The What Podcast
Bonnaroo Radio Takeover ft. Noah Kahan, String Cheese Incident & More
Published July 29, 2026
https://thewhatpodcast.com/episode/bonnaroo-radio-takeover-ft-noah-kahan-string-cheese-incident-and-more

Welcome back.

Welcome back.

Sorry.

This is the what podcast on Bonnarooo radio, WFTZ 101.5 FM rooster radio,

telehoma Manchester.

My name is Bryan Stone, cohost of the show.

And for this segment on Bonnarooo radio, a couple of throwbacks to when Brad Steiner

was the host of the show along with Barry Courter, I'll get you Noah con now.

And in just a few minutes, Tyrone from Rufus still sold.

This is the what podcast on Bonnarooo radio 101.5 FM.

I don't know if it feels cool to like have to have a lot of people listening to the

music and, and extrapolating their own details from it and like putting it into

their own lives and then seeing people kind of form a community around the music

is what it's all about.

I've been doing this for six years and you know, even when I was playing shows

for like 300 people, like less than that, I still saw like this amazing sense of

community in the audience and among the fans.

And I still see that same community as the fan base grows.

And I think that's so cool.

Like being able to feel like you're creating something that's creating

positivity and letting people, you know, vent their feelings to each other and

creating conversations around mental health and therapy.

Like that's so cool.

So if I can be part, I, you know, I don't know what part of the zeitgeist I'm in,

but if I'm doing anything and people are hearing the music and taking away their

own, you know, their own challenges themselves and finding ways to deal with

it, then I'm happy.

Well, you mentioned music is therapy.

The way that you write is so, I don't know, you're so introspective.

It feels like it's coming straight from your life.

How much of it is therapy for you to put some of this out?

I mean, every song has parts in the unit and every song is helpful for me to kind

of figure out what I'm feeling.

Sometimes I'll write things down.

I don't even know how I was feeling it.

And then I'll read the words like, Jesus Christ, I'm depressed right now.

Or, you know, like I, I am sad and this is sad and it's cool to be able to kind

of figure yourself out through songwriting.

So it's always been a way for me to process my emotions.

I also go to therapy every week, which is really helpful and allows me to kind

of have some clarity and lets me look about, look at what I want to write

about next within myself.

And yeah, I think what's mostly therapy for me is seeing other people feel better

about it and feel like I'm making a positive impact on people's lives, which

is just so cool and should be the goal of any artist.

And that's been, what's been the most healing for me is seeing people find

happiness through the music.

We have talked to people before who've said, I wrote a song that I never

maybe intended to be public.

It was just for me.

And then it went public and they were shocked and surprised that it

resonated with anybody else.

I think it started like the first time that I started writing songs about anxiety

and depression, which is because I was feeling such an overwhelming sense of

these things in my life.

And then I started putting songs out because to be honest, I had writer's block

and they were the only songs that I had written.

I was like, you know what?

These songs need, I don't have a lot of other songs.

These are the ones that are about sadness and the things I'm going through.

And the response was so cool.

And so supportive from everybody, you know, down to the label, down to my family,

but definitely to the fans as well that it inspired me to keep doing it.

And I always say like when I was younger and I felt like there was no one else in

the world that understood what I was feeling.

And I heard a Paul Simon lyric or a Kat Stevens lyric.

And for one minute, I felt like someone had figured me out and that someone knew

what I was going through and I felt like I wasn't alone.

And so when I sit down to write, I do try to be as vulnerable as possible.

And I never think like, oh, this song is going to come out.

But I think, man, if I could provide that little lifeline for some kid somewhere

that I got when I was in seventh grade, then I'm doing something important.

And the vulnerability is worth it.

I make music for me, but I really do also make it for the fans.

I think I'm not writing songs to cater to the fans, but they seem to like

when I talk about myself and I try to do that for them.

I think that's so interesting that you just said it that way, because so oftentimes

some of the songs that I love the most are the ones that crack the code

in words that I wasn't able to put together.

But then there are ones like stick season where you put me into this world

that was yours, you you transported me from my life and dropped me

into the middle of yours.

And now I'm experiencing everything that you're feeling.

And that is such a I love it so much, but I'm sure it could freak some other people out.

But that's the way that I feel that it feels like it's something that you were writing

for someone to walk around with you and see.

100 percent. Yeah, I I when I

tell people I'm from Vermont, they think I'm from Canada and they don't know where

Vermont is and they don't know anything about it or they think, you know,

Bernie Sanders and maple syrup, which are actually very big parts of being.

I was going to say maple syrup, that's so funny.

Yeah. And when I was growing up, I listened to Gregory Allen Isaacov,

who and I felt like I was like in the 1800s in Europe, like traveling around

around, I listened to Paul Simon and I would feel like I was in New York in the 70s.

And I would I love being a part of other people's worlds.

I have my favorite TV shows.

My favorite books are these like immersive world building experiences.

And I really did think going into this record about trying to show people

what it was really like, you know, the good, the bad and the ugly

about being in Vermont.

I wanted to bring people to a different place.

You know, like I said, my favorite thing about music is feeling like I'm being transported.

Phoebe Bridgers, particularly the new Sam Fender record, does a great job of that.

I think you feel like you're in this person's life and their neighborhood.

And, you know, my story is obviously a lot different, but I'm still from a place

that not a lot of people know about and not a lot of people have experienced.

And I was desperate to show people that place.

He is a closing headliner on the What Stage Sunday night.

He is Noah Kahan and he sat down, well, via satellite, as they used to say,

with Brad Steiner and Barry Courter just a little over three years ago.

This is the What Podcast on Bonnarooo Radio.

It's very interesting that you're writing it for a locale considering.

Well, let's put it this way.

What is the next album starts feeling like?

Are you trying to you're not going to take someone on another vacation?

You're probably going to maybe it's seasons next.

Maybe it's outfits, you know, you know, should be on Stevens.

Yes, I'm right.

And this album about every single state in the country.

And I think I'm not sure how many he got, but I'm trying not to set a giant endeavor for myself.

But what's been really cool about this record is some of the songs feel like they have a larger story to tell.

I think about a song like Orange Juice that feels like it tells a story about a moment

in time between two people. And I've thought a lot about of expanding those stories.

You know, maybe they go beyond New England, maybe they don't.

But I've thought a lot about expanding on some of those stories.

And I've tried very hard to not write about New England and to write about different places.

But I keep getting dragged back to it somehow.

So I have a feeling there'll be some New England imagery in the next project.

And I think it's a really interesting place.

And there's more than enough material to write about for the rest of my career in Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, Massachusetts.

It's obviously very defining for you as a human being, though.

For sure. Yeah, definitely.

It's like the gravitational pull.

It's also probably the most troublesome relationship that you've been in in your life.

You know, it's definitely been the longest.

Yeah, yeah. It's been a back and forth for sure.

I've moved a couple of times and I keep going back.

Are you still in Vermont then?

Are you in Burlington?

I'm in a Watertown, Mass.

But yeah, I was living in Vermont throughout the pandemic and then moved to Mass with my girlfriend.

And now we're a little bit closer to Vermont, which is nice.

I was in New York for a while.

And I don't know, there's something about New England and the cultural identity there that really feels right for me.

When you write this personally, if you don't mind, is there a song on there that is almost too personal?

The one that's probably hits way, way, way closer to home than you even imagined.

I think Orange Juice is pretty personal.

Just a lot about my struggles with addiction and addictive behaviors as well as addiction throughout my family and in my friendship.

And then also as a song that I had to dig deep into these unreconciled friendships that I have in my life, that was really difficult.

I put it into two different people, the stories that is not about me, but there's a lot of there's all of me in it.

And so it required a lot of truth finding within myself, which was hard.

And it was one of the only songs, there's another one that I have that I haven't released yet that feel really personal.

And I have a hard time playing them because it makes me feel like I'm back in that space of when I wrote them.

But also I find that the things I want to do least like therapy or singing about things that are personal to me are the things I need to do the most.

Just today, not to bring it back to therapy all the time, but I will send my therapist a text like, yeah, can we just do next week?

I'm like, if I don't want to do this right now, it probably means I should be doing it.

And so when I think about releasing a song like Orange Juice or a song like Howling, I find that the tension and the discomfort I'm feeling is usually an indication that it should be in the world and that it's something important for me and the listener.

His ascension to headliner status has been something to see.

He is Noah Kahan joining the what podcast about three years ago.

This is Bonnaroo radio 101.5 FM.

During that conversation with Brad Steiner and Barry Courter, we all found out together that that wasn't going to be Noah Kahan's first appearance at Bonnaroo, though he had not been on the schedule before.

Well, how does that work out?

This is the what podcast on Bonnaroo radio.

I went to Bonnaroo three years ago and my first record came out and it was like the most communal, awesome experience ever.

Like these festivals can be so toxic and like, I don't want to talk to any festivals.

Actually, I probably shouldn't do that.

But Bonnaroo is an incredibly, incredibly cool environment.

It was so fun.

The vibes were so good.

People were so kind.

You know, everyone was obviously like doing a bunch of drugs and stuff, but like people were still cool, kept their cool and were kind and supportive of each other.

So doing Bonnaroo is a dream and I can't wait.

I wish I could stay there and camp the whole weekend.

But wait, I don't mean to interrupt, but I did.

Did I mistaken?

Have you done Bonnaroo before?

Yeah, three years.

I did the super jam.

Yeah, I did the super jam with like Grizz and Rainbow Kitten Surprise.

How did you get on to that?

Who called you for that?

Dude, the Illuminati put me in.

I don't know.

I'm not supposed to talk about it.

The super jam is kind of like one of those places where if you're not like a fully developed artist or you don't have like a bunch of records, like they can kind of put you on for the night and like get you in front of some people in front of the bookers and everything.

And so I did super jam.

So nervous.

I sang the whole song on the wrong key.

It was like with this full band behind me and I blew it, but it was so cool.

And like the energy of Bonnaroo is incredible.

All right.

But you didn't have a Noah concept.

No, I didn't.

The Noah concept was me trying to find my way to the bathroom is when I was too sh** faced as the artist knows.

So you practiced at the Holiday Inn in the convention center.

We've sat and listened to that practice year after year after year waiting for our credentials.

What song did you screw up?

What do you think that you messed up?

I did Wake Me Up by Avicii.

And I don't know, man.

I was one of those things where you have so long to wait, where like all you can do is get more nervous, like drink more.

Like beer.

And so I was like, just getting like drunker and drunker and more dehydrated.

And like, by the time I was on, I was like completely uninhibited by how nervous I was.

And I was just like singing and I was like, I'm in the wrong key.

There's a teleprompter and I was like trying to focus on that.

I don't think it was as much of a disaster as I'm making it out to be, but it definitely was my brightest moment on stage.

Noah Kahan on the What Podcast with Brad Steiner and Barry Courter just a few short years ago.

Transitioning to another ascension to the What Stage.

Tyrone from Rufus Del Sol talks about the rise in popularity of his band.

This is the What Podcast on Bon Roo Radio.

Yeah, it's changed so much for us, like in a real positive way.

I mean, we're hard workers.

We work a lot, probably workaholics.

Like we spend a lot of time making music and it just forced us to slow down a bit.

And I don't know, it was a really nice reminder of the fact that we're friends, like we're three guys that are in the band and we're best friends.

We love making music and it was a good pause for us to kind of reset and rethink where we wanted to go.

And I don't know, we changed the way we write too.

Usually it's like in the past, it's been late nights throughout till the morning, just following the creative train, hoping that a song kind of is born out of it.

And this time around, we just we had more structure.

We did more of like a nine to five and it was 11 to seven for us to skip the traffic.

Still not waking up early, are you?

Still not waking up early.

Oh, well I am.

I'm a dad and I've got, I've got a little two and a half year old son.

So I'm up at five at the crack of crack of dawn.

Yeah.

Oh, congratulations.

Yeah, that's nice.

You said 11 years and you guys started in Australia and now you're in Los Angeles, right?

And you're got a child.

What's that transition been like?

I mean, I know I was reading a little bit, especially about the property where you recorded your first album, right?

Sold sold for a nice little bit of change back in Australia, right?

