usually front and center you're easy to find right there's a tent is it what

what I mean at Bonnaroo at Sobhru what what nomenclature do you use when you're at other

festivals?

Typically typically sober something so at Sobhru at Chicago because it's in the Grand

Park we just call it at Sobhru Park at Lollapalooza and at Bourbon and Beyond we just call it

Sobhru and Beyond so pretty much you know we're just taking the end of that festival's

name the only thing with Lollapalooza is they wouldn't let us use all Palooza which I was

like that's a natural why would we not be Sobhru Palooza but they're like no we can't.

Perry Farrell man.

That's perfect.

Perry Farrell's got this thing on lockdown but really and also too Patrick it's the yellow

balloons that's kind of like the big thing right that people look for if you see not

the big massive ones that hang in the sky at Bonnaroo but if you see the yellow balloons

you're on the right track.

Yeah yeah yeah.

And is there a website or do you do that year round like if somebody how else can they find

you not at a festival?

Yeah so we have the foundation has a website where people can volunteer they can learn

more about what we do it's harmoniuminc.org and then really the social media is where

we interact on Facebook for the most part I'd like to get somebody else to kind of take

over some social media stuff some Twitter but for the most part at Bonnaroo Camp Sobhru

is our most active Facebook page and that is where people can start to kind of communicate

on their parking and camping arrangements with us in advance what do they need to buy

what do they need to bring you know what's it gonna look and sound and feel like so we

use social media more than anything else during the festival there's a festival going on in

Miami right now Tortuga Festival I got a group down there they're sending me pictures I'm

putting them up on the Sobhru Tortuga Facebook page so just try to manage that stuff a little

bit.

All right do you actually get to see any music?

Yeah yeah I pick and choose I pick and choose I'm old and I have to walk like everyone else

so it's like we all deal with that.

We all get converted there.

Who are you looking forward to at Bonnaroo this year?

I'm just gonna go right off the back the very first act at Bonnaroo on Thursday on stages

is Eggy and they are a pretty pretty heady little headband it's a jam band that started

just launched right now so I'll probably be there that tent is the more closer one for

where we're located but I'll walk across the field to the other stages and see stuff so

you know on that Thursday lineup big fan looking forward to seeing them on Thursday.

How many shows will you get to see?

I tell people all the time it's the best part about a festival is you get to see them all

because if you walk through it it's like the noise engineers got to have like all this

spatial set up but I get drawn into something I don't even know who it is I got to pull

out my phone and try to figure out who's on this app who am I seeing so it's randomly

usually introduced to somebody I'm like mind blown and then you know I wouldn't know some

of the names on here but I look forward to kind of like maybe sticking my toe in on occasion

and then when I'm not resting at our booth catching my nutrition going back out and seeing

what's happening in the field and I'll see you know five good sets a day but you know

I'd like to see them all.

That's a good number in my book.

Yeah that's a real good number.

What about Friday and just through the weekend some other highlights for you that are sticking

out that.

Who are you looking forward to hallway dancing to?

That's what I want to know.

I can hallway dance to Karungbin like all day long.

That is like if I don't know the lineup I'm like I got to figure out how to get to that

show that festival.

Really like those guys excited to get there.

The which stage is easier for us to get to than the what the bigger field but getting

over there to see them will be no problem.

I'm a big which stage guy pretty much anything on that stage is you know I like the stage

I like the sound like the audio there.

It's gotten real good these days yeah I agree.

Yeah the line of sight is good too from whatever angle I've approached it I can really kind

of see it here.

Well so big Gary Clark Jr. guy love him guitar player you know he's there.

Good rock and roll.

Maggie Rogers is killer.

I'm excited to see them and then over on that tent the 9 o'clock Joe Russo J-Rad.

I was just about to say J-Rad's got to be on your list right.

Yeah as far as like interpreters of Grateful Dead music might not get much better than

that one.

Yeah.

I mean when Saturday what are you looking at.