Because apparently they sold it as the place where a roof is recorded, right?

That's kind of funny.

But what's it like going from that to where you are now as far as like a band?

What's that transition been like over the years?

It's it's surreal.

I mean, I think when we started out, we had dreams and aspirations that were far smaller than they are now.

In Australia, we grew up in Sydney, so it was like to play the local kind of live venues there.

And then as you kind of grow our goals and the goalposts shifted and it's been like a steady climb.

And I don't know, I guess the biggest transition has been the last two, three years where we've where I'm a dad now.

I'm married and we we as a band, like if we were to sustain the way we were going,

we had to change some things.

This is just like so many shows and we were running ourselves into the ground and it was compromising the quality of the shows.

And it was also just like pushing each of us as friends further apart.

And so it's just been like a nice reset that wasn't easy.

It's been difficult.

And I feel like we're reaping the rewards just in terms of our friendship and the music making and and me just being a dad, too.

Like I didn't know I wouldn't have known what I was missing out on.

I would have been on the road being like, yeah, I'm a great dad.

And, you know, I wouldn't have known any different.

And realistically, I wouldn't have been in my son's life nearly as much.

And it's been a big gift that I get to wake up next time and and then go make music with with my friends.

You said it started about three years ago where you sort of realized you needed to do something.

Was there an event or was it, you know, was there one night where you kind of blew up at each other or did you see it coming and then COVID hit and it gave you the chance?

Storm that was growing.

It was kind of all directions and all all things were coming to a head where, you know, things were really exciting for us.

A lot of exciting things were happening, like playing a bunch of festivals in front of a lot of crowds, big crowds.

And, you know, I think just you inherently as an artist put pressure on yourself to create new things and make new music.

And we weren't really getting that time.

And when you're touring so much, your personal lives kind of push to the side a bit.

So in terms of becoming a new parent, for me, that was really difficult.

And I know for the guys, too, it was really hard.

So it was an accumulation of a lot of things.

And then just having been in a band for 10 years, or I guess eight years, nine years at the time, I think you just undergo change in that time period.

Like we were early 20s when we were when we got together and now we've entered our 30s.

And I don't know, I think you just change and evolve and priorities change and shift.

And it just gave us the time to kind of talk to each other and reset the clock and come at writing from a different perspective.

And I don't know, I just feel like great things come out of doing that.

This sound, you're not talking to somebody who knows what he's talking about when it comes to this.

No. So bear with me for a second.

When you were a kid and you were playing around and saying to yourself, I want to make a band, I want to I want to do this.

How did you stumble upon making electronic music?

How did you make how did you find that world instead of how a kid would normally just pick up a guitar and start writing songs like that?

Honestly, that's where I started was with the guitar.

I started on piano when I was like five and then kind of moved into playing in bands when I was 12.

And I always just wrote music kind of from 14.

I used any software I could get my hands on and just recorded more alternative kind of, I guess, like acoustic just songs, really.

It was just fun for me.

And the three of us produce and write the song.

And we all have a different story as to how we ended up like, you know, making the songs we make.

But for me, that was it.

And I met one of the John, one of the other guys, and he was making more club music, I guess.

And we kind of met in the middle and we were like, oh, you guys, you like Booker Shade?

And there was a few acts that we bonded over and Chemical Brothers.

Oh, cool. Yeah, we like I like that.

And then we just started making some songs and, you know, we would share our production tools with each other.

And there was a healthy push and pull.

And there has been between all three of us in terms of where we want to take a song.

And that, you know, for me, I'm probably more influenced originally by rock or, you know,

and John, probably more so like club songs.

He has an appreciation for pop and everything.

And James, he's kind of he loves he loves all music.

He's Polka. It's Polka. Yeah, I know it.

He's the glue. He's the glue.

For somebody who's actually done this overseas and in America, can you tell a market difference

between the European festivals and the festivals overseas than American festivals?

What is the difference for you?

We haven't done so much in Europe.

I mean, we've done a lot of stuff over there, but we haven't played many festivals over there in Australia.

I can speak in terms of Australia.

They're quite similar, really.

I mean, it's just that Australia is a lot smaller of a market, not in terms of landmass, but in terms of population.

Who's your favorite Australian artist?

Australian artist?

Uh huh.

Same Impala.

Ah, OK.

I was hoping to say Courtney Barnett.

It's amazing how many Australian artists have exploded over the last 10 years, right?

Whereas before, I mean, it just was not a fertile ground of bands coming out of Australia and then out of nowhere.

It feels like every time I turn around, there's another Australian band making some sort of noise.

That's true. Courtney Barnett is really amazing.

She's such a good storyteller.

And there is just so many great acts that are coming out of Australia.

I don't know.

There's a nationwide radio station in Australia called Triple J, and it's like an alternative radio station that you can hear hip hop to heavy metal to something more poppy to indie rock and roll.

Yeah.

And it's just like the full spectrum.

And I'd say for the most part, that's what if you're growing up, that's what you're listening to as a kid.

And so I think a large portion of Australians are growing up listening to a wide variety of music.

And I don't know what that does for a brain or like your taste in music or how that affects your influence in terms of what you want to write.

But I think that has something to do with it.

Tyrone from Rufus still soul on the what podcast on Bonnarooo radio.

This is Rooster radio 101.5 FM.

It is a Bonnarooo radio takeover.

My name is Bryan Stone, co-host of the what podcast.

Thrilled to be asked to be a part of the programming for the triumphant return of Bonnarooo radio at the what podcast on all social media.

We do this show year round, so we're always looking for different stories, different people to talk to from operations, administrative, past and present performers to anybody who has a Bonnarooo story for the next 20 plus minutes.

You will hear from the director of festivals and strategic initiatives for C3 presents.

His name is Tim Smith, better known to those in the industry as simply tuba.

This is the what podcast on Bonnarooo radio.

I've got a program in my alma mater that I put together.

Um, and the premise of it is just none of the careers that are in this industry or in any guidebook and in any, like it doesn't exist, but at the same token, you can be anything.

In the entertainment industry, you want to be a doctor where you can be a rock and roll doctor.

You want to be an engineer, you know, you want to be an electrician.

Like every single career and trade is represented in this field, not just festivals, but TV, radio, sport.

So there's, there's a ton of opportunity there and just trying to make the younger generations aware for me being, you know, the, uh, the beard is gray.

I've turned into the old guy as much as I like to not think that, but we all have in somewhere.

Right.

You know, and so, but getting more people into the industry is, you know, is something that we, we've all got to kind of do and work on.

So I'm always happy to do whatever I can to help students opportunities and awareness.

And, and really it's just stick your, get your foot in the door, go, go sling t-shirts, you know, for merch, go volunteer, just start, just start.

I started as a stagehand in college.

I'm pushing boxes and you know, that's, that's where I got the bug.

Some people start as a runner, but everybody started from somewhere, you know?

So I think, you know, not to be scared of the process, essentially.

Since we're starting here, this was at the bottom of my page of notes.

I made, let's stick with it for just a second.

You talked about your, uh, initiative for lack of a word, I other way and come up with the KU leap.

I'm assuming that's what you're talking about.

The accessibility program, um, that you started in 2018, according to your LinkedIn.

But I noted, I wanted to make a note of that because last year with, there was so many students and I hadn't noticed that before.

And if they had been there, I did, I'm sure they have, but I hadn't noticed it to the level that it was.

There was MTSU, maybe Tennessee tech.

I'm not sure how many other schools.

And I thought that was just a really, really cool thing because dammit, I wanted to do something like that.

I didn't, I didn't have it.

I fell into it.

I had a guy jump out in front of me.

He's like, Hey, you want to work at this theater?

I'm like, I don't know anything about theater.

If nothing else, I just wanted to have the access to hang out with people like you and sorry, maybe I'll and others.

And, and even if it didn't turn into a lifelong passion project and or career, it certainly would have been neat.

So that, um, that was, if you just speak to that, to that initiative you put together and how that's worked for you.

That was just born out of, I'm like, how do we just raise the awareness for this?

So I'll go back to the university at least once every semester to go just speak to a seminar that we'll put together.

Some of my best friends are still work at the theater that I got my start at.

And so they're happy to host.

And we try to bring in other folks from the industry to kind of speak and talk about their journey.

And then the students can apply for an immersion experience.

And what that is, is all expenses paid, we'll bring them up to Lollapalooza for probably five days.

And it's, it's kind of a, it's a, it's a little bit of a curated, curated experience that way to have them come up and see.

Lollapalooza and talk to all of our amazing staff.

They probably talked to 35, 40 people throughout that weekend and get to see the festival and just really understand what the industry is about.

So I donate some money to KU Endowment and then C3 is gracious enough to match that since it's a nonprofit.

So it's fully funded that way, try not to make sure we don't have a barrier to entry of, of your economic state.

You don't want to make this open to all.

So, so were you the driving force to do more of this student involvement with, with Bonnarooo specifically, or, or just?

No, no, no, no.

I mean, you know, Bonnarooo has always had a great history around this.

Like you said, with MTSU, Belmont is another one that does a lot.

So Bonnarooo has always, always been there.

You know, to, to the, to the degree for Bonnarooo, I just try to pour, pour gas on the fire and see how we can enable that better.

Jeff McCluskey, we've, that's where we kind of got our touch point with Jeff McCluskey.

Jeff does, you know, we've now rolled out his program, Festival University to, geez, I think we're at half a dozen festivals now and looking at more that we can do.

Just trying to get more opportunities out there.

Part of, I mean, this is why I wanted to start here because it's the, it's a passion thing.

I mean, I basically started my career in journalism because I found out I got to go do festival or concerts.

It's a really common story and I got a lot of that too.

Right.

Or the, or the failed musician, right?

I can't make it doing this.

So I'll do this.

I'm a little boat with.

But I mean, you find out, you get to hang out with musicians.

You get to go to events.

You get to go do this type of thing.

It's a different world.

I'm just saying this is the way in.

Talking with Tim Smith from C3 presents the producers of Bonnarooo about the best ways to get into the music festival business.

This is the What Podcast on Bonnarooo Radio.

But Tim was quick to make sure we understood it's not all just fun and games.

It's not all just seeing your favorite bands.

It's a lot of hard work.

You know, we're trying to paint a real picture of it though, too.

Be like, look, it's hard work and it's, you know, it's this isn't all rock and roll and just watching shows.

You know, I mean, that's surprisingly, that's very little of what I do anymore is see shows, you know, but I think, you know, it is real work, but it's that age old adage of you love what you do.

You never work a day in your life.

Well, that's a good jump off.

When did it quit being, hey, I'm schlepping speaker cables for my favorite band to I haven't seen a show in forever and now it's work.

When did that change for you?

And were you happy with that?

I think part of this is just, you know, I've been in the industry so long and I've just seen a lot of shows, you know, and so it's just, it's one of those like, yeah, I love the Foo Fighters, but man, I've probably seen those guys 30 times, you know?

So I think that's part of it.

And just, you know, also, you know, a lot of my role has been around, you know, safety and security and trying to see a headliner set or something.

It's like, that's usually when we're looking at egress and trying to make sure that we've got the outbound, you know, teed up appropriately there.

So, but as far as an inflection point on that, I don't, it's kind of been a slow process, you know, but I think that's the, that's the other message for the, for the, for the young ones to come in.

It's like, you can certainly be passionate about music and entertainment, but that's, that's not a requirement.

Yeah, be good at what you're doing, right?

There's, I mean, I still love, love what I do every single day, regardless of which, which show I'm involved with.

So his nickname is Tuba.

His legal name is Tim Smith, and he joined us in the 2025-26 Bonnarooo off season.

Who is us?

Well, us is me.

Wait, what?

Sorry.

I'm confusing myself.

Established in 2018 by Brad Steiner, Barry Courter and Russ Jackson.

You might know him better as Lord Taco.

Later now hosted by Barry and I, that's where I come into the mix, Bryan Stone.

Thank you so much for tuning into the Bonnarooo Takeover of Rooster Radio 101.5 FM.

And if you spend the year round dreaming of the farm, or at least reminiscing on past years you've had or missed this show just might be for you.

We talk a little bit of anything and everything that involves Bonnarooo and other things in pop culture and the music festival landscape.

Watch on YouTube or Spotify or just simply listen anywhere you get your podcast.

I can speak for Barry and Lord Taco and tell you, we are thrilled to be a part of the Bonnarooo Radio Takeover on 101.5 FM.

Speaking of what you do every single day, uh, Tuba, Tim Smith, your legal name, director of festivals and strategic initiatives.

What does that mean?

Fancy title that means, uh, you know, I'll, I'll catch whatever, whatever darts are thrown my way.

Logistics essentially, is that, is that one word?

You know, I, that's a good question.

Now you're forcing me to try to think through it.

So I'm directly involved in three festivals, uh, which is Bonnarooo, Swainyose up in Chicago and Lollapalooza.

So I'm either the festival director, the executive producer for those, those three, but then I also have oversight of all of our brands.

So that's including some of the internationals.

So the reason for that is because of kind of the organic evolution of C3 and how C3 has grown.

And we've, with Bonnarooo coming into our portfolio, AC Entertainment, Brad's, the Corys, the Brian Benson's kind of fold into our mix.

So we've got these different components and it's, it's my job to make sure that we're, we're putting the components together in a way that gives us a standard, you know, standardize is a bad word for it, but just a, a minimum standard for how

we, we produce our vets.

And that's everything from the nuts and bolts of gates and restrooms and things like that, but also down to, we've got a process when it comes to doing on sales and we've got a process around just how we operate the company.

So, and that just, that just gives us better information to be able to try to make decisions and try to see market trends to be able to follow and try to just improve the experience and the product for the, for the customer and the fan.

If I were to compare it to a sports environment, it sounds a lot like just kind of like the general manager of a sports team.

They have to deal with salaries.

They have to deal with the ticket takers.

They have to deal with the, the, you know, the, the landscape of the field, like a little bit of everything.

That's kind of how that sounded to me.

And so maybe the simple answer is just general manager of all things festivals.

It sounds like, and that's, that's, that's a long list, right?

I mean, that's a long list.

Yeah.

You know, but, but at the same token, like I really believe that, you know, C3 has got the best in the business.

And so I can't take much credit.

I'm just trying to help guide and just try to enable everybody to do their job in the best way that we can.

So, so things like ticket taking website, you know, safety, those things I assume can be pretty, pretty similar for events.

How much do you have to worry about Lollapalooza being different than Bonnarooo from a fan experience?

And I'm thinking like lineup or whatever, or you don't want them to be identical, right?

You want different experiences.

You know, I've probably slipped up by saying it's a, there's some templatization to this because it's really a matter of respecting the brand and respecting the fans and what Bonnarooo and Lollapalooza and ACL have been around for a

long time.

Yeah, institutions, right?

Yeah, you know, and so we need to, we, you know, we need to factor in the past and respect that, but also try to make these brands relevant for today's market and today's fan.

And so being responsive to that is and respectful of that, I think, is the key piece of that.

So, and that goes into new brands that we're starting, the Railbirds of the world, the Ocean's Calling, C-Hernals, those brands.

It's like, well, what's the origin story for them?

They're just there at the starting line.

So how do we make sure it's not just a, hey, we got stages in the field that are going to have a fan.

That's like, what do you, what do you feel when you go to these events?

What do you take away from that?

Cause that's ultimately what, that's ultimately what people want is the experience.

Well, the biggest thing you've done that we can noticeably tell and we from, we heard you talk about last year, we'll get to the specific specifics, but it's infrastructure with the farm.

And there's been a lot of changes over the years, but if you didn't know any better and you just, you had a, just a kind of a, an Instagram aerial view, right?

Like you wouldn't think this isn't that much different.

It isn't that much different, but from bathrooms, flushable toilets to, to the throwing in more asphalt where we're past, we're, we're dustier and just an earth.

A lot of times people don't want their, their sacred land messed with.

Everybody's pretty happy about the bathrooms.

Well, I think we can all agree on that, but, and you came in with under this title in 2019.

Is that correct?

Yeah, I mean, I've been with, yeah, I've been with C3 since 20.

Well, I've, I was a contractor before 2013, but I took full, full time in 2013 with C3.

And then first touch point was 2015 with, with Bonnarooo.

But that was just kind of coming in and trying to just learn.

I've been a close friend and colleague with Steve Feener, who is the festival director on the Superfly side for, for years.

I mean, he's, he's one of my mentors.

And so, you know, so that was really kind of that first, first touch point with Bonnarooo.

Well, my question was going to be mostly around the fact that if 2019, a lot of changes on infrastructure are happening and then 2020 is the ultimate change for everybody.

This is the what podcast on Bonnarooo radio, one Oh one five FM in Manchester, Tennessee, whether you're on the farm as we speak or sitting in your living room in middle Tennessee or listening online somewhere anywhere in the world.

We thank you all the same for joining the show today.

When live nation took over 51% controlling interest in the Bonnarooo music and arts festival, C3 presents replaced AC entertainment and Superfly.

That's where Tim Smith comes in, who is our guest on the what podcast and right now on radio Bonnarooo.

And as that happens between 2018, 19 and 20, well, we all know what happened at the turn of the decade for all of us.

And no, we're not talking the squarts just yet, but hang with us because we will soon enough.

Our guest is Tim Smith, director of festivals for C3 presents from the what podcast on Bonnarooo radio.

Let's go ahead and say it.

Come on now, bring it up.

I'm not. Well, I wasn't quite going squarsh yet.

Come on.

Well, let's go.

I quite yeah, we'll get there.

But what kind?

I mean, that must have been a wild time.

You're you're making changes because that's what you're going to do as far as we're just I'm talking changes like just aesthetically.

And then the 2020 thing hits us all and everything's now changing.

Every industry is pivoting just because they can for right or wrong, better or worse.

That must have been a wild time, too, because you were given maybe even more opportunity to make change,

because at that point, no one is going to complain.

They just wanted their bond.

Roo back. Right.

Yeah. Full transparency, you know, with with Bonnarooo, like this is this one of the greatest challenges of my career,

just because there's there's never been a handoff of a major brand.

So essentially what happened in that time period is that C3 stepped in and AC and Superfly stepped out due to the, you

know, the acquisition that way.

So and that's never happened.

There's no there's no, you know, there's no guidebook for it.

Like, how do you how do you hand off a major music festival that way?

And, you know, one of the most unique ones in the world, by the way.

Yeah. You know, one of the best.

So it's like and so that, you know, that prompted me to ask a handful of questions of just, you know, how do we how do we go about this?

How do we you know, what can we do to improve the the fan experience here?

And that that goes a bunch of different directions, especially with Bonnarooo of just things that I may see not being a

lot, you know, a lifelong Bonnaroovian that I'm like, oh, we got it's hot out here.

We got to fix. We got to fix the heat.

It's dusty. You know, and I pretty quickly realized I'm like, everybody knows exactly what they're getting into out here.

And these are problems that may not be fixable.

I think also challenging the team.

Why? Why do we do, you know, X?

Why do we do this?

And the only answer that's the wrong answer is because that's how we've always done it.

Well, that's true and everything.

You know, and so that that leads into a bunch of stuff where like infrastructure is boring.

If infrastructure is done right, you never notice it.

You know, and so but when you look at the customer experience coming in and having to wait just to get to the toll to be able to start

setting up your camp, whether that was six, eight, 12 hours in the past.

And I'm like, we just have to fix that.

I don't know how we're going to do it.

We've got to figure out how to fix that.

So we, you know, we went down the rabbit hole on both exterior and interior on how we how we bring cars onto the site, but also how we park them.

It's like we get a more efficient parking plan and a clear, you know, clear plan that way.

You know, again, it's all how do we how do we get the fans set up in their camp and enjoying the experience that we've worked so hard to build versus having having, you know, somebody waiting in traffic for that long.

But how much did that how much did it weigh in to because I mean, we've heard those stories.

People say I waited in line 14 hours and then I'm still going back.

I love it. You know what I mean?

I can't there aren't too many businesses that that can can say that.

I'll tell you, though, that that that was wearing off.

It was where I was going to say.

And and with with Covid that, you know, there's suddenly a shift of like all of a sudden people forgot if I could if I could take a time machine back and we could drive around the site on a golf cart in 2015 and then come back to today.

I think it would be, you know, I think it would be stark, you know.

And again, that doesn't mean 2015 was any lesser of an event than what we do this year.

But things like drainage, you know, the hurricane year in 2021, that was one that really just brought things to a full front where we need to we need to, you know, better position ourselves to be able to.

I don't know that we could take a direct hit from a hurricane.

But like if a you know, if it's a wet rainy year, we had to make sure that, you know, the the farm is ready for ready for people and safe for people.

And so that's where roads and, you know, like, I mean, the the main stage field that that used to flood.

I don't know if you guys remember that, like when it would rain hard, like it would it would flood.

And so we walk around from which to what was treacherous.

Yeah. So they put that bridge in for years.

That was like that, the runoff and everything else.

And yeah, I just see I'm assuming that I wanted to get to the twenty one year a little bit.

We can do that a little bit later, potentially.

But I'm sure you found some some exposure of of drainage that you wouldn't have seen.

Generally, we're pretty dry in June.

I mean, usually it's pretty dry.

I mean, we had some some bad ones occasionally.

But yeah, I bet that was eye opening from C3 presents.

It is Tim Tuba Smith on the What Podcast on Bonnarooo Radio.

And coming up, who is a genius behind the idea of the squarch anyway?

Hello, Bonnarooo Vians, and thank you for listening to Bonnarooo Radio on one oh one five F.M.

Manchester, Tennessee.

My name is Bryan Stone, the co-host, along with Barry Courter of the What Podcast.

Our producer and show contributor is Russ Jackson.

You likely know him better as Lord Taco at the What Podcast on all social media.

All right. So I need you guys and gals to listen to me very closely here for just a moment.

All right. You read, hear and see hyped up things all the time.

Targeted advertising coming after you left and right.

Everything telling you it's the greatest thing ever and you must stop and listen and

watch and buy and everything else.

And here comes another one.

I am asking you to trust me.

I know you have so many things to do today.

I know that time is of the essence and this weekend will blaze right on past with time

warp speed. Trust me, I understand this.

But if you have 20 minutes to continue listening to this radio station, one oh one point five

FM in Manchester, Tennessee, Bonnarooo Radio, I believe that you will be very happy that

you have done so in less than 10 minutes.

You will hear from one of the early organizers and how this festival came together starting

in the year 2001.

And right now you will hear the conclusion of our interview with Tim Tuba Smith, the

director of festivals and strategic initiatives for C3 presents.

And he tells you the story of how the squarch came to be as it was his idea.

This is the What Podcast on Bonnarooo Radio.

Part of the reason Tuba, we even know who you are, is because you spoke at to a group

of students last year and mentioned the squarch because one of the students said, what is

a lesson that you've learned?

Yeah, excellent answer, by the way, that day.

And yeah, I was an outstanding answer.

And you cop to it.

You were a big part of the whole.

I'll let you tell the story.

But and I bring it up not because it's funny and I'm being snide, but it illustrates to

me just how much this festival means to people and how something like an arch can

symbolize so many things to so many people.

Right.

From a fan point of view, from our point of view, from your point of view, it's it's

it's really pretty important.

I mean, we can ask questions or you can go ahead and relate your your involvement in

it. Yeah, can you kind of can you kind of timeline that one a little bit?

I can try to resurrect the timelines there.

But I'd like one of the things that we were looking at was how do we improve?

You know, what can we what can we kind of pour gas on the fire and try to augment or

improve with the festival?

And and the arch was one that's I mean, it's I'm not going to tell you guys anything

you don't already know that the arch is iconic to honor who gets redesigned every

year. But the reality that it set in when I started kind of poking my head under the

hood a little bit as I went and I went and stood inside the thing and the entire thing's

made of wood. And it's been outdoors in tennis in, you know, middle Tennessee for 20

years. And like, you know, a stiff breeze comes and you can hear the thin creek.

And I'm like, this is just I can't I can't look past this.

And so we looked at it and it's like, this is just this is not safe.

How far out was this from the show?

Was this was this month, six months out?