You know I'm a Kentucky guy Caves the Elephant from Bowling Green.

They've been around forever and I'll go pop in to see those guys.

Sure like 830 on the what stage.

Get ready everybody.

That's going to be great.

The girl that's in White Fang I'm trying to remember.

We've talked about her.

Yeah.

Alice in Wonderland.

Alice in Wonderland.

So I listen to Sheeray FX on you a lot and not to plug anything but I get a lot of that

kind of alternative music in my head and I'm like looking forward to see line up releases

to see who I listen to on that.

Would like to see them.

Cigarettes After Sex kind of the same.

Brittany Howard big fan.

She'll destroy the which stage when she's up there.

It's a strong which stage afternoon for sure.

Yeah.

I like late night if I could make it till 2 that would be nothing short of amazing but

I don't know.

You'll be on your own there.

I won't be there.

I've got a great melody.

Martina's shirt with a little baby rarely worn because a little baby's flipping the

bird.

It's the most funny shirt.

It does might go see her to see what she sounds like.

I've got her shirt.

I've never seen her live and then wrap it up with Sunday.

I will go and see the beaches.

I will see the beach.

I was going to say we're going together.

Patrick.

OK.

We are going to the beaches together.

I'm in love.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm all about that.

And if I am and if I'm still on site because I may be leaving early I may do a make and

Jason is Bell before I just get on the road and try to get home before midnight depending

on timing and weather etc.

I got stuck at year three at Bonnaroo after panic.

It was so I mean we got stuck in a swamp trying to get out of the out of the cave ground and

that poor work my way at my buddy's stuck.

I had to get tow trucked out.

I was in global before he even left the farm.

Don't know what the weather is going to be like but let's see what it is.

And if you're going to see the beaches I am all over it with.

Yeah.

And that's early too.

So we don't have to deal with any of that later.

I love the Jason is well that that's my closing show for the weekend.

But yeah man.

So cool having you on.

And thank you so much for being very responsive and patient with our juggling of all this.

But this has been a good time.

Thank you.

Thank you for giving up Sunday morning and very very informative and I think really an

important topic.

And this was great.

Thank you.

Thanks very appreciate all you all do and I appreciate your own podcast.

I'll listen to them and I like to keep staying in the know with all things monitoring you

do a great job too.

We'll be talking Patrick.

Thanks a lot.

All right.

So there you go guys.

That's a I don't know that we've ever done any shows this long before have we Russ.

Well I don't know how long it's going to be yet.

I haven't edited yet.

It's long.

It's long.

It's going to be long.

It's going to be up there for sure.

That's all right.

Yeah it was good.

I enjoyed every bit of it.

I mean the timestamps in the description so you know appreciate you guys sticking with

it because it was a lot of interesting information for me and I think for others as well and

an important conversation to have to just understand a little bit better and and to

know that that this this lifestyle exists and it not only exists it thrives.

And I mean the sober lifestyle at music festivals and concerts and I was 40 plus years in the

middle of my life and didn't understand that.

Right.

Like so it seems simple to many.

I mean they're it is wild.

You know you'll die anyway.

We'll talk to people and then and it's foreign to think well yeah of course yeah we go to

that show sober.

Yeah.

What are you talking about?

And so the more it's out there the more to understand it I think is is good for everybody.

I think that and I think it the we've done this show this show since 2018 and the more

we do it the more I realize how important this festival is to not just me but a lot

of people and it's it's fascinatingly unbelievable.

Right.

Now it's just it's just so great for it and it's for so many different reasons.

I mean the simplest thing of I met my wife there I mean we've heard that countless times

to friendships to organizations to whatever it might be.

It would help me find out who I am.

I mean it goes that deep for some people.

It's an important place and it's important thing and it's very cool.

This is certainly a very thick and heavy layer to the importance of a lot of the different

avenues of a lot of people don't know anything about.

All right.

What else like share and all that stuff.

Thank you.

Consequence and see you guys later.