I think we started we started talking about it.

You know, I mean, again, it was one that we're like, how do we how do we just how do

we how do we bring the arch into today?

The pictures that surfaced on Reddit of it on fire when it was being burned, that

everybody lost their head about that was getting pretty close to showtime.

And it was like, what's going on here?

They're burning down the farm.

Well, I thought we was that Jesus, I'm losing the timeline.

I want to say six weeks. It was pretty darn.

Yeah, I mean, it was it might have been I think it was farther out than that.

It was a couple of months. But I think the that's still close.

You know, the yeah, too close.

And so, you know, the reality was like, OK, well, this thing's not safe.

What's the best way to take it down?

You know, like how do we deconstruct it?

And it's like, well, part of it's made it.

It's tender. It's tender.

You know, and so we were like, you know, and that's, you know, that's a miss

on our part of just like, you know, like, look, we'll burn it.

The thing the thing was on the ground in in less than 10 minutes.

Yeah, who is the mole that took the picture with you guys and sent it off to?

I mean, yeah, I mean, look, it's, you know, where that when there's smoke,

there's fire. You can see it from a long ways away. Right. So.

So that happened.

And then the whole intent was like, how do we bring in an arch?

We want to have one of a video component to it.

We want to make it more immersive.

We want to, you know, just bring this to life.

And as we were working through the structure side of that,

it started becoming apparent that it's like we're out of time to be able to

to be able to make this fabrication to do it right.

And so, you know, I was like, look, you know, I can come up with the design,

but with off the shelf parts and what that that's really what everybody

ended up seeing is just, you know, and the intent with that, again,

this is all with the best of intentions.

This was we wanted to really do something that was going to improve this for the fans.

And so I was like, well, look, we'll put a video screen up there

that literally is bigger than the old arch, you know, and then the ideas

started coming of like, well, we can we can go and render all of the old arch

designs in there, we can, you know, like the the the content options are boundless.

But it's also this giant black monolith out there

that just didn't didn't resonate.

And one thing that's that's great about Bonnarooo fans is they will let you know.

You know, and so this is my point again, it's not I don't mean it pile on.

I mean, people care.

It's the passion thing.

That's the whole point to me.

Yeah, for me, I mean, we came in early for the media walkthrough

on that Wednesday or whatever day it was, mainly because we wanted to get our eyes

on this on the squarch and in the daytime at noon or whatever time we were there.

Boy, I know I was being, you know, just snot about it.

And I was like, this is what they're doing.

And but later on at night in the next two days, I saw it from a distance at night.

And I was like, oh, the video screens with the video.

And now I see what they're talking about.

Now, I didn't know where you were going to make this.

I mean, incredible new led.

I mean, that thing, geez, man, what a what a job on the arch now.

My God, it's a gorgeous, the prettiest has ever been.

But I couldn't get that far at that point.

So even with but so, yeah, it was the it was a prototype.

I mean, essentially not a great prototype, but it was a prototype.

Yeah. Yeah. For what you put your for what your vision was eventually.

I mean, I think that, you know,

you know, the root point here is like we've we've got to be brave.

You know, the founders, you know, Rick and Ashley and Carrie and the team,

the bravery that it took to go out there in a field and do something of this scale

is just crazy. And so that's really kind of the ethos

of the Bonnarooo, but also the festival industry.

It's like you got to you got to take a you got to take a leap

and hope that it's something that resonates and sticks around.

And so and so how are we going to do that?

How are we going to continue to move Bonnarooo forward and evolve and make it better?

And so I think with that in mind, like the squarch was a miss.

But I think it's also one that like now can can live in live in Bonnarooo lore.

You know, so there's and that's, you know, that's not the only miss

that we and I have had with Bonnarooo.

But I think the list of things that we've tried and executed

to improve the festival is way longer than than the missus.

I could not agree any more with that statement.

He is Tim Tuba Smith, director of festivals and strategic initiatives

for C3 presents the producers of Bonnarooo.

My name is Bryan Stone, cohost of the What Podcast, along with Barry Courter

and produced and made all look very cool on social media by Russ Jackson

for the indoctrinated, you know him better as Lord Taco.

Our next guest is named Ken Weinstein.

He has been on the farm every year since 2002.

As a matter of fact, he was a part of the initial discussions

with the founders of the festival back in 2001

as his fledgling company, Big Hassle Media,

did the first publicity for Bonnarooo back in 2002.

Some years ago, Ken sat down with all of us at Camp Nut Butter

to tell us the story of how Bonnarooo became a thing.

This is the What Podcast on Bonnarooo Radio.

I get a call from Rick Farman and Jonathan Mayers,

who are both New York guys, and I'm in New York, and they came up,

they reached out to me and they're like, hey, we work with Galactic now

and you work with the All Stars and we'd like to talk to you about doing their press.

We're going to be in New York next week. Let's have lunch.

So this is in 2001.

And so we met at a restaurant called Communion on Broadway and 22nd Street.

And we're having a great lunch at the very end of the lunch.

It was really a fun lunch. We were really clearly clicking.

It was just, you know, we're all like, no, no, we all get along.

It's great. We still do. Right.

But at the end of the lunch, they go, hey, so just throw it out there.

We're thinking of starting this summer festival.

We don't know what it's called yet.

We don't know where it's going to be held.

But you seem pretty cool.

Like, would you maybe want to work with us on it?

And I'm like, I've never done an event before.

I've never worked on any event PR before.

And they said, well, we've never thrown an event before.

And I'm like, well, cool, let's do it together.

They're like, done.

So I have a file on my computer.

It's called proposals where I keep all my proposals and I do it by year.

And in 2001, there's still a proposal in my computer that says summer festival.

It's the 2001 part that's blowing my mind.

So you all put this together in a year.

They had already been working on it.

I know PR is usually the last part of the puzzle.

It's kind of like the health permit.

So they were ready to think about PR at that time.

Shortly thereafter, we were in a email chain about what should we name this thing?

And eventually they tell me where it's being held.

Next thing you know, we're announcing it and putting it on sale and sold out in 16 days.

Right. With no and we're like, what is it?

It's been a penny, right? No.

That's for you.

It must have been a really good PR firm.

Right.

No, see, that's the thing.

No traditional advertising.

Yeah.

And then they put up another 10,000 tickets and we sold out in a day.

So in 17 days at that time, we sold out, I believe, I want to say 60,000 tickets.

And then we sold out the next 10,000.

So we were 70K that first year.

The thing about that time period is and it's hard for a lot of people to relate to this,

but the Internet was just kind of coming around and it was getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

But we have to realize, of course, is that Fish, before there's even a Bonnarooo one,

has had six festivals, has thrown six festivals with no ecosystem to support it.

That was Fish's brainchild.

And they're like, let's do this.

You know, we think we can make this happen.

And Clifford Ball is born out of nothing, just a random thought.

And but a fairly good sense that this could work because people like to gather

and people like to commute. Right.

And like minded, you know, let's let's let's bring together people who love live music,

who love to be around each other and support each other.

And there was a community after six fish festivals.

There was a community that AC Entertainment and Superfly knew that they could tap into.

And there was also, by the way, a staff that had thrown these fish festivals.

There was an idea that that this thing could potentially work.

What we have to, again, realize, there's not really any Internet.

The Internet's not what it is today. Right.

So word of mouth, bands and fans at that point in time were talking

and in ways and and speeds unknown to mankind before.

And it was rapid fire.

Just like it was wildfire.

Just like as soon as people found out about it, one told the other,

told the other, told the other there were all these chat rooms, quote unquote.

That's what you know what I'm talking about.

Chat rooms, pre-reddit PR, pre-reddit.

It was an incredible thing to behold.

And I will still I can right now.

I'm closing my eyes.

I am on the main stage, Tray Anastasio day one.

And I'm standing with the partners, Ashley Caps and the four Superfly guys,

Rick Farman, Rich Goodstone, Jonathan Mayers and Kerry Black.

And they are holding up a glass of wine.

And we're looking out, looking out on the main stage.

Trey's about to go on.

And it's like, good Lord, what have we built?

And it was a big moment.

And I'm getting chills thinking about it right now, because it was seriously like,

Oh my God.

Oh my God.

Indeed.

Ken Weinstein, our guest on the What Podcast on Bonnaroo radio, telling us the

origin story of this wonderful festival.

Only about five minutes left of our discussion with Ken Weinstein, the founder

of Big Hassle Media, who's been doing publicity for Bonnaroo since the very

beginning and what has been discussed ad nauseum over the course of the last two

and a half decades by multiple generations is Bonnaroo is not what it used to be.

And my quick response to that is nothing ever is, but in this case, from the

jump, that was never supposed to be the idea that was never the blueprint to be

the same thing indefinitely recorded live.

The tape, as I like to say at Camp Nut Butter in 2019, this is the What

Podcast on Bonnaroo radio.

Something that Ashley has said to me over the years and to clear something up, you

still hear people say it's not what it used to be.

You know, it started as a jam band and it changed, but he has always said, you

guys went that route because those folks would camp.

The idea was to start there and then build it into basically what it's become.

Right?

I don't think you had the vision then of what it is today, but you knew you

wanted to broaden it and make it beyond.

You can't really be a jam band festival every single year.

And have much sustainability.

I wouldn't think from the level that it's gotten to now.

I mean, if it was just fish and tray and panic every year, I'd be here.

But I don't know about anybody else.

Right.

That's all that counts, baby.

He doesn't spend any money in center.

So I don't know how much he counts.

No t-shirts, nothing.

A couple of dollars.

The point I'd like to take out of that, the most, what's really incredible about

Bonnaroo is its fans and we could not be here without them.

They are the most special people.

They are full of open heartedness and love and kindness.

And they are the most open, open minded musical fan base since like the days of

the Fillmore East and the Fillmore West.

I mean, when the date, like when Santana was playing with Miles Davis and, you

know, it was rock and jazz, but it wasn't called anything.

It was what it was just good music.

And the thing is, is that the Bonnaroo fan base, yes, grew up with

the fish and the dead, sure.

But they also grew up with reggae.

They also grew up with punk rock.

They also grew up with indie rock.

They also grew up with world music.

They grew up with hip hop.

They like it all.

So yeah, it was a jam band festival because that was a touchstone that was for

connection, but that was only tapping a part of their personality.

There was other s*** in their heads.

That was a part of it.

So Bonnaroo grew out of their love of great music.

It didn't have to be tied to jam band only.

So when you guys are coming up with like brand values and you're saying Bonnaroo

is about this, was that instilled before Bonnaroo happened and before the fans

existed or the fans were to drive the brand values that you now have today?

I think I would say it's a bit of a mixture.

I would say starting with year one, even up and including my walkthrough,

Centauroo this weekend, like I am consistently blown away by these fans I meet.

I mean, I'm wearing a walkie talkie.

I've got this lamb in it.

I look like a narc.

Clearly I'm not a fan.

I'm, I work here.

I get high fives and smiles and thank yous and that has happened since year one.

And I'm always blown away by the campgrounds.

And I think that we responded to what the fan, who the fans are in their hearts.

And, but we also helped create guidelines, which they do inspire for sure.

You know, Bonnaroo, a lot of festivals are like four days and out.

They're like, they create for four days now.

Bonnaroo thinks 365.

They want it.

That's why we're here.

Bonnaroo is a state of mind.

We're a total example.

Bonnaroo is a way of life.

So this Bonnaroo vien code came out of it's kind of like the 10 commandments.

It's like, these are, this is something that you, it's how you get along on the

farm, this is how you get along in life.

But we were certainly inspired by that connection the fans had.

These were my first impression when I came here that in 2002 was like, these

are professional concert goers, professional campers, professional,

professional festival lovers.

They already knew there was this connectivity and ecosystem, which I said

that word before, but like there was this like way they were already communing.

We tapped into that, expanded on it and, you know, sort of tried to cement it.

You know, I've done this job 30 years.

And then there, there, there had become a sameness.

It just felt the same old thing.

After about the second Bonnaroo, it was like, now I remember why I like music.

And now I remember why I like live music and wow, there's all these different

things, as you said, I don't have to just like one thing, there's all kinds of

good music and all these, and I really give this festival a lot of that credit

for that.

And so I'm wondering from your point professionally, do you feel that as well?

Well, yeah, I do feel that way.

And I think the reason why you feel that way is because the founders, organizers

of this festival are first and foremost music fans, and they created a party that

they themselves would want to attend.

And they've got great taste and they've got an, the most honorable of spirits in

terms of supporting the arts really.

Yeah.

What you feel from that is, you know, you're out, I mean, we're all out till

three, four in the morning.

Those guys, those founders of this festival, they're in there with us.

They're out there.

I went to see Kukugaku Moyo.

Three of the festival founders were in the audience with me.

Right.

I mean, that's 1230, first band on.

They're out there.

They're in this.

They love it.

They created something they love and they continue to love.

I can still remember sitting at Camp Nut Butter and listening to Ken tell this

story of the origins of Bonnaroo and how thrilling it was to hear it from somebody

who was so close walking lockstep with the four original organizers and founders.

Of Bonnaroo.

He is Ken Weinstein, the founder of big hassle media, who is still PR

for this festival 24 years later.

My name is Bryan Stone, cohost of the what podcast along with Barry Courter,

along with executive producer, Russ Jackson, AKA Lord taco.

You're listening to Bonnaroo radio.

Bonnaroo.

Hello everybody.

Whether you're at the festival right now or somewhere in middle Tennessee,

listening to one to one five Bonnaroo radio takeover of rooster FM, or possibly

just listening online, wherever your travels are taking you.

We thank you all the same for this segment of the what podcast on Bonnaroo

radio, we talk to Patrick Whelan, the founder of harmonium and more specifically

to this festival sober.

Yes.

People actually do go to Bonnaroo and stay sober.

And if you need support while you're there, Patrick and his team at sober.

Have been offering that for nearly a quarter century.

This is the what podcast on Bonnaroo radio.

Well, I've been to every Bonnaroo.

So we had a table with the first Bonnaroo just organically.

We just took over a corner of a coffee shop right on one of the main drags.

She goes to the right of the witch stage.

And there was about 40 of us that came to see the dead panic fish, you know, and we

were all on the internet doing our own thing with those bands.

And because they were all at Bonnaroo, we all showed up together.

And when we just hung out together, we wanted to see the music, but we also wanted

to fellowship together.

We've done that at the corner for three or four years until there was an invitation

to take it to a different level.

But pretty much been there every year doing this thing.

All right.

There's there's got a lot that we're going to unpack in this conversation.

And I'm just going to say a few things and then kind of try to get out of the way.

But the reason this is important is because especially Bonnaroo has this image

of being this.

I mean, I can't tell you how many people ask me.

So you just go up there and just get drunk and get high and spend your whole week

stone drunk, whatever.

And, you know, for a week and maybe some people do.

But in my case, I'm like, no, I don't do any of that because the last thing I want to

be is hung over in a porta potty on the farm or potentially sick in any way or anything

that could really derail your time.

But that is the image.

Right. I mean, let's just go ahead and put it out there.

That is the image.

So it's important for this festival in particular, where we have something called

Soberoo. That's a name that's there on purpose.

But it's more than that.

You hit on it.

You want to see the music.

You want to remember the music.

You want to see the bands.

You want to have the same experience that everyone else does.

But you want to do it a different way.

So I'm going to go ahead and ask.

And then I know Brian has got a bunch of questions and I'm sure Russ does as well.

But explain Soberoo.

Explain this.

You don't just do it at this festival, right?

It's a it's a national type of thing.

So explain what you guys do.

So we're a fan facing public installation in the middle of Plantoo now.

They moved us a couple of times.

But that public facing installation, we're just interacting with fans that walk by

and we explain what we are, which is really just a group of fans that choose to come

to Bonnaroo without using drugs or alcohol.

We're not affiliated with the festival, any bands in particular.

We're not affiliated with a 12 step recovery program.

We want to make that clear.

We're not here to promote anything.

We're just providing a safe space.

It's a harbor for people that are there choosing not to drag or use summer

straight edge. Most are in recovery from addiction or alcoholism.

But we've had expected mothers.

We've had designated drivers at certain events, people that pop in that are just tired of

their friends that have had too much.

The nice thing is, is we've got seats and we've got shade or dry space if they want to

come in and hang out. So we're not just keeping ourselves as a little area off to the

side. We open it up as a lounge for people to come in and then we'll have recovery style

meetings for a day at Bonnaroo at noon, three, six and at midnight.

And it has grown at Bonnaroo.

We also have a campground out in group camping and we have a tent back there and we'll

have a sunrise meeting.

So that makes a shift meeting that we manage.

And we have a large 40 by 40 space that they give us, which is over by where the cinema

used to be. It's over in that fall quarter back behind the fence.

And they let us have access to take people back there from a kind of an anonymity

standpoint. So the idea is just support for people that come.

If 10 percent of the public population are in recovery, then 10 percent of 60,000

people are maybe at that festival that are also in recovery or affected by somebody

whose addiction or alcoholism has taken them to another fellowship that they want to

borrow time with us.

Patrick, take me back to the beginning since you've been there since then.

That's a good place to start.

The beginning, you said from the jump, this is what you were doing just to pry

personally a little bit. Had you had experiences, life experiences that led you to

believe that this was important going into a bizarre new concept like Bonnarooo in

2002. How did that launch that quickly that back then 24 or 22 years ago?

I think I'll take a step even back before Bonnarooo time.

Me and a couple of other fellows started this sober group that follows around Watts

Rotata called the Gateway.

And that was very organic.

That was similar to the war frats that followed around the Grateful Dead.

I got I got into recovery back in 97 after six months.

I thought my life was over.

I thought my life was over when Jerry Garcia died.

You know, and then I spiraled for several years into bad addiction and alcoholism.

I got into recovery.

And then in the summer of 98, I'm going to tell you right.

I'm going to tell you about bluegrass stuff.

So it's 25th anniversary and I went out there without any support.

But I went out there with some other friends that I had that used and drank and smoked

and did all that stuff. And we had a good time.

But I went to a meeting in town that day and I met some people that I'm still friends

with to this very day.

Just happened to run into folks that are in the industry or major, major fans that are

always on the road touring with people.

So I sort of lucked into that little group of people.

Time went by following bands, still wanted to go see live music.

Ball in a Roo gets denounced and we all decide we're going to go.

I live in Louisville on a three hour drive away.

It's easy for me to get there.

And we just showed up.

We started to kind of how do you find each other?

We found each other and we organized loosely sitting under a tree on the only tree maybe

in center where we could find.

And we had a little meeting.

And if you've ever seen one, you know what it looks like.

Patrick Whelan on Bonnarooo Radio, one on one five FM in Manchester, Tennessee, talking

about the origins of sober and those early days.

Well, fast forward to 2006 and Patrick and his group sober were approached by

Bonnarooo officials themselves.

This is a what podcast on Bonnarooo Radio.

Chris Crowell drove up on her little golf cart.

She was director of operations in the field at the time.

And she's like, what are you all doing?

I was like, oh, my God, we are in trouble over here.

I told her, I said, this is what we're doing.

She goes, OK. She goes, here's my card.

I want you to call me next week.

So I got on a call with her and she said, so I want to get you on another call with some

other people. I really think they're going to be lawyers on this call.

It's just like a season that says don't come back to our festival.

You're messing up the sale job here, man.

Your faces are on a wall somewhere.

Jack Daniels is over here not looking very proud at what you're doing.

I did not know what to expect.

But Rick Farman was on the call.

Nice. Know that name.

Yeah. Gentlemen named John DeRoe was on that call and he was the head of the Mount of

Police, the horseback, the Mount of Police.

He was from Texas, but he was a long time in recovery.

For people listening, Rick Farman is one of the co-founders.

He's with Superfly. So, yeah, that's a big deal.

I just want to make sure everybody listening knows that.

Yeah, I got on the call and I was just like, oh, what's going on here?

And then a lady who was president of Music Cares was on the call.

And then Chris, who put it all together and they asked similar questions to what you

just asked, you know, Brian.

But I told him what we were doing and Rick said, how many people do you think?

And I said, I bet you there's been 100 people come by our space and hang out with us

that are in recovery. And I think he said something along the line.

So you're helping me sell 100 tickets every year to my festival.

And I'd say, I'd say, Rick, yes, I am.

And so what can we do to help you out? Nice.

Yeah, that is super cool to hear, because to what Barry kind of led with is

the perception that everybody just goes to Bonnarooo to get all effed up.

At first, that was pretty true.

That was pretty true in two and three and four.

And after the the state patrol started to crack down very hard

in those early years, as you're on your way, they were going to leave you alone

once you got to Bonnarooo.

It's this magical place where police didn't exist,

but they existed everywhere else and they were going to get you if they could.

So the the thought process, I was 22 the very first year.

So that I mean, a child.

So the the new strategy was you don't bring your drugs.

You get them when you get to Bonnarooo, you let everybody else do the heavy lifting.

And you would walk down the unofficial official

shakedown street and you would buy name it.

You know, I mean, I'm not going crazy in the gutter here,

but what you needed, you could find.

That's not a thing anymore. And it hasn't been for a while.

Yeah, sure. Somebody's got something somewhere, but not the way it used to be.

I wonder maybe you have a feeling on this.

Did they they want to maybe try to keep that?

Even if it wasn't reality to everybody, the perception,

do they do you feel like that was something they maybe were wanting to

to get away from or did they just see a good organization that they thought?

This can also bring us sales and notoriety in that world.

What do you think to that?

That's a great question. I think it's a little bit of both.

I think they certainly knew they'd get some good publicity

if they ever wanted to point somebody to interview somebody at our booth.

And then here comes, you know, Fox News affiliated from National.

They're coming by and they want to talk to you.

And so that that would happen.

But also, you know, they're they're building a city.

Every festival has a city.

You have to have ways to go to the bathroom, ways to feed people,

ways to keep them hydrated, medical staff.

And if you're doing a city, you've got people that are going to need

the services that we were providing.

So I think they just wanted actually to incorporate that.

There's a lot of other nonprofits doing good work at Planet Roo.

They've been there for long stretches of time.

They, you know, why would this not be naturally

incorporated into one of those into that section?

This is the kind of thing that I think Bonnarooo does has done very well.

Pay attention. Yeah.

See an opportunity for something, you know,

and and how can we help and make it better?

One step ahead of trends. Yeah.

Or at least lockstep with trends.

And while at that time, I'm not going to even begin to pretend

that going to show sober was a trend.

It wasn't.

No, it was.

It was foreign as all foreign subjects could be.

We can maybe get to this these days. That's different.

And so I think leaning into that early

just solidifies that Bonnarooo stays ahead of the curve.

And Brian, I'm going to ask you and Brian has been very

open and willing to talk about his sobriety.

It's you're what?

A couple of weeks past the year now. Congratulations, first of all.

So both of you are the perfect people, in my opinion, to ask

this question as a as a outsider, if that's the right word,

because I still drink way more than I should.

How is seeing the Grateful Dead

fish panic different sober for both of you?

This is a great question.

I have an answer for it, Patrick. I want you to go first.

Speaking with Patrick Whelan, the founder of Sobri here on Bonnarooo Radio.

A little context quickly before we wrap up this segment.

My name is Bryan Stone.

I'm the co-host of the What Podcast.

And in February of 2023, I quit a lifelong drinking habit.

It was one of the hardest things that I've ever done in my life

and one of the best decisions I've ever made.

And I owe my life to countless people who helped make it possible.

And even though my counselors basically begged me

not to go to Bonnarooo, I wasn't going to listen.

I was going to go.

And that was a very strange year.

And I can't tell you how important and meaningful it was

to meet and then build a relationship with Patrick Whelan

and many of his colleagues from Sobri.

This is the conclusion of our conversation with Patrick from Sobri

from the What Podcast on Bonnarooo Radio.

I get to know everybody because I remember the music, you know, the next day.

I remember what happened. I remember the set list.

You know, I remember who I sat with and I remember most of the events.

But it gets me high.

Music has always gotten me high.

My first concert that I bought a ticket for when I was in high school

was like Prince and it was at 1999.

It was controversy.

It was like like 1981, you know, and I was just love going to see live music

and just couldn't get enough of it.

And then I lost.

I thought it was enhanced by my drinking and my using.

And then I lost my way through that addiction.

And then I've gotten off and I'm on the other side.

And like I still I really love the the environment around live music,

getting in past the ticket takers and the metal detectors and getting to the seats

and seeing people and socializing around it.

And then, boom, it's just that rush of just that first note.

And we're off and running.

And it's it's an adrenaline that I don't need, you know, drugs and alcohol for.

And I did not know that in active addiction,

because all I knew is I needed another drink.

My answer is about half of that.

And when it comes specifically to the jam band community,

because I am the same way to your point, Patrick, of yes, the fun,

the build up, the excitement, the getting through the metal detectors, you know,

I were almost there, you know, or getting through the arch.

We're almost there.

And and you just you feel it.

It's just like, oh, here we go.

You know, like that's still there.

That that didn't have anything to do with drugs.

That's I love the big event.

But when it comes specifically to the jam band community and I and when I say

followed, I mentioned that I think I said that word widespread panic.

That's not exactly accurate.

But I went to a damn lot of shows if they were between 200 miles

of where I live here in Tennessee, I was there.

I didn't go to, you know, Ohio to go see panic, usually.

So it was all flat footed floozy and chatting together that I'll never forget.

All right.

Memorial Auditorium, if I were to guess.

But so but to me, that music, that genre, which I still love, still cherish

Witten Saul, Sam Holt, who I won't bore everybody with who he is,

but he worked with Panic and he did a panic cover on here locally on Friday

and loved it.

But there is a certain part of it that is missing for me.

That music is designed for me.

To be a little spaced, I can't I can't get spaced organically

to the place that that music usually goes.

The stripped down rock and in the end, this stuff is rock and roll.

It's blues based rock and roll that's been turned into a different sound

into the 21st century.

And there's portions of it, primarily just the jam improvising

and the drums and the space with the dead and these things.

I get bored a lot easier than I used to, and that's not I don't mean that

in any negative way.

You can fix boredom.

You're bored.

Fix boredom.

You can do that if you want to.

It has affected me a little bit.

I still love widespread panic with all my heart.

Not super excited about going to a two and a half hour show anymore.

And it primarily I told this to a guy, a huge panic guy on Friday.

We were talking shortly.

It's kind of loud.

And I was like, man, I can't stand to be around drunk people.

I can't stand around people be like, hey, man, let me tell you about this thing.

But normally I'd be like, oh, my God, let me tell you about this thing.

You know, I'm that is difficult for me.

I granted you've got a lot under your belt, Patrick, and just amazing props

to you and doing that for how long you have.

I'm working on a year and, you know, a month and a half.

That's really not the best thing to do.

That's really not that long, actually.

So I'm still kind of trying to work my way into that, but I'm forcing my way in.

But I'd be lying if I didn't say drugs and alcohol made some of that music better.

Not that the music wasn't good and it needed elevation, just the the setting itself.

It was enhanced a little bit.

And maybe that's something I'm still trying to grow out of.

I don't know. What do you think?

First of all, can I just what a what a great honest answer.

And thank you for that.

Seriously, that's a great answer.

But yeah, Patrick, what do you think?

I mean, you've been around a lot of people who've been doing this for one month,

for one year, for six months, for six years.

What are your experiences in your conversations with people

who might be saying the same thing?

Yeah, I was I was a hallway dancer at Grateful Dead Country.

I was never a front row.

I don't dance in the hallway anymore.

I was a hallway spinner out of it.

And I loved it. I loved that energy.

You can always be like the same next show, same pocket of people, you know, and that.

I got I got to be friends with a lot of them.

They're still out there. They are still out.

We're just gray now, you know, bald.

But we're still out there spinning to concerts at shows.

And I just love that energy that I got in the like the one show at a time community.

The hardest, heaviest dancers are in that community.

And we migrate together.

We'll go take over an entire section over the portal one 17.

It's all the you know, the kids with the stickers on

in the next portals, the rolling alley where everybody's rolling their head off.

But we're over here and we mix with them.

We laugh. We're high five.

And nobody can tell that we're not the ones that are all messed up.

That to me is like being the life saver, because I think with that, it I feel like

part of me is dead and I can't get it back.

The hope is it comes back and you get it back.

It's all alive and it gets brought back.

Seeing live music does it for me.

But that energy around being in the moment, dancing with people

and like set break, dripping wet, you know, just who you know, can't

can't put a price on it.

And then still sober.

Patrick Whalen, the founder of Soberoo from the What Podcast

on 101.5 FM Bonnarooo Radio.

You are listening to the What Podcast on Bonnarooo Radio.

One oh one five FM Manchester, Tennessee.

Hello, Bonnarooo.

Hopefully you're having a great weekend, regardless of where you're finding the show.

We thank you so much for sampling the programming over the weekend.

My name is Bryan Stone, along with Barry Courter and Lord Taco, as we call him.

We are the What Podcast.

And if we're not at Bonnarooo, there's a good chance we are looking at

the next chance we can get to the Caverns in Grundy County on the backside,

the Nashville side of Monteagle Mountain.

Well, all three of us were there recording a show before last year's one day.

Barry and I took it back to the house as it was getting close to Bonnarooo weekend.

Lord Taco stuck around and this guy showed up dancing.

Man Chris, whether you know it or not, you have likely seen him on the farm

or somewhere else at a music festival.

And his story is wild.

This is the What Podcast on Bonnarooo Radio.

This is the What Podcast.

And I'm standing here.

We're at the Caverns in Grundy County, Tennessee.

And I'm here with somebody you've probably seen at Bonnarooo Caverns.

As a matter of fact, in the mountains here.

Yeah, it is beautiful.

This is Dancing Chris.

Is that what you're known as?

The dancing man and the people that have met me.

I'm Chris. Yeah, pretty much.

Nice. Well, I know I've seen you at Bonnarooo.

I went to Legend Valley one year and there's like 5000 people call me Chris.

I'm like, did something just drop on Instagram or something?

Because not everybody I have met everybody here.

So you've probably gone viral at least once or twice.

Well, in this occupation, you better accept being called the dancing man,

because that's what they're going to call you anyway.

So you better be good with it.

Tell us about yourself.

You've got a lot of wristbands on.

You've been to multiple Bonnarooo's, multiple festivals.

This isn't even half of it, right?

Oh, no, this is just like I don't know if the right word is compilation.

There's only one of each.

And like when I go to an event for the next year,

I'll take off last year's and put a new one on.

But they didn't all give cloth wristbands.

So this is just the last fest of each.

Here's the lock in from 2015.

That was the year I did 26 music festivals in a row.

26 music festivals in a row?

Well, that was just the summary.

I did the rest of the year too.

Oh, I'm sorry. Just 26 in the summer.

Well, yeah, one every weekend.

Yeah. I want to make sure if they had a Guinness World Record or whatever,

that nobody would be even foolish enough to try to outdo that.

No, I think you've got it.

Well, I got the foolishness part.

Yeah. And so I just all I did was apply it.

Yeah, pretty much. Yeah.

So you're going to Bonnarooo this year, right?

Yeah, because if I don't show up, I'll be looking in the obituary if I didn't show up.

So, yeah, I'll be at Bonnarooo.

Yeah, it'd be like it'd be like if the arch were missing, it'd be like,

where is he? You're parked here, you're camping.

You live full time out of your van, right?

Yeah, there's no backup.

It's just me. I'm the last hippie standing pretty much.

Yeah. So my van, I follow the Grateful Dead.

I think that's awesome.

You go across the country. Yeah, the Grateful Dead is still playing.

Yes. Yeah. So no fixed address.

You just go and wherever you're at, that's that's where you're at.

No family behind me, no property.

It's just me and my appreciation for other human beings.

And I thrive on that.

And when I see what I see, you know, what everybody else does,

they're going to work and trying to keep property and paying taxes

and going to work and cleaning the gutters and and doing boring

and wasting their life scrolling on Netflix or whatever the fuck they're doing.

I realize that this may be a trepidatious way to live.

There's no backup. It's just me.

But when I see what the way other people are living on, like the wall,

it's not even I don't want to.

I got kicked hard to get here.

I lost everything.

And it's a really, really long story, which we won't get into.

But had I not been kicked out of the life I had before

three or four times, I've been kicked out of my prior life.

Then I wouldn't be in this position.

Yeah. When I compare being able to do this, go across the country

and meet all these beautiful people,

then I realize it's the right thing to do.

It gives you an appreciation for it after you've lost.

Well, it's sort of like it's sort of like a I said, all English sheepdogs.

And before I was a dancer, I was known for my sheepdog.

And if I go someplace and my dog, one of the others, always asking me.

And I never had him on a leash in his whole life.

He was never fenced in or anything.

Well, I told him he could go out after 10 o'clock.

But he has to be on the step at six o'clock in the morning.

And he did.

But I knew he could be killed at any time with that.

I told him about the street.

He knew about the street. We looked him dead in the eye.

He'd been taught that.

So I trusted him.

I mean, I know he's going to be out all night long.

And he's looking for the ladies.

He's a ladies man. And that that he's going to be crossing streets.

And I knew he could get killed.

He was always next to my knee when I was walking.

But I know he's all night long. He's crossing the streets.

And I would rather let the dog run free and get killed at a young age

than to sit under the couch his whole life.

And that dog that dies at five years old,

that's seen the world, has seen more than the dog that lasts till 20 years old.

And that's the way I see it with my life.

It's the same thing.

I want to embrace the unusual and take it for everything it is.

And again, all I have to do is compare what everyone else.

I went through this town in Florence called the villages.

For anybody who doesn't know, bring a vomit bag before you come to the villages

because they're all riding around in golf carts and stuff.

These I've heard of this village.

The villages. I see what they're doing.

They're all living in these McMansions and stuff.

And it's deplorable, the materialistic way that they live.

It's why we come to festivals for open minded people.

That's why we do it.

It's good. Piles are about people. They're not about music.

Don't string cheese this year. This weekend.

Don't tell string cheese.

But the festivals are about a celebration about life.

That's that's what festivals are.

Humans are an animal.

And we happen to be the only animal that throws a party in celebration of life.

And a music festival is a celebration about humans.

And their interactions and life.

It's so true. Yeah.

Well, we need the music.

I mean, somebody invite string cheese.

I mean, pay the band, please.

But it's about it's about people.

That's why we're here.

It's about people who are thinking differently or doing different things.

So tell me about the dancing.

Did you just get up and start dancing at one show and then?

I guess you guys, I mean, I have no problem explaining this.

I'm very open person.

It's just like some people are going to find this somewhat bizarre,

but that's just the way my life runs.

No, you bizarre.

So anyway, it's a question.

I like my first girlfriend.

I married my sort of my first girlfriend.

And I married a stripper who got kicked out of law school.

Well, after she tried to extort the married professor, she had sex with him

and he kicked her out.

Yeah. She was a very sweet individual.

A real gold digger.

And we're just getting started with Dancin Man Chris

here on Bonnarooo Radio as Lord Taco tracked him down at the Caverns

last fall.

And more about that first wife and more bizarre zaniness

from Dancin Man Chris.

This is a what podcast on Bonnarooo Radio?

Anyway, I was her third husband and

she was a sociopath, a narcissist,

a drug addict and an alcoholic.

Smart and vicious.

And she put me in jail nine times trying to get the name on the title

to my house that was paid off.

Wow. And when I wouldn't put her name on the title of the house,

she would start beating on me, hoping I would hit her.

And I would not.

And she figured out, oh, I'll just call the police anyway.

They'll come. And he's a guy.

He's going to get arrested.

She'll be crying. And sure enough, that's what happened.

So anyway, 10 and a half dumb years later, I divorced her.

I lost all my property, my apartment buildings, my two houses on the lake,

my car collection, everything.

And I was living in my car.

And I was really happy because she used to tag me in the middle of the night.

Her name is Peggy. If she wants to sue me.

Yeah, because the truth is the ultimate defense.

And so anyway, I realized, wow, I'm still alive.

She couldn't take me. I still got myself.

I still I'm still alive. One.

And I still got my soul, too.

And so I was so happy I started dancing.

You would, too. I was. Yeah.

I was dancing in celebration.

And if you pay attention to my dance, most of them are in reverse.

I'm still backing away from her.

So what happened?

This what happened was I went up to the Wisconsin State Fair

and I'm just I just want to dance.

And I I started dancing and I just never, ever stopped.

In fact, that's where I got these sunglasses.

Wisconsin State Fair on a Thursday afternoon.

They had all these tents out on the lot.

Yeah. Big white tents.

And I go into one tent and the only people in the tent are me,

the bartender in the band.

And of course, I'm dancing immediately.

I'm just like, I'm so happy to be alive.

I'm I'm on it.

And a couple of songs in the lead singer, he bends down on the stage

and he picks up these sunglasses.

He goes, here, put these on while you dance.

And that's where these stupid sunglasses come from.

You haven't taken them off since.

Well, the problem is, the problem is for us, you can't.

If you if you take them off, then everybody's asking where they are,

even at two in the morning.

And and so they sort of become a part of my.

Yeah. Well, I don't really want to be known for these glasses,

but they're they're a great conversation starter.

And so that's pretty much what started the whole dancing.

I I was homeless and happy to be alive.

And I knew I wasn't going to stay down.

I've been kicked many times in my life,

and I always know that I'm not bring myself back up.

Wow. What a story.

And you've been through a lot.

What's more than that?

Much. Yeah, I'm sure there's more.

But yeah, what what advice would you give to somebody

who is maybe dealing with some they, you know, like you?

Maybe they've gone through divorce or, you know, lost a really good question.

Yeah. Well, the answer is simple.

I'd never thought of a question like that before, but the answer is simple.

It's extremely simple.

And this applies to your whole life.

Not no matter what situation is, you always have to have confidence in yourself,

because if you think you're beaten, you are.

If you dare not, you don't.

If you think you're going to lose, you've already lost.

That's so true. Yeah.

And the difference between a person that merely survives

and the person that thrives is the person that has the confidence

that whatever comes in front of them.

OK, you haven't seen the situation before,

but you have the confidence in yourself that you're going to do it.

And the inverse is horrible,

because if you don't have confidence in yourself,

then you get defeated.

And now you start getting a scorecard in your brain that,

oh, I, you know, I could lose at this.

And so it's a self-fulfilling prophecy that you don't put out the effort

to know you're going to win.

And you send yourself down a path of losing because you're you've gotten used to it.

I don't accept losing.

I've been kicked many times, and it's taken me years to get back on my feet

the whole time I knew I was going to get back on my feet.

And every single time, and this may be the advice to the people.

Every single time I've gotten back up, it's a lot of work.

I always knew I could do it.

But every single time I came back, I was in a better position

than I was when I started out. Yeah.

And I never would have gotten there had it not happened.

So you have to have the confidence that whatever is going

situation is in front of you that you're going to tackle it.

And sure, you will. You will.

So I've I've lost time and money.

And the alternative is stick it out.

Have confidence, be confident, always never, ever, ever.

Don't ever doubt yourself.

Nobody knows what's going on in this world. We're all different.

There is no normal.

We all got different DNA and we all got different memories.

Our memory banks are our experiences in life.

And that's what makes people so unique and enjoyable

is that we're all different.

And you can learn from every single one of them.

But not one of those people is doing the right thing.

There is no right thing.

Don't worry about what's right or wrong.

Just persevere and have confidence

because the next guy doesn't know what the fuck he's doing anyway.

Don't follow them.

They're not necessarily doing the wrong thing,

but they're not necessarily doing the right thing either.

Don't follow the other person ever.

You see a majority of people doing something gets over 50 percent

guaranteed whatever the majority of people are doing is wrong.

Well, I'd say it's worked for you.

I mean, you definitely.

Ever. Look, I used to go to work

and I'd be in rush hour traffic.

And I'd say to myself, well, I must be doing the right thing

because this is what everybody else is doing wrong.

They're watching TV.

They're wasting time on Netflix.

They're whatever they're doing in their life.

Up against the clock. Got to move fast.

This is Bonnarooo Radio and the What Podcast.

Finishing up with the dancing man, Chris.

They're missing out on the real stuff.

Don't take guidance from other people.

Yeah. Well, you've obviously recognized that Bonnarooo

and a bunch of other music festivals.

Do people come up to you and want to dance with you?

Is that all right?

That's the whole idea.

The whole idea.

No, I'm when I'm when I'm when I'm in a festival.

First of all, I have no inhibitions.

OK, so I don't worry about what I look like.

I just threw the word out of my memory.

I don't have inhibitions.

So and second of all, wherever I go, I because I have no inhibitions,

I always have the most fun of anybody. Always.

But when everybody else is having a good time, I have an even better time.

We all have a better time, but I'm on top.

I work for it.

Yeah, you definitely did.

So when I'm at a music fest, I'm on duty.

I'm I'm working.

I'm acting as a backup artist for the artists that are up there playing on the stage.

Yeah. Yeah. I saw you last night.

I'm the cheerleader for the band.

Although Strinchit doesn't need my help.

Bless their heart.

They did fine.

They can they can make it on their own.

They can get their own food and try their own shoelaces.

They're fine.

But I'm there to.

Encourage the people to let go and realize that life is really short

and that if you're not hurting anybody, you can do whatever you want.

And you got to do it right now, because tomorrow goal and next,

you know, your life is over.

And so I go through the crowd.

I try to find people that are at the festival that they're not dancers

or they didn't come specifically to dance.

And I can tell who they are.

And I will dance somewhat near them

and they'll see how happy I am.

And they'll start to loosen up and give me about a half an hour.

And that guy or that girl will be dancing, will be dancing.

There you go. Yeah.

So if somebody recently left, there's three or four fast.

I've gone to I it's my creator to dance with as many people as possible.

OK, so somebody sees you in a crowd.

They shouldn't be too shy to come up and say, hey, talk to you, dance with you.

I have no inhibitions, no care in the world

other than that we're at a music fest and we're here to celebrate.

Let's dance and let's celebrate.

I'm completely loose.

I don't put out any feeling that causes the other person

to remain in their shell.

I draw them out.

And so I'm working the crowd the whole time.

You always see me going through there.

And and the last couple of fest, I've danced with more guys than I have with girls,

which sorry, girls, but it's the guys can be fun, too,

because you didn't expect them to dance.

And I'll try to pick out a couple.

And what I'll do is I'll come from the side where the girl is.

I would have to know is I don't pay any attention to anybody who's not dancing.

You're like a tree. I'll go around you.

I'll never acknowledge you're there.

You're dancing. I'll see you immediately.

But you're not dancing.

You can only bring me down to your level.

You got to come up and meet me. Come up to your level.

That's the whole idea. We're here to celebrate.

Let's celebrate. I'm celebrating.

Join me.

And so what I'll do is I'll go, I'll pick out a couple

and I'll go, I'll come in from the side where the girl is.

And she's going to expect that I dance with her.

It's just the way girls are.

Which we like about them.

Yeah. But I'll go right past her, ignore her.

And I'll stop in front of her boyfriend.

And the next thing you know, her boyfriend and I have been.

And I go real slow.

This is not a contest.

And they see how relaxed I am.

And they let go.

And then you look over and you see the look on the girl's face.

It's like, man, I've been trying to get him to do that for the longest time.

All it took was you.

I have over 10,000 people come up to me a year.

I was going to say, you're pretty.

They fought up to me.

Banner, they're going to be flooding up to me.

Yeah. And thousands per festival.

And they all say the same thing. Bless their heart.

I and they tell me how happy I make them with the dancing.

There you go. Come say hi to Chris.

And if you see him out at Banner.

Put it out once and it comes back 10,000 times.

Well, thank you so much.

This has been great to meet you and talk to you.

And just so happens that your camp just, you know, down the road from me,

just ran into each other.

It just so happens that string cheese put on this great cave jam.

And they're going to be playing two more sets tonight.

They sure are. Yeah. Sounds dope.

Wrapping up with the dancing man, Chris,

tracked down by executive producer of the What Podcast,

Lord Taco at the Caverns late last year.

Take my advice on this one.

If you're from the South, make a trip to the Caverns.

You will not be disappointed.

All of us at the What Podcast agree it is our second favorite place,

our second home away from home.

And thank you, dancing man, Chris, for the perfect segue.

As string cheese incident was the headliners at Cave Jam that night.

Coming up, our conversation with Kyle Hounsworth,

the keyboard player for the aforementioned string cheese incident.

Happy Bonnarooo to you from the What Podcast

and all of us at Bonnarooo Radio, one oh one five FM in Manchester, Tennessee.

My name is Bryan Stone, the co-host of the What Podcast,

along with Barry Courter and our executive producer,

Russ Jackson, AKA Lord Taco.

And we do this show pretty much year round.

We take a few weeks off here and there, but not all that often.

And sometimes in the fall, not a lot going on.

And we just start poking around all over the world of entertainment.

And through our connections of working Bonnarooo all these years,

we were hooked up with the keyboard player of string cheese incident.

His name is Kyle Hounsworth.

And the story of how he became a member of cheese is good enough.

We bounce around a lot of random topics.

And the Kyle Hounsworth band has a new record out in twenty

twenty six, which you will hear about here shortly.

This is Rooster Radio one oh one five FM in Manchester, Tennessee.

And a Bonnarooo takeover with the What Podcast.

Where do you want to start?

You want to talk about the new record?

You want to talk about the beer?

You want to talk about past Bonnarooo's?

I don't know. Your own festival.

You started your own festival.

We can. I mean, where do we want to go?

You know, we could do is talk a little bit about cheese, maybe first.

Oh, yeah, please.

And then we can kind of work our way into the new album.

But you guys ask me, you tell me.

I have a specific question.

I can start with this if you would like, if we're starting with cheese.

Let's do it. I got one, too.

Early on, Kyle, you joined in the late night, mid to late 90s, right?

Sounds about right.

Yeah, six ish, 97.

So early on, they're the blue string, the blue string cheese band.

And they're primarily a mostly traditional bluegrass band.

And they were making the transition.

I don't know when the decisions were made or how it went, but roughly in that time,

ninety five, ninety six into a more I'll call jam friendly, a little more

outside of the of the traditional bluegrass box.

And around that time, you find yourself moving east to west

towards Colorado and Boulder.

How does that come together that you are one of the very integral pieces

of changing that bluegrass traditional sound into what string cheese became then

and and went on to be quite well known for for the next couple of decades?

Well, I'm so glad. Can I jump on that one?

Yes, that is my question, too, because about that time, if I'm correct,

Grateful Dead is their own universe, right?

And so the further is kind of thing more and they are post literally their own universe.

And so my question is, was

did you guys feel like there's this question out there about who's going to be next?

Well, there's two questions there.

But the first question, yes, sir.

I moved from Baltimore.

I had been listening.

I got my jazz piano degree and I discovered someone called Bela Fleck

and the Fleck tones, the Cosmic Hippo album with Howard Levy playing

keys and harmonica.

And I saw the first horror tour and they were on that horror tour.

I was living in Maryland still.

So at that point, right around that point, I was also

I'd been coming up to Colorado, work on the Colorado Trail,

help building it.

So I decided to come out and just spend a real amount of time, maybe just a summer.

And at that point, I hooked up with some.

I already had my degree, but some liquid sunshine or some kind of like

grateful dead band here.

And Dave Watts, who is a great drummer from the area, introduced me to Michael Kang.

So Michael Kang then persuaded me to join String Cheese.

Actually, my band, Dirt, at the time, opened for String Cheese.

So as we as I joined String Cheese, it wasn't completely out of the.

It was kind of out of my wheelhouse how to play bluegrass,

but I had been turned on to it via Bela.

It wasn't, you know, Bela at that point wasn't super traditional,

especially on that album.

And then once I met Billy, I started really in playing

Telluride Bluegrass Festival, I started understanding.

The depth of the music.

So we started playing around the area.

We started heading to we did this big

infinity sign across the United States.

We played 320 shows a year or something for the first four years.

And then answer your question.

We didn't there was there wasn't that I guess there was a hole,

but there's a lot of jam band still.

You think there's a lot now, but back then there was definitely a lot of jam band.

So who was going to fill that void?

Fish obviously was already there.

They were young, but they were definitely powerful.

I've always said that there's been a

east versus west, kind of like the rappers thing.

East Coast was with the harder edge jam,

widespread fish, a little harder New York raw.

And the West Coast was like Jefferson Airplane, Grateful Dead,

a little bit more trippy this.

And so we kind of fell into that because of the way we were jamming.

So when we went to the West Coast, we started connecting with some of that.

We knew Barlow and Mountain Girl and some of the Zen tricksters.

So that they kind of brought us into the fold from there.

But we were definitely more in that zone.

So I think we kind of got it pulled into their world

more so than maybe widespread would have been pulled into the world.

I don't know if that answered everything, but that's

you know, kind of did. I didn't I didn't really think about it.

Bluegrass is sort of the.

Tipping, right? Maybe.

Yeah, with Jerry, right?

There's the trippy, but then there's bluegrass and it's more maybe more East Coast.

Maybe or or I was thinking more bluegrass

and the fact that didn't hold in the way and Jerry was playing banjo, right?

Yeah, Jerry was was the the bluegrass guy, the band all those years.

And maybe that was somehow worked at way.

And I don't know.

Yeah, that's why I'm guessing now one of the most popular

covers of any bluegrass outfit is generally Grateful Dead music.

And it translates so well. Yeah. Yeah.

You talked about it in a quick interview.

I just did some searching around.

I didn't dive too far in anything, Kyle.

But you talked about when you were first moving or traveling east

to to tour the the eastern seaboard ish in that area

and thinking nobody knew who you guys were.

So I think about the same time frame, late 90s.

And you talked about that.

It was to me, it was a different version of tapers because I was online trading tapes.

We weren't going to shows, setting up microphones and taping.

But we were gathering the tape live tapes and then sending them to our friends.

And we were doing that all the time.

Ninety four, five, six, I'm 14, 15, 16, 17, 18.

You found that same kind of phenomenon as you showed up to shows in the east

and Boston and Massachusetts, Maine, wherever you are.

And people were sitting around with cassette tapes of your of your shows.

Could you talk about that?

That blew me away.

I mean, of course, I knew about the tapers, the taping tree, the generation.

Sure. But to me, this feels like a new age version of the 90s.

So I knew going into the when I moved to Colorado, I had all the killer cassettes

from the dead and 74, all that stuff.

But then we started playing with string cheese that went next generation

and ended up bringing fans to the show for the very first time.

Who had never seen us were traveling, like I said, 320 days a year.

And we get to Burlington, Vermont or Boston, and they're still selling 100 tickets.

We're like, you've never even heard of the band.

I said, no, my buddy sent me a tape in the mail.

So, yeah, the tapers thing was was so part of who we became.

You know, that that really helped.

What was that universe like?

Because it was for us.

I mean, we're so involved in the Internet.

I mean, we're so social media.

But that what what you guys are talking about, it was way underground.

Right. I mean, it was like you could show up at a town

and everybody already knew who you were.

And you had to be like, how?

How do you even know who we are?

I mean, yeah, I was also tapes.

But how can that be enough?

And to me, like I was already nervous.

It was my first tour with a random band with a terrible name.

Who thought of String Cheese Incident?

Now, that's pretty funny.

And I got to admit, the first time I heard of the band String Cheese Incident,

I thought the same thing.

The hell kind of name is that he is Kyle Hollinsworth,

the keyboard player for the aforementioned band String Cheese.

And he was on the What Podcast last fall.

This is Bonnarooo Radio.

And one thing that my cohost, Barry Courter, and my executive

producer, Lord Taco, can all agree on is a bad name.

That's on the record, but I'm not the only person who thinks that.

I say I never thought we had a horrible name of our podcast.

So anyway, I was like, OK, I may all try this.

And then and then we've gotten this bus and we're traveling around

in an old ski bus.

And and I was like, man, this may or may not work out, but I'm getting paid.

And it's better than like working at a shipping store in Boulder.

But then we started getting there and having fans already on site.

That was amazing. And then, of course, you sign up your physical address

and we send you a mailer, no emailers.

So at the back of the bus, we'd be like writing, you know,

John Doe, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And the next time I was one of the kids, guys standing around trying to make sure

you get my whatever my street address to my favorite bands.

Exactly. The mail, the snail mail or whatever.

That was absolutely me.

It's why I find it so fascinating.

Didn't know it was a cultural phenomenon across the country.

I couldn't have known because AOL would only let me talk to a certain amount of people.

Did it kind of freak you out when you, you know, played, you know, Denver

and there's Bryan Stone wanting an email or an address.

And then you go to like Knoxville and there he is again.

I mean, that had to be kind of crazy.

That started happening, you know.

And then I was like, OK, something's there's a buzz.

When that started happening, when people started following us around.

The first thing we did is we hired them.

Boogie Brooks.

Well, it's 25 years later. I could still use a gig.

Boogie makes a good grilled cheese sandwich, apparently.

Our guitar tech Boogie Brooks

Aparlo has been with us since the very beginning.

And he he would follow us around the country in ninety nine, ninety eight.

And then we're like, dude, just help us.

Like, so we put a terrible job.

We're going to rent a rider truck and you follow us.

So he started driving the rider truck full of I think was lights at that point.

And then all of a sudden he's been, I don't know, he's been with us

probably 32 years, 31 years and crazy.

I often ask this to a lot of newer bands getting into the jam scene

because it feels like they don't want to be called a jam band.

And I'm just curious as to what they think.

Do you consider the music that you make with String Cheese Incident

as a jam band outfit?

Yeah, I've embraced it.

It is. I think so. I think it is, too.

I know it's I think we can tighten it.

This is a good way to kind of go into my new album.

But there is a bit of everybody who

is discovered and gotten famous by or gotten discovered by

a certain genre that they want to break out and be like, man,

I don't want to be in the jam.

So I think there's a little bit of people holding back on labels.

Maybe it's not as hot because it's not as popular now.

When you were getting into it, it was hot, hot, hot.

It still has got its niche, but it's not as hot as it was when you were getting it.

Is it more about having a label or about jam band?

I think it's a label.

Yeah, I played with that.

Nobody likes to be labeled.

Exactly. And then you feel like you can't do your thing.

I played with Tapers Choice, which is a new band, and it's these indie rockers,

a guy from Vampire Weekend and some other indie rockers.

And they they said, hey, what do you want to play?

And we were all open to playing wherever you want to play.

It's like, great. I want to play, you know, Vampire Weekend.

I want to play Death Cab for Cutie, blah, blah, blah.

And they're like, no, no, no, no.

That's what we do all the time.

We want to do the Almond Brothers and Grateful Day.

And I'm like, dude, no.

When the two worlds come together, they wanted to break out of their box.

And I wanted to break out of my box, but you had to figure out a way to meet in the middle.

It was really interesting.

So I think even those guys don't want to be.

I'm glad you brought that up, because that was one of my questions,

because you have played with so many people.

How does that happen?

Well, in the bigger picture, if you're talking about like playing with

within string cheese and playing with all the incredible artists we've played with,

that's always been our management putting us together outside of a box.

And I'm not really like Doobie Brothers.

That kind of fits in our world.

But we did.

We did a lot of strange collaborations,

and it's usually management that puts us in that situation.

And then we feel a little nervous about it, but then it always works out.

Who we play with, I'm trying to think, from the Fugees.

Killing me softly with his song.

Lauren Hill.

Oh, yeah. We did Lauren Hill incident.

Good pull, Ross.

And so that was like, whoa, totally different worlds.

But that came together really well.

We think about what who we play with.

We play with Mike Posner, who was a DJ the night before.

So it's just a matter of kind of connecting with them, a band.

Like sometimes management, like I said, can put this together.

But it comes down to the artists speaking to each other and be like,

that doesn't really work. Can we try something new?

So it's a really back and forth between the artist.

The amount of collaborations that string cheese have done over the years

is quite remarkable.

That is commonplace in the music industry these days.

Not so much 20, 25 years ago.

This is the What Podcast on Bonnaroo Radio.

He is Kyle Hollinsworth, keyboard player for String Cheese Incident.

And the Kyle Hollinsworth band released a new record in 2026.

All right. So that leads to your new record.

What was your intent?

What were you? Why now?

What was I thinking? Right.

What were you thinking?

And I can't wait to ask about the song about your daughter.

Like, what were you thinking? Because, I mean, that had to.

So that's a touchy one, man.

I haven't she doesn't know it exists yet.

So you heard it here first.

So it was so after I had an album called 2020, which came out, which was

this can be a great year.

Twenty twenty. Not so much.

We all thought that.

So then I started kind of stepping back and doing some more writing.

And I was going to do singles.

I was like, this is fine. This is great time.

I'm not on tour. I just dropped some singles here and there.

And I did a drop one or two.

But then as I was writing, I started seeing like the

the horizon of a whole album coming together.

I didn't know what the album was going to be called.

Kind of jumped around different styles.

Like you mentioned, a little Paul Simon, you know,

I was thinking a little all my brothers and a couple of tunes.

But then I wrote the song All We Are, which was the title track.

And because I was listening a lot to a death cab for QD,

it's a little more indie bands.

And that's it. That's a great title for an album.

Let's figure out a way to make all these songs kind of be the breath

or to speak to all we are throughout the whole album.

And it took a while. I had to kind of redo some lyrics.

I had to think about how it all would tie together.

And the funny thing about all we are, it was so different that I said, OK,

let's push this to the end, the album,

then the management and all the record company was like, no, that's cool.

And so different than what a lot of jam bands are doing.

And different for you.

Why don't you lead with that?

I was like, that's kind of scary.

You know, but they decided they sort of I decided in the end

to try to do something out of the box.

So all we are is a little bit more.

Longer breath.

I wanted something that was sonically interesting.

I wanted something with long vowels.

Let's pattern like I want to sing quickly over funk songs.

I wanted long eyes wide, like long open vowels.

And then I wanted the rock in the middle.

And it's not going to focus focus on keys.

It's going to focus on songwriting more so.

Yeah. So then that's kind of the scope over the album began.

That's a lot of thought process into just some new music.

And I and it is over thought. Yes.

No. Well, I'm the king of overthinking.

I'm curious when you mentioned about your producers and the A&R guys

or whoever it is in your orbit.

Certainly a lot different nowadays than when Tom Petty wrote that song

back in the day. You know, I don't wear a single.

But how much do you trust and rely on the people around you,

producers and those types, when you're putting together an album that

let's face it, you didn't write this expecting to be number one on the billboard.

Exactly. But you did.

You did write it expecting it to be liked by people

who are fans of you and cheese and all of that.

How does that collaboration work?

Well, that's it. So let's talk about that.

So, yeah, the rest, like the first track, I was thinking that could be cool.

Let me build, get some plays on where Vampire Weekend gets plays

or some a little bit off the track gets me noticed outside of the jam world.

We're speaking of that earlier.

Yeah. To kind of help me bridge and bring some new people in.

But the rest of the album is very friendly to the cheese fans.

I answer your question, I guess I'm I'm influenced by what they say.

But I have the final say.

It's different for string cheese when string cheese writes an album.

We all have to have this.

We all have our opinions and then we have to fight it out for whoever's right.

No, it's great to have a producer there.

In this case, I was the producer for the album.

So I decided what was going to happen.

The new record from the Kyle Hollinsworth band is called All We Are,

and it is available now.

Kyle is the 25 plus year keyboard player for string cheese incident.

And that is all I have for you from the What Podcast on Bonnarooo Radio,

one to one five FM, Manchester, Tennessee.

My name is Bryan Stone and I have mere seconds for this close of this segment.

I want to thank everybody in the Bonnarooo ethos for being who you are

and doing what you do, no matter what you do and who you are.

I've been coming to this festival since day one since 2002,

and it has changed my life in so many different ways.

Enjoy your weekend.

Enjoy your life.

Take care of yourself and everybody around you.

And thank you from the bottom of my heart for being a part of this festival

and listening to this programing right now. Happy Bonnarooo